2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[DanSchwartzgan]

Thinking about Josh Richardson, his extension and Bill Duffy today.  Came up with something interesting, though probably just coincidence.  

One of the issues with any plan that puts JRich on the street is it is probably poor agent management.  But, what location, besides here would be helpful to player/agent.  Turns out Duffy is the agent for both LaVine and Vucevic in Chicago (no, this doesn't end with LaVine in Dallas).  If there is a team where Duffy has the leverage to demand an extension for Josh, it is certainly Chicago.  They want LaVine to sign an extension this summer to avoid UFA in 22.

Chicago needs $14.2mm in cap room this summer to max LaVine and then extend him.  But, they are short.  Take out the $3.0 Arcidiacono NG and add in 4 holds and they have $12.43mm in space.  There are painful paths to more room through Young and Sato, but both are important rotation pieces.  This is where JRich comes in.  The difference between him at $11.615mm and Thaddeus Young at $14.19mm is $2.575mm.  Add that to $12.43mm and you have $15mm in space, just above the $14.2mm they need.

How would this work?  It would be a deal at or after the draft in the current season.  JRich would have to opt in (with the understanding Chicago will extend him later) and Chicago will have to guarantee Young's partial guaranteed 2022 contract.  The Mav's tried to do this with Ellis when he had a PO.  They also tried it with Jordan when he had a PO with the Clippers, but LAC wouldn't cooperate.   Young is in his final year at $14,190,000.  He's been very positive in +/- throughout his career, is a good facilitator and has a .599 TS% this season despite his lack of a three point shot.  His VORP and WS would be second highest on the Mav's if he were currently on the team.  In fact, he's an Advanced Stats darling with "A" grades in LEBRON, RAPTOR, Luck-Adjusted RPM and Box Plus Minus.  JRich takes over the slot Temple and Valentine currently occupy (non-shooting defensive wing).  So, both fit a positional need.

For Dallas, Young's salary would leave us with $20 million to throw around in FA or use in another trade.  With JRich and THJ gone, you'd need a facilitator who can also shoot.  In fact, the success of such a plan is completely dependent on how you fill this slot.  We already know we had interest in Fournier and Powell at the TDL.  That is also the estimate for Ball's price and the max you can give THT.  Or, maybe we combine someone with cap room to S&T into a bigger salary.  I realize some will view JRich for Young as a kiss-your-sister move.  But Young would add quite a bit to the front court rotation.  The key is the quality of player we get at the starting guard slot.  We would have the Room MLE for backup to DFS until Green/Bey can grow up some more.

KP/Powell/BAE
Young/Maxi/Bey
DFS/R-MLE/Green
FA/Brunson/Burke
Luka/Brunson/Terry

[cow]

Thinking about Josh Richardson, his extension and Bill Duffy today.  Came up with something interesting, though probably just coincidence.  

One of the issues with any plan that puts JRich on the street is it is probably poor agent management.  But, what location, besides here would be helpful to player/agent.  Turns out Duffy is the agent for both LaVine and Vucevic in Chicago (no, this doesn't end with LaVine in Dallas).  If there is a team where Duffy has the leverage to demand an extension for Josh, it is certainly Chicago.  They want LaVine to sign an extension this summer to avoid UFA in 22.

Chicago needs $14.2mm in cap room this summer to max LaVine and then extend him.  But, they are short.  Take out the $3.0 Arcidiacono NG and add in 4 holds and they have $12.43mm in space.  There are painful paths to more room through Young and Sato, but both are important rotation pieces.  This is where JRich comes in.  The difference between him at $11.615mm and Thaddeus Young at $14.19mm is $2.575mm.  Add that to $12.43mm and you have $15mm in space, just above the $14.2mm they need.

How would this work?  It would be a deal at or after the draft in the current season.  JRich would have to opt in (with the understanding Chicago will extend him later) and Chicago will have to guarantee Young's partial guaranteed 2022 contract.  The Mav's tried to do this with Ellis when he had a PO.  They also tried it with Jordan when he had a PO with the Clippers, but LAC wouldn't cooperate.   Young is in his final year at $14,190,000.  He's been very positive in +/- throughout his career, is a good facilitator and has a .599 TS% this season despite his lack of a three point shot.  His VORP and WS would be second highest on the Mav's if he were currently on the team.  In fact, he's an Advanced Stats darling with "A" grades in LEBRON, RAPTOR, Luck-Adjusted RPM and Box Plus Minus.  JRich takes over the slot Temple and Valentine currently occupy (non-shooting defensive wing).  So, both fit a positional need.

For Dallas, Young's salary would leave us with $20 million to throw around in FA or use in another trade.  With JRich and THJ gone, you'd need a facilitator who can also shoot.  In fact, the success of such a plan is completely dependent on how you fill this slot.  We already know we had interest in Fournier and Powell at the TDL.  That is also the estimate for Ball's price and the max you can give THT.  Or, maybe we combine someone with cap room to S&T into a bigger salary.  I realize some will view JRich for Young as a kiss-your-sister move.  But Young would add quite a bit to the front court rotation.  The key is the quality of player we get at the starting guard slot.  We would have the Room MLE for backup to DFS until Green/Bey can grow up some more.

KP/Powell/BAE
Young/Maxi/Bey
DFS/R-MLE/Green
FA/Brunson/Burke
Luka/Brunson/Terry

Can we get a tip in the form a SRP for providing the cap space and younger player in the swap?  I've always liked Young but really haven't kept tabs on him a few years.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Can we get a tip in the form a SRP for providing the cap space and younger player in the swap?  I've always liked Young but really haven't kept tabs on him a few years.

They have what is currently the 40th in the upcoming draft and three of them in 2022.

Young had a tough year last year under the failed former regime who didn't know how to use him.  This year he's had quite a resurgence.  You wouldn't want to play him with Powell, but he can certainly play with KP or Maxi or as a small ball center.  He isn't an over the top move, but there is a need for this slot on the roster (as evidenced by the Collins talk).  You have to be a pretty bold fantasy trader to fill the ball-handing off-guard slot and land a better front court guy.  There was reportedly a lot of interest in him at the TDL.  He lives in the area in the off season

[WillE]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1000...e-deadline

[ClutchDirk]

I tried to tell everyone Brunson was only available for AD...

[Chicagojk]

I am a huge Brunson fan but the "pretty much untouchable" is pretty laughable.

[StepBackJay]

I am a huge Brunson fan but the "pretty much untouchable" is pretty laughable.

I don't think so because the thing is what are you going to get back that's better? It's not like teams are going to offer you Jokic in return so in that sense he is a piece that you are going to keep. There are guys teams are shopping and guys they want to keep. The Fournier, AG's of the world were available but Brunson wasn't a guy being shopped.

[ItsGoTime]

I am a huge Brunson fan but the "pretty much untouchable" is pretty laughable.

If he gets paid “pretty much untouchable” money, I think we might be in trouble.

[ItsGoTime]

I don't think so because the thing is what are you going to get back that's better? It's not like teams are going to offer you Jokic in return so in that sense he is a piece that you are going to keep. There are guys teams are shopping and guys they want to keep. The Fournier, AG's of the world were available but Brunson wasn't a guy being shopped.

If the quote is correct in the thinking of our FO then no one (even our FO), will know what we are going to get back that’s better, because they will only listen if LeBron is offered. There are a TON of better players out there that are in the talent space between Jalen and LeBron.

[StepBackJay]

If the quote is correct in the thinking of our FO then no one (even our FO), will know what we are going to get back that’s better, because they will only listen if LeBron is offered. There are a TON of better players out there that are in the talent space between Jalen and LeBron.

You are correct except there were guys being shopped and guys that weren't. In one sense "everyone" outside of your stars are available but in a practical sense you are happy with some guys and just aren't going to trade them unless someone knocks your socks off which again is unlikely.

The guys being shopped were AG bc his time was up, Fournier bc his time was up. Vucevic was a guy I think that wasn't being shopped but they got such a good package from the Bulls that they pulled the trigger. Lowry was being shopped but only for an overpay it appears. Like there are guys on the move and guys that aren't. There was no reason to make Brunson available really because he's a great fit on a cheap contract. Furthermore, he's not an all-star like Vucevic so teams aren't going to call up Donnie offering him an overpay because why would they?

[Aussiebballer]

My concern is that isn’t he unrestricted when he hits free agency?
Though I also heard they could do a restructuring of he contact if they use cap space to increase and extend his deal.

[StepBackJay]

Chicago needs $14.2mm in cap room this summer to max LaVine and then extend him.  But, they are short.  Take out the $3.0 Arcidiacono NG and add in 4 holds and they have $12.43mm in space.  There are painful paths to more room through Young and Sato, but both are important rotation pieces.  This is where JRich comes in.  The difference between him at $11.615mm and Thaddeus Young at $14.19mm is $2.575mm.  Add that to $12.43mm and you have $15mm in space, just above the $14.2mm they need.

So Dan I can imagine why Chicago would do this altho Young is an important rotation player for them. I just don't think Young at 15 mil for J Rich is a great move for the Mavs. Mavs could do much better than that and I don't picture them wanting to spend even more big money in their frontcourt rotation.

Right now Mavs have 50 mil committed to KP, Maxi and Powell next season. That's around 45% of the salary cap. Unless you can unload Powell somewhere I don't think Mavs want to up that number to 65 mil or 58% of the cap. And we would be losing a guard/wing defender in the process.

Unless Mavs can land a budding star player like Collins, I don't think they are going to spend much money on the front-court unless and until Powell's money is dumped. Also with Powell playing better there is less urgency to do much. They might be able to bring back Melli on a vet min and feel okay about their big rotation.

In terms of agent management with J Rich I think he could just opt-in and there's no big issue really. It kicks the can down the road. Mavs could keep him or trade him. And opt-in and extend is interesting. I think J Rich is a flawed but useful player. If you move him to the bench and keep him on a value contract (because you couldn't find something better) that is not the worst thing in the world.

Circling back to the Young thing I haven't done the math but if they need to free up cap space wouldn't they just not guaranteed his contract? They could then negotiate a new contract or find a cheaper player.

[StepBackJay]

My concern is that isn’t he unrestricted when he hits free agency?
Though I also heard they could do a restructuring of he contact if they use cap space to increase and extend his deal.

Right so @"F Gump" has said you can't do that because he would go through waivers if you don't guarantee his contract. If that's the case then of course the Mavs wouldn't do that. I am concerned ab losing him in UFA when some team overpays him to be their starting PG.

[ItsGoTime]

You are correct except there were guys being shopped and guys that weren't. In one sense "everyone" outside of your stars are available but in a practical sense you are happy with some guys and just aren't going to trade them unless someone knocks your socks off which again is unlikely.

The guys being shopped were AG bc his time was up, Fournier bc his time was up. Vucevic was a guy I think that wasn't being shopped but they got such a good package from the Bulls that they pulled the trigger. Lowry was being shopped but only for an overpay it appears. Like there are guys on the move and guys that aren't. There was no reason to make Brunson available really because he's a great fit on a cheap contract. Furthermore, he's not an all-star like Vucevic so teams aren't going to call up Donnie offering him an overpay because why would they?

We know who was moved, we don’t know who was talked about. We know who was rumored to be talked about, some of those rumored names land between Jalen and LeBron. To act like we know what was offered is a bit off.

[StepBackJay]

We know who was moved, we don’t know who was talked about. We know who was rumored to be talked about, some of those rumored names land between Jalen and LeBron. To act like we know what was offered is a bit off.

I am trying to dispute the idea that the Mavs are so punch-drunk in love with Brunson that he's not available for anybody as good or better than him. I think the reality is he isn't available because you didn't think he was worth giving up for Aaron Gordon or some of these other guys that were actually available.

[F Gump]

Right so @"F Gump" has said you can't do that because he would go through waivers if you don't guarantee his contract. If that's the case then of course the Mavs wouldn't do that. I am concerned ab losing him in UFA when some team overpays him to be their starting PG.

The previous discussion was about making Brunson a free agent this summer, so that he would be RFA. As you note, that is NOT possible. But that's not the same thing.

A renegotiation is different than a new contract as a free agent, and a renegotiation for JB could be  possible (earliest date allowable would be in mid-August).

It's not easy, though. It would require the Mavs to have room under the cap. Then they would have to use some of that cap room to increase his salary in 2021-22 at a bigger number. Obviously this would be offered as part of an extension, which would then tack on more years as part of the deal. They also could start that extension (which would begin in 2022) at a much lower number than the renegotiated year, which might be helpful.

The problem is the fact that this takes 2021 cap room. In a summer where it appears they will be far short of the room they would need elsewhere, if they work below the cap, adding one more mouth to feed might be way out of the question. In that case, this couldn't even be considered - there's no way around "cap room" to pay for the increased salary in a renegotiation.

[dirkfansince1998]

What would it take to send Richardson back to the Heat in a sign&trade deal for Duncan Robinson. 1st? To much for me. Remaining 2nds? Yes please.

[F Gump]

I am trying to dispute the idea that the Mavs are so punch-drunk in love with Brunson that he's not available for anybody as good or better than him. I think the reality is he isn't available because you didn't think he was worth giving up for Aaron Gordon or some of these other guys that were actually available.

You are correct. Mavs didn't want to discuss him as part of a trade for anyone that was being made open to discussion by the other teams. Anyone who thinks the Mavs's stance somehow meant they thought he was better than any player on any other team just doesn't have a clue.

[ItsGoTime]

I am trying to dispute the idea that the Mavs are so punch-drunk in love with Brunson that he's not available for anybody as good or better than him. I think the reality is he isn't available because you didn't think he was worth giving up for Aaron Gordon or some of these other guys that were actually available.

Ok, but I’m trying to say that we can’t possibly know that the players you named were the only ones being offered, or would be offered if they were listening to offers for him, or even actually just gauging value (like they most likely did with KP). 


I was commenting on what was quoted in the article posted (true reporting or not).

[StepBackJay]

Ok, but I’m trying to say that we can’t possibly know that the players you named were the only ones being offered, or would be offered if they were listening to offers for him, or even actually just gauging value (like they most likely did with KP). 


I was commenting on what was quoted in the article posted (true reporting or not).

I know man but likely the guys that were moved or talked about (Lowry) were the main guys available. Maybe there's some secret Brunson-worthy player out there that was never mentioned in the media. I am not sure who that would be exactly.