2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[loki]

I can't see any scenario where Dallas lands Collins without including KP in the trade. The rumor is that Atlanta wants a lottery pick, and Maxi (or anyone else on the roster) certainly isn't going to return that. 

But a KP for Collins deal leaves a huge hole at the 5, so you would have to get a stopgap center until the offseason. I think KP to Charlotte, PJ Washington/CHA's 1st going to Atlanta, and Collins/Zeller to Dallas would check all the boxes. 

You would have to max Collins in the offseason which is somewhat risky, but I don't have the same long term injury concerns with him as with KP. It would also open up a huge amount of cap room to fill out the rest of the roster since Collins only has a cap hold of $12.4m. To throw out some possibilities, you could re-sign THJ for $15m, give Lowry $30m (apparently what he wants, not saying it will take this realistically), and still have room to sign someone like Holmes for another $12m. 

Doncic/Brunson
Lowry/THJ
DFS
Collins/Kleber
Holmes/WCS

To me that's a much more effective lineup on both sides of the ball. You have a secondary playmaker who can defend and rim rolling threat in the starting lineup. You can go small with THJ at the 3 to jumpstart the offense. And you don't have the same glaring weakness in P&R defense that you do with KP.

[KillerLeft]

Do the opponents leave him wide open on the three? Because this is the only thing that is important. If defense leaves him wide open, than he kills spacing and can only play as on ball guard. But I could assume he knows how to punish defense if they leave him wide open and so defense stays honest - spacing is still there. As I said, didn't see SA enough to judge.

I'm not a SA expert, either, but I watched them/him enough over the years to know that they give him a CRAZY amount of space when he has the ball. Always going under, etc. It's why Toronto couldn't make it work with him, and why I believe he has been a disappointment in SA (mostly). I don't really know how often he has played off ball in SA, so perhaps his catch and shoot range is better than his pull-up range. We'll have to watch closely soon.

[KillerLeft]

LeBron James is the greatest point forward in the history of the game, and at the end of the day he's always been at his best playing next to another ball heavy guard ... be it prime Wade, or Kyrie, or playoff Rondo.    The times when LeBron in the playoffs is mortal when defenses know that he's the only on ball threat in the game (which is why the Lakers put a priority in getting Schroeder).    It's just too rudimentary way to play basketball against high level defenses when they have long stretches to gameplan and prepare in a 7 game series,  like the Harden Rockets found out.

Preaching to the choir, my guy. 

During last year's playoffs, I was ALL OVER THIS. Every single team who made it to the second round (including Houston, even) had more competent ball-handlers on the floor than the Mavs. Secondary playmaker was my title for awhile, before @"ItsGoTime" started getting cute with the title edit tool. 

But, it can't be just anyone. We've seen DSJ, Wright and now Richardson struggle to fit into this type of role next to Luka. It has to be someone really good at playing off-ball, too. 

I made this point awhile back, but every time you lock one player into place, the target for who fits next to them gets a little smaller, imo. The more rotation players you have written in pen, the more specific your needs get as to who can actually make the team better. I totally agree with your point. Playoff defenses will find a way to take Luka out of important possessions, and the Mavs MUST have a group on the floor who can take advantage of the resulting 4 on 3 situation. This is why I believe they wanted Kemba Walker.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Preaching to the choir, my guy. 

During last year's playoffs, I was ALL OVER THIS. Every single team who made it to the second round (including Houston, even) had more competent ball-handlers on the floor than the Mavs. Secondary playmaker was my title for awhile, before @"ItsGoTime" started getting cute with the title edit tool. 

But, it can't be just anyone. We've seen DSJ, Wright and now Richardson struggle to fit into this type of role next to Luka. It has to be someone really good at playing off-ball, too. 

I made this point awhile back, but every time you lock one player into place, the target for who fits next to them gets a little smaller, imo. The more rotation players you have written in pen, the more specific your needs get as to who can actually make the team better. I totally agree with your point. Playoff defenses will find a way to take Luka out of important possessions, and the Mavs MUST have a group on the floor who can take advantage of the resulting 4 on 3 situation. This is why I believe they wanted Kemba Walker.

Really, the more time  goes by I just hope for the Mavs sake that Brunsen can grow into that role, because finding that skillset in someone who isn't 1000 years old (Lowry, Conley), is really hard and/or really expensive.    When Oladipo is turning down 2/$45 and Fred Valvleet is giving a hometown discount for 4/85, that tells you what the market supply and demand dynamics are for that skillset.  

[ItsGoTime]

before @ItsGoTime started getting cute with the title edit tool. 

That is Clutch, not me. I'm the evil title changer cause of the awards going to people who win the end of year predictions.

[KillerLeft]

That is Clutch, not me. I'm the evil title changer cause of the awards going to people who win the end of year predictions.

Tbh, I changed your title to "Evil Title Changer"...not Clutch. Are you telling me you are NOT the person who has been putting "Tobias" into every version of my title? If so, the hunt continues.

[omahen]

Since our center line is really bad, I would seriously consider trading for Horford. He only has one season left after this one (nice expiring to have) and he would certainly provide vet leadership. I would not pay FRP, but if couple of seconds are ok I would send Powell and Johnson packing.

Assuming there is no super star trade on the table.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Is this because you're still trying to pair an inside player (roll guy) with Porzingis? Because I honestly don't think that's what he wants anymore. It's part of why I've been so out on him.

I’m mainly pointing out that Markkanen is a poor fit with KP, but probably would be just fine next to Wiseman.

Actually, I’m not sure what a good fit with KP looks like. We had a historically fantastic offense when KP played alongside healthy Powell last year.  But, someone who plays the roll-man role as well as Powell once did hurts our superstar’s numbers.  So, then what.  A smaller more perimeter oriented guy who stands in the corner on O?.  But, who cover’s Anthony Davis in the post?  Neither KP nor the DFS clone in that alignment.

My point is that a more traditional big like Wiseman might make roster construction easier.

[StepBackJay]

Since our center line is really bad, I would seriously consider trading for Horford. He only has one season left after this one (nice expiring to have) and he would certainly provide vet leadership. I would not pay FRP, but if couple of seconds are ok I would send Powell and Johnson packing.

Assuming there is no super star trade on the table.

I would like Horford assuming we are dumping Powell in the process. Mavs are so obsessed with cap space though that I don't think they will do it. They will look for a cheaper solution that they think is "just as good."

[Kammrath]

Wiseman might make roster construction easier

If the Mavs think Wiseman (50.4 percentile as pick and roll man, 1.11 PPP) can become an elite roll man then I am ALL IN on acquiring him. I think a defensively versatile big man who can be elite in the pick and roll with Luka is what you want as your 2nd pillar on this team. Hence why I wanted the Mavs to go all in on Gobert this summer.

[KillerLeft]

I’m mainly pointing out that Markkanen is a poor fit with KP, but probably would be just fine next to Wiseman.

Right, so I agree with the thinking in the rest of your post, all the way up to the head scratching. Like, every word. 

So, what is the thinking with the above statement? Please help me. Are you thinking they're a bad fit defensively?

[KillerLeft]

If the Mavs think Wiseman (50.4 percentile as pick and roll man, 1.11 PPP) can become an elite roll man then I am ALL IN on acquiring him. I think a defensively versatile big man who can be elite in the pick and roll with Luka is what you want as your 2nd pillar on this team. Hence why I wanted the Mavs to go all in on Gobert this summer.

I can't predict whether he'll have Gobert potential, because nobody can. But, I feel like he, like Gobert, has an incredible and insanely rare combination of size and mobility.

[ItsGoTime]

Tbh, I changed your title to "Evil Title Changer"...not Clutch. Are you telling me you are NOT the person who has been putting "Tobias" into every version of my title? If so, the hunt continues.

Honestly I haven’t looked around much to see what I can and can’t do on the site. So no, that wasn’t me!

[StepBackJay]

I can't predict whether he'll have Gobert potential, because nobody can. But, I feel like he, like Gobert, has an incredible and insanely rare combination of size and mobility.

I saw player comps as like DAJ or Whiteside in their prime as his floor which is still really good. People on this board hate those players but they were really good in their prime. Wiseman has a jumper and I think more offensive skill generally that gives him a higher ceiling.

It's hard for me to picture the Mavs having access to any other young star better than Wiseman given where Golden State is. Collins has some star potential altho you are also going to have to pay him. With Wiseman you get another 3 years on his rookie deal which means you have cap space to spend on other positions in the meantime.

[Fuerza1]

Preaching to the choir, my guy. 

During last year's playoffs, I was ALL OVER THIS. Every single team who made it to the second round (including Houston, even) had more competent ball-handlers on the floor than the Mavs.

But, it can't be just anyone. We've seen DSJ, Wright and now Richardson struggle to fit into this type of role next to Luka. It has to be someone really good at playing off-ball, too.

https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arcpubl...TQHFRY.jpg

[cow]

https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arcpubl...TQHFRY.jpg

Defenses licking their chops.

[StepBackJay]

https://dmn-dallas-news-prod.cdn.arcpubl...TQHFRY.jpg

Well at least Donnie had *one* good draft in the last few years.

[Fuerza1]

Defenses licking their chops.

Or shaking in their boots (throwback). Brunson is Luka's best defensive pairing this season. Fact.

The on-court Doncic-Brunson pairing this season limits opponents to an average of 105.5 points per 100 possessions — 7.8 lower than the Mavericks’ team defensive rating (113.3). 

“He’s a great player,” Doncic said. “It’s easy to have chemistry like that.”

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/maveri...en-better/

[cow]

Or shaking in their boots (throwback). Brunson is Luka's best defensive pairing this season. Fact.

The on-court Doncic-Brunson pairing this season limits opponents to an average of 105.5 points per 100 possessions — 7.8 lower than the Mavericks’ team defensive rating (113.3). 

“He’s a great player,” Doncic said. “It’s easy to have chemistry like that.”

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/maveri...en-better/

Watch the Philly game.  That's what good teams will do to them.  Fact.

[StepBackJay]

That Philly defense is suffocating. I am not worried ab that. Mavs play them what like twice a year?