2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Deron Williams was on the Ringer's podcast and delved into that 2012 offseason. He flat out said he was coming to Dallas and it was just a matter of feeling wanted. Remember he said he never felt comfortable on the Nets and they were losing big time and he always wanted to play for the Mavs.

He actually was house shopping and already bought a house in Dallas to prepare to move, but when Cuban and Dirk didn't show up to the meeting, and Nellie came in with no real concrete plan (Deron said "Nellie said to just trust us"), he went to the team that gave him an itemized list of what they were going to do the next 3 years.

It made Donnie look like an idiot.

Yikes....never heard that story

I absolutely do not trust this front office when it comes to wooing players in free agency.

[Tyler]

Went to SMU and is an award winning actor in his spare time.

Underappreciated comment. I see what you did there.

[DanSchwartzgan]

RE: Paying Old Men Lots of Money

I do not want the Mavs pursuing ANY big money guys over the age of 33. No. No. No.

I’m not an advocate of it either, but mainly because of the emergence of Brunson.  Absent that, I’d be thinking differently.

Paul and Conley are what, Top 30?  I get the concern about money three years down the road, but if they had an interest in coming here, they would be hard to pass up.  The issue is why would they have an interest in coming here...especially Paul (it will be interesting to see how Utah handles the LT implications of retaining Conley...who I really like).  I think Lowry is the easiest one to get and doesn’t have the agent conflict you have with Paul and Conley.  His play has tailed off a good bit.  First team to $50 million over 2 years gets him.  One thing that still intrigues me is I think you can play the cap-trick with the non-guaranteed third year and get him for less than the carnage it would take to get Paul or Conley.  

Realize if we take an anti-33 plus stand and don’t believe the tooth fairy will somehow make all of our perfectly timed order of operation dreams come true regarding Collins that we’ve wiped away all of the top ranked FA’s on the board this summer.  Gone are Leonard (Pipe Dream), Paul, Lowry, Conley and DeRozan and Collins.  Allen probably doesn’t fit and Oladipo is already in Miami (and a bigger injury risk than any of the old guys).  That wipes out the top 8 in most rankings.  Next up Ball, Drummond, Ibaka and Dinwiddie according to the Hoops Hype rankings.

[Jason Terry]

I think there is a spread between turning salary matching pieces into James Johnson and turning them into real NBA starters like Warren and Horford.  I think you can also make an argument that Wright (who is healthy) has more value around the league than post-injury Powell.  I’ll reserve the right to be proven wrong, but I don’t see Powell/Burke being the foundation of anything that brings back value (and I like Powell).

You’re probably right that maybe a starter like Warren or Horford is too ambitious(even if we add Green plus 2nds), but maybe just another backup or bad contract that fills a need. And i don’t think there’s any rush to make a trade since they are both useful for us currently and also signed for 2 more years. I guess a good comp would be the Melli(and Redick  ) deal. Add a 2nd rounder or two and possibly get a better fitting 9th/10th man

[BasketballJones41]

Makes them all look like idiots.

For Donnie and Cuban I agree. But I don’t blame Dirk in the slightest for that. He never was big into player recruitment, just not his thing. The big German wasn’t soft like like a lot of these players who need to be wined and dined in free agency.

[SleepingHero]

Any interest in buying low on French Frank or Zach Collins? They seem like prime reclamation projects to me.

I think the fact that Frank has played in less than 20 games this year and has been glued to the bench means his time in the league is nearing it's end.

Maybe he'll get a flyer on a bad team like the Cavs, but it's hard to be an NBA guard when you can't really score. 

Zach Collins is definitely more interesting to me. I think the Blazers will try and keep him though.

[StepBackJay]

For Donnie and Cuban I agree. But I don’t blame Dirk in the slightest for that. He never was big into player recruitment, just not his thing. The big German wasn’t soft like like a lot of these players who need to be wined and dined in free agency.

The Deron stuff is revisionist history. I read a lot of stuff and he was never going to give up money, never. Brooklyn gave him the most money. I am sure he would have liked Dallas had all things been equal but he was not giving up one cent in that contract.

[SleepingHero]

Makes them all look like idiots.

I will add that Deron later said stuff along the lines of, " I now see why Nellie said 'Just trust us', because of their track record and how good they've been for the last 2 decades and you see how they rebuilt so quickly, but at the time it's hard to commit like that with no concrete plan."

Further he was more slighted at Cuban being a no show than Dirk. Said he's still good friends with Dirk and was just slightly put-off that Cuban never showed.

---

The Deron stuff is revisionist history. I read a lot of stuff and he was never going to give up money, never. Brooklyn gave him the most money. I am sure he would have liked Dallas had all things been equal but he was not giving up one cent in that contract.

He literally said himself he was going to Dallas that offseason. Normally I'd agree with you but that was straight from the horses mouth.

---

Yikes....never heard that story

I absolutely do not trust this front office when it comes to wooing players in free agency.

https://www.theringer.com/2021/3/4/22314...-much-more

It's really a great listen if you have an hour. Raja Bell gets on my nerves sometimes but hearing the perspective of players is always interesting background.

[SamStetz]

The real discussion should be: who is the MLE?

I vote McDermott

[JamesConway]

I think the fact that Frank has played in less than 20 games this year and has been glued to the bench means his time in the league is nearing it's end.

Maybe he'll get a flyer on a bad team like the Cavs, but it's hard to be an NBA guard when you can't really score. 

Zach Collins is definitely more interesting to me. I think the Blazers will try and keep him though.

Zach Collins is a good name, unfortunately he’s about as durable as KP which makes it tough to justify him being a target for anything more than spare money.

[StepBackJay]

He literally said himself he was going to Dallas that offseason. Normally I'd agree with you but that was straight from the horses mouth.

I get that but I don't believe him. I don't believe everything a player says or Cubes or anybody else just because they say it. People in general don't like to admit they want the most money but in his case he did. At that time he could get max money and an extra year. He was not going to give that up under any circumstances.

[SleepingHero]

I vote McDermott

Ignoring the likelihood of getting these guys with the MLE for various reasons, my list right now (that's ever growing) is, Holmes, McDermott, OPJ, Dragic, Mills, Snell, Monk (RFA). 

Love McDermott to be that 2nd unit sniper. I think Melli is cementing himself apart of this team for the near future. I'm totally fine with a big man rotation of Kleber/Melli/KP/Boban/---. Powell as a 4th big isn't bad either but at 11 mil thats tough to swallow. 

Swapping Powell out with a guy like Holmes would be a sneaky coup of the offseason.

[Jason Terry]

I vote McDermott

McDermott, Caruso, Green, Mills, Dragic, Batum, OPj, Oubre, Bjelica, Holmes, Theis, Olynyk are some others

[HanspardShowerVoice]

I get that but I don't believe him. I don't believe everything a player says or Cubes or anybody else just because they say it. People in general don't like to admit they want the most money but in his case he did. At that time he could get max money and an extra year. He was not going to give that up under any circumstances.

I got the same vibes from JJ Redick's podcast when he was going on about how he went to New Orleans because he really wanted to play next to a defensive specialist like Jrue and how amazing the city is and blah, blah, blah.


I'm like ... dude, come on.. you wanted to go to New Orleans because  they offered you 2 years and 26.5 million.   The nice thing about going for the money is it's always easy to build  up a narrative about how it  wasn't about the money.

[StepBackJay]

Mavs priority (if they can't land a star-ish player of course) should be getting the most shooters they can get plus the best 2-way guard/wing they can get (again if possible). THJ is a shooter. JR is supposed to be a 2-way guard/wing but he is more 1-way.

As much as I would like an additional creator I am not 100% sure we need one. I like Patty Mills for example who can create some but is more of a scorer/shooter variety. I would be happy for example with Mills and DG (ex-Spurs) as my 6th and 7th guys. They are killers from deep and Mavs need those. DG can defend. J Rich's inconsistency is a real problem. Mavs can live with one guy like that (DFS) but we need a sure thing at the other spot. 

I think Brunson would be good to be that second scorer in the starting lineup and then your priorities are filling the 6th and 7th spot with the best shooter, 2-way guy or guys you can get.

We can probably live with the bigs we have on the bench minus WCS if Mavs need to spend their money and roster spots on other positions. Melli, Boban are cheap and Powell is sort of a sunk cost but fine in a smaller role so Mavs have the option to just roll with that and be okay there.

After you figure out 6/7 (the priority spots) and you are stuck with Burke as a backup guard/shooter then in 8/9 you can just get the best shooters you can get.

[JamesConway]

I got the same vibes from JJ Redick's podcast when he was going on about how he went to New Orleans because he really wanted to play next to a defensive specialist like Jrue and how amazing the city is and blah, blah, blah.


I'm like ... dude, come on.. you wanted to go to New Orleans because  they offered you 2 years and 26.5 million.   The nice thing about going for the money is it's always easy to build  up a narrative about how it  wasn't about the money.

Yeah the Reddick-stuff was baffling to me. I got no sympathy for what happened to him, dude took the money and is now publicly throwing the Pels under the bus and the Mavs too by saying he’d rather be somewhere else.

Thats the part where you just gotta suck it up and enjoy the paycheck. Not throw a pity party for yourself on your own podcast (where you’re also making money off from this whole thing).

The guy can’t wait to get out of here and isn’t even hiding it.

[cow]

Cuban needs to grow a backbone. No crawling back to players that rejected/insulted us. Though Conley used us for leverage, I think he is still a character guy and he wanted to be loyal to the Grizzlies. Guys like VAJ + JJ redick, Deron Williams or Danny Green are far better examples.

Beggars can't be choosers.

[Mavs2021]

For Donnie and Cuban I agree. But I don’t blame Dirk in the slightest for that. He never was big into player recruitment, just not his thing. The big German wasn’t soft like like a lot of these players who need to be wined and dined in free agency.

I know, but when it comes to (elite) player recruitment, to me that´s part of your leadership responsibility.

Maybe they just tried to keep Dirk away, so he didn´t see all the effort they put into their PPTX. Here is the full Deron presentation:

[StepBackJay]

I got the same vibes from JJ Redick's podcast when he was going on about how he went to New Orleans because he really wanted to play next to a defensive specialist like Jrue and how amazing the city is and blah, blah, blah.


I'm like ... dude, come on.. you wanted to go to New Orleans because  they offered you 2 years and 26.5 million.   The nice thing about going for the money is it's always easy to build  up a narrative about how it  wasn't about the money.

That's a perfect example. I am sure JJ did want to play with Jrue. But it's also true and he even said that they offered him the most money. So ya I "have a feeling" that if Jrue wasn't there he was going to still be signing with NO and have some other excuse why NO should move him 1 year later.

Again, I will say this a million times in polite society people don't want to admit they're about the money. I have no issue with JJ or Deron or anybody getting the most money but people don't like to say it out loud because it makes them feel like people will think they are shallow.

[JamesConway]

Yikes....never heard that story

I absolutely do not trust this front office when it comes to wooing players in free agency.

They’ve done everything possible to earn that level of distrust.