2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

Love Lowry but we need THJ's shooting too.  Tough to salary match.

I think I'd still do it depending on the price in terms of assets we'd have to send along.

[SleepingHero]

Yeah, but Toronto would have to cut three guys to make this trade work. I guess you would have to include more teams. If Toronto is after Drummond you could perhaps make a three team deal as Cleveland doesn't really need Lowry.

Good point.

Here's a quick adjustment I did on the trade machine

CLE: Burke/WCS/Norman Powell
TOR: Drummond/Johnson/Brunson
Mavs: Lowry

Wait, pretty sure CLE is over the roster limit (though they could just waive the min guys if they wanted)

[omahen]

only want Brunson in exchange

Brunson is a good player, able to play for a win now team. But he is somehow redundant with Mavs playing mostly behind Luka. Clippers desperately need a PG and he could be a good and cheap solution for them. It all depends how they see Brunson. If they like him, the trade is possible. If they think he is meh, trade will not happen. Same with Lowry ideas - if Toronto doesn't like Brunson, we are very unlikely partners.

[SleepingHero]

ame with Lowry ideas - if Toronto doesn't like Brunson, we are very unlikely partners.

Obviously but we're assuming that TOR does like Brunson to even play ball.

And to be fair Brunson is putting together a heck of a season. 50/40/90 playing some solid ball as a backup showing flashes he can be a lot more if he had a bigger role.

He'd never get that role here because of Luka. Might as well try and flip him into a win-now piece.

[Hypermav]

I really like Lowry short term but if THJ is still here, are they both in the closing 5?

Luka
Lowry
THJ
Maxi
KP

Hate to give up Brunson as well.

DFS or JRich?

[omahen]

I really like Lowry short term but if THJ is still here, are they both in the closing 5?

Good point. I guess it gives us options. You can go super defensive with Richardson or more dangerous offensively with THJ. Or even Luka-Lowry-THJ-Richardson-KP if opponent is appropriate.

[Omega_Supreme]

Obviously but we're assuming that TOR does like Brunson to even play ball.

And to be fair Brunson is putting together a heck of a season. 50/40/90 playing some solid ball as a backup showing flashes he can be a lot more if he had a bigger role.

He'd never get that role here because of Luka. Might as well try and flip him into a win-now piece.

If I trade Brunson, I better get a superstar level player or someone that is close to that 50/40/90 is very rare. As soon as we trade Brunson we will regret it. The Mavs need to keep him and extend his contract.

[SleepingHero]

The Mavs need to keep him and extend his contract.

Brunson is about to be an UFA. Mavs have no leverage. It's obvious he's being pigeon-holed into a role that is smaller than a player like him deserves. If Luka wasn't a generational superstar point guard, Brunson would probably be a starter right now with Luka playing more off-ball.

But because of that, it means there will be a team next summer that will throw the bag at Brunson and the Mavs have no avenues to stop him from leaving. Odds are he'll be traded if he doesn't sign an extension solely because that's the correct asset management thing to do.

[omahen]

Brunson is about to be an UFA. Mavs have no leverage. It's obvious he's being pigeon-holed into a role that is smaller than a player like him deserves. If Luka wasn't a generational superstar point guard, Brunson would probably be a starter right now with Luka playing more off-ball.

But because of that, it means there will be a team next summer that will throw the bag at Brunson and the Mavs have no avenues to stop him from leaving. Odds are he'll be traded if he doesn't sign an extension solely because that's the correct asset management thing to do.

Exactly. Brunson is arguably Mavs biggest asset yet at the same time the one they can most easily sacrifice.

[DanSchwartzgan]

But because of that, it means there will be a team next summer that will throw the bag at Brunson and the Mavs have no avenues to stop him from leaving.  

Just clarifying...by "next summer", you mean 2022?

[Omega_Supreme]

Brunson is about to be an UFA. Mavs have no leverage. It's obvious he's being pigeon-holed into a role that is smaller than a player like him deserves. If Luka wasn't a generational superstar point guard, Brunson would probably be a starter right now with Luka playing more off-ball.

But because of that, it means there will be a team next summer that will throw the bag at Brunson and the Mavs have no avenues to stop him from leaving. Odds are he'll be traded if he doesn't sign an extension solely because that's the correct asset management thing to do.

I agree that Brunson has the skillset to run his own team but I do not agree that the Mavericks should trade him right now. The Mavericks still have time to negotiate a contract extension. I think Brunson could demand 8 to 14 million in the open market. The lower end of that should require him being a long term core piece and I am even okay with that on the higher end. 

I see Brunson as a long term core piece. I would be okay with paying him like a starter in that range. You also have the salary cap increasing so it would be a strong "NO" for me in giving up Brunson. The Mavs better be getting a starter in return if that happens. I mean a legit starting piece.

Lots of teams in the league have a hole for backup point guard and if the Mavericks let him walk they will be regretting it immediately.

[dirkfansince1998]

I agree that Brunson has the skillset to run his own team but I do not agree that the Mavericks should trade him right now. The Mavericks still have time to negotiate a contract extension. I think Brunson could demand 8 to 14 million in the open market. The lower end of that should require him being a long term core piece and I am even okay with that on the higher end. 

I see Brunson as a long term core piece. I would be okay with paying him like a starter in that range. You also have the salary cap increasing so it would be a strong "NO" for me in giving up Brunson. The Mavs better be getting a starter in return if that happens. I mean a legit starting piece.

Lots of teams in the league have a hole for backup point guard and if the Mavericks let him walk they will be regretting it immediately.

This. When it comes to the extension talks the best comparisation is Monte Morris. He signed a 3/27 deal. If the Mavs can sign Brunson for similar money I don´t see a reason why they shouldn´t do it.

[omahen]

This. When it comes to the extension talks the best comparisation is Monte Morris. He signed a a 3/27. If the Mavs can sign Brunson for similar money I don´t see a reason why they shouldn´t do it.

1. No one said we should just dump Brunson or let him walk
2. Team likely needs improvements to become a real contender. Brunson is an asset we can afford to "lose"

[SleepingHero]

Just clarifying...by "next summer", you mean 2022?

 

Yes I do. Not this upcoming summer 21', but the Luka Summer of 22'

[KillerLeft]

 
Yes I do. Not this upcoming summer 21', but the Luka Summer of 22'

This summer is the Luka summer. His rookie deal will be have another season left, but pretty sure he'll be extension eligible THIS summer. They'd be insane not to max extend him as soon as possible, so I assume it will get announced as soon as they're done with whatever other moves they make during the upcoming off season.

[omahen]

This summer is the Luka summer. His rookie deal will be have another season left, but pretty sure he'll be extension eligible THIS summer. They'd be insane not to max extend him as soon as possible, so I assume it will get announced as soon as they're done with whatever other moves they make during the upcoming off season.

Or sooner  His extension has no impact on 2021 cap space, because it only comes into effect in 2022.

[KillerLeft]

Or sooner  His extension has no impact on 2021 cap space, because it only comes into effect in 2022.

Well, for whatever reason, I noticed that most of the rookie max extensions got announced at the very END of this past off-season. Maybe because they're such formalities in many cases that the player goes on vacay right away, stress free?

[omahen]

EDIT: Are you sure about the above? Just checked a couple, and their CURRENT year shows the new salary, as if the extension replaced the last year (the option year) of their rookie contract.

I am sure. Look at Fox, who got the max extension

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/SAC.html

Or Mitchel

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/UTA.html

[SleepingHero]

I think Brunson could demand 8 to 14 million in the open market. The lower end of that should require him being a long term core piece and I am even okay with that on the higher end. 

There is no way Brunson gets anything less than 18 mil a year on the open market. A 22 year old averaging a 50/40/90 with flashes of something more is going to get money whipped by a team that is desperate, maybe multiple teams. Lets look at some recent contracts for young guards from desperate teams.

Fultz a 22 year old guard with 12/5/3 averages with terrible shooting- 3 year 50 mil extension, average salary is 16.5 mil a year

Rozier, 24 at the time with 7/4/2 averages- 3 year 57 mil contract, average salary of 18.9 mil a year. 

Malik Beasley 4 years 70 mil. Luke Kennard 4 years 64 mil. Derrick White 4 years 70 mil (the closest Brunson comparison). Schroeder 4 years 70 mil. 

And it goes on.

Brunson is closer to Derrick White/Dennis Schroeder than he is to Fultz and Roizer. There is no chance the Mavs can try and finagle a way to get Brunson on an uber value contract like 8-14 mil. And they can't match any big offer from another team due to Brunson's UFA status.

You're right the Mavs don't have to trade Brunson now, but his value is at an all time high and they cannot just let Brunson walk for nothing. Further I cannot see Brunson choosing to take a paycut and a lesser role in free agency to stay in Dallas versus going to be a starter somewhere else.

[dirkfansince1998]

1. No one said we should just dump Brunson or let him walk
2. Team likely needs improvements to become a real contender. Brunson is an asset we can afford to "lose"

I think Brunson on court value for the Mavs is bigger than his trade value. That´s why I mentioned the Morris example. I think his contract is a win for both him and the Nuggets. A backup/fringe starting PG won´t get a big contract. Most teams go with vet mins or rookie deals. Staying with the prefered team and in a familar system while also getting MLE level money is a great option for the player. Same for the team. It´s unlikely that the Mavs can get a better backup PG for cheap so they might as well give Brunson a deal in the 3/30 range.