2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[ItsGoTime]

So is Collins the right guy to bring in with KP? I mean, are we talking about really needing someone like Markannen next to KP to be the floor spacer only? That sounds like what KP wants in all honesty. The players that can play with KP, for him to be happy with his role, is really dwindling. That may be a good thing if we can get the specific player that works best, because we pretty much now know who that player is. Honestly, is Kleber that perfect guy?

[KillerLeft]

So is Collins the right guy to bring in with KP? I mean, are we talking about really needing someone like Markannen next to KP to be the floor spacer only? That sounds like what KP wants in all honesty. The players that can play with KP, for him to be happy with his role, is really dwindling. That may be a good thing if we can get the specific player that works best, because we pretty much now know who that player is. Honestly, is Kleber that perfect guy?

Collins can shoot, too. 

I think the value of Collins is that he can do Powell's thing while paired with Kleber (and sometimes with KP) as well as doing Kleber's thing when paired with KP, Powell or WCS, all of whom Kleber can obviously play, too. 

The dream for me is to have KP/Kleber/Collins and either Powell or WCS in place when the dust clears. Front court makeover finished. It might not be possible, as Dan says, but the Mavs have an excess of valuable guards to offer, as well as the warm bodies of Johnson or either WCS or Powell. There might be a way, and if not, I think I'd find a different toy to buy.

NOTE: DFS is literally the only SF on the roster who's ready to play winning basketball now, so if he's outgoing that also creates a problem.

[omahen]

So is Collins the right guy to bring in with KP?

On offense I think yes. Not only can he roll to the rim (elite), he can also shoot (excellent) and he can post up. So several things KP can't do. I am not sure how they would look on defense though. Two unicorns who can't really defend their position well   Both bad perimeter defenders and too weak (KP) or small (Collins) to defend centers.

[KillerLeft]

I am not sure how they would look on defense though. Two unicorns who can't really defend their position well   Both bad perimeter defenders and too weak (KP) or small (Collins) to defend centers.

VERY valid concern, imo. 

But, (not trying to beat a dead horse) I'm not sure there's anyone on this side (the available side) of Giannis who would work with KP, defensively, especially the way he has been playing lately.

[Tyler]

One possibility: THJ+Maxi+Terry for Collins+Snell+Rondo (I would do it, Mavs can just cut Rondo).

Interesting. And I bet it would be not too hard to move Rondo to a 3rd team without cutting him. For example, to the Clippers for an expiring Lou Williams. 

Something like this does kinda make sense for all teams:

THJ, Kleber, and Terry to Atlanta (2 potential starters and Trae Jr.)
Collins, Snell, and Williams to Dallas (Collins and expirings)
Rondo to the Clippers (a much-needed PG)

Interesting to think about, at least. 

Luka/JRich/DFS/Collins/KP
Brunson/Green/____/Powell/WCS

Keep JRich and Collins, spend the MLE on the best available 3&D wing to back up DFS, and that's a pretty balanced young roster all around.

[ItsGoTime]

Collins can shoot, too. 

I think the value of Collins is that he can do Powell's thing while paired with Kleber (and sometimes with KP) as well as doing Kleber's thing when paired with KP, Powell or WCS, all of whom Kleber can obviously play, too. 

The dream for me is to have KP/Kleber/Collins and either Powell or WCS in place when the dust clears. Front court makeover finished. It might not be possible, as Dan says, but the Mavs have an excess of valuable guards to offer, as well as the warm bodies of Johnson or either WCS or Powell. There might be a way, and if not, I think I'd find a different toy to buy.

NOTE: DFS is literally the only SF on the roster who's ready to play winning basketball now, so if he's outgoing that also creates a problem.

So his role is the one that changes based on who is in the game with him? I wonder if he'll be good with that or upset like KP possibly was? Would he perform well like that is the main question.

[KillerLeft]

I wonder if he'll be good with that or upset like KP possibly was? Would he perform well like that is the main question.

Also a valid concern. Well worth considering. 

Every single discussion we have here leads me back to the same conclusion: KP is a dead end. We're trying to fit pieces in around him like he's Dirk - trying to cover for his weaknesses and preferences. Only, he's nowhere remotely in the same class as Dirk on the floor. Sooner or later, everyone is going to agree, I think, even though I hope I'm wrong.

[ItsGoTime]

Brunson/Green/____/Powell/WCS

Isn't that Brunson/LouWill/Green/Powell/WCS?

[omahen]

Keep JRich and Collins, spend the MLE on the best available 3&D wing to back up DFS, and that's a pretty balanced young roster all around.

Williams is a good idea, although I think his value is still bigger than Rondo. If both would be expiring, perhaps. Mavs would need to send a bit more to Clippers imho. I really don't know what Atlanta was thinking when they gave Rondo 15 mil...

We could just resign Snell, he is a decent bench piece. 

So, who will make that call to Schlenk?

[ItsGoTime]

even though I hope I'm wrong.

WHEN that happens, everyone will agree you're wrong!!!!!!


Either way, everyone agrees! 

[Tyler]

Isn't that Brunson/LouWill/Green/Powell/WCS?

For sure. I was just thinking ahead to next summer when Sweet Lou is a FA and may not be a priority to keep.

[KillerLeft]

If you give the MLE to Williams, doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of keeping Brunson out of these hypothetical deals? I mean, if Brunson is here past this trade deadline, my goal for him would be first guard off the bench, 25-30 minutes per. Maybe even starting next to Luka.

[Tyler]

If you give the MLE to Williams...

To be clear, I left the blank because there's no way I give the MLE to Lou Williams. In this trade, I'd see him as filling in off the bench this year and moving on to another team over the summer.

[KillerLeft]

THJ, Kleber, and Terry to Atlanta (2 potential starters and Trae Jr.)
Collins, Snell, and Williams to Dallas (Collins and expirings)
Rondo to the Clippers (a much-needed PG)

Interesting to think about, at least. 

Luka/JRich/DFS/Collins/KP
Brunson/Green/____/Powell/WCS

Keep JRich and Collins, spend the MLE on the best available 3&D wing to back up DFS, and that's a pretty balanced young roster all around.

I would definitely do this, if you were able to switch THJ and Richardson. But, like I proclaimed yesterday, I think the team's recent choices have made it clear that there isn't really a way for them to play both Powell and WCS consistently, so I'd immediately start looking for a backup caliber big who could space the floor. A Kleber replacement, basically. I think that's what's missing from your lineup above. I think between DFS, Luka (with two other guards on the floor) and (year 2) Green, you've got the 3 covered.

---

To be clear, I left the blank because there's no way I give the MLE to Lou Williams. In this trade, I'd see him as filling in off the bench this year and moving on to another team over the summer.

Yeah, sorry - my mistake. Reading some of this too quickly.

[Scott41theMavs]

I think any trade proposal for Collins from the Mavs that doesn't include KP is going to get outbid. If you're giving up KP for Collins, you have to get some other moveable pieces back, because now you need a center as well as an additional playmaker. That might involve a third and even fourth team as some have suggested.

KP and Collins together is a nice dream if your name isn't Killer Left, but I just don't see it as a reasonable possibility. At this point, obtaining Collins and one or two other key pieces likely means that all of our big-minute guys outside of Luka are gone by the trade deadline, and that it's a completely lost season (you're welcome, Knicks), but hopefully with a brighter future.

Edit: to clarify, I retract my KP + Brunson for Collins + Capela proposal because 1) Publicly announcing Collins's availability will spark a bidding war, and 2) as noted above, I underestimated Capela's value to the Hawks, with the result that any such trade would involve us also shoving in more sweeteners than we could afford (as I've said, still need a playmaker!). Moreover, if Collins and Capela is an issue there, why bring it here?

[KillerLeft]

KP and Collins together is a nice dream if your name isn't Killer Left, but I just don't see it as a reasonable possibility

I mean...it's better than either of them without the other, so I'd be willing to try it. 

But yeah, I'd happily take Collins and move forward, if allowed to choose between the two.

[Scott41theMavs]

But yeah, I'd happily take Collins and move forward, if allowed to choose between the two.

We knew that. 

[KillerLeft]

Question about snell for those who're familiar:

Is he more or less equipped than Luka/DFS to play minutes at the 4?

[Scott41theMavs]

How about KP for Collins+, and then throwing all of the assets we can at a trade for Fournier and Vucevic?

[KillerLeft]

How about KP for Collins+, and then throwing all of the assets we can at a trade for Fournier and Vucevic?

Man, Orlando is another team I can't peg, just like Chicago. I can't tell if they're buyers or sellers.