2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[loki]

Bey and Hinton headed to the G-League bubble. Too bad they couldn't take Terry down there too

Hide him in some luggage?

[dirkfansince1998]

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/02/01/n...porzingis/

Basically just random writers making things up but maybe there is hope because non Mavs guys think that KP still has some value.

KP + DFS --> Turner + Lamb + McDermott + 2022 1st + 2024 1st

Sounds to good to be true.

[cow]

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/02/01/n...porzingis/

Basically just random writers making things up but maybe there is hope because non Mavs guys think that KP still has some value.

KP + DFS --> Turner + Lamb + McDermott + 2022 1st + 2024 1st

Sounds to good to be true.

DFS is worth a first rounder and I don't want to lose him.

[SleepingHero]

KP + DFS --> Turner + Lamb + McDermott + 2022 1st + 2024 1st

Sounds to good to be true.

If they still had Oladipo to include instead of Lamb then I'd be interested in that kind of trade. 

Alas they don't, so it's a non-starter to me.

[dirkfansince1998]

If they still had Oladipo to include instead of Lamb then I'd be interested in that kind of trade. 

Alas they don't, so it's a non-starter to me.

Wow. In my opinion the trade is way to good for the Mavs. Lamb is basically another JRich, THJ level player but he is coming back from an injury. McDermott is a great shooter. Something the Mavs desperately need. Turner will probably finish top 3 in the DPOY voting. Add two 1sts and it is a no brainer for me.

That easily beats what the Mavs gave up to get KP.

[RDB]

Wow. In my opinion the trade is way to good for the Mavs. Lamb is basically another JRich, THJ level player but he is coming back from an injury. McDermott is a great shooter. Something the Mavs desperately need. Turner will probably finish top 3 in the DPOY voting. Add two 1sts and it is a no brainer for me.

That easily beats what the Mavs gave up to get KP. 

This^^^

But I’ll believe it when I see it.

Turner may not be top 3 DPOY (could be) but is certainly very high.  Add in 2 players that have value in areas of need, 2 firsts, and eliminate some of the injury risk concerns on a max player and I would do it in a heartbeat.  Plus we have additional tradeable assets to continue to upgrade if they choose to go that route.

[SleepingHero]

Wow. In my opinion the trade is way to good for the Mavs. Lamb is basically another JRich, THJ level player but he is coming back from an injury. McDermott is a great shooter. Something the Mavs desperately need. Turner will probably finish top 3 in the DPOY voting. Add two 1sts and it is a no brainer for me.

I guess I see Turner as a more mid-level version of KP. I think Turner is one of the few bigs that'd pair well with KP btw, and would be interested in adding him alone.

Let me put it this way. I view KP's value at the top end worth 3 quarters. He's currently only worth 1 quarter since coming back. I see Turner as 2 dimes, Lamb+McDermott as a couple of nickels, and the FRP as nickels at best since they'd be late late firsts. 

So if KP stayed exactly who he was today, then yeah that trade makes sense for the Mavs, but I think it's a bit foolish to think the KP we see today is going to be the same KP in a month or so. And the KP at his best is better than all those players in that trade combined. 

Add on top that we're losing DFS, our swiss army knife defender who is also worth in my mind a dime, then you can see where I'm coming from.

[khaled1987]

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/02/01/n...porzingis/

Basically just random writers making things up but maybe there is hope because non Mavs guys think that KP still has some value.

KP + DFS --> Turner + Lamb + McDermott + 2022 1st + 2024 1st

Sounds to good to be true.

When was the last time the Mavs received a future 1st ) i.e not draft day trade) in trade? Even when they were rebuilding it didn't happen. 

[ItsGoTime]

Ya, if there was a way to give Maxi and a piece or two for Turner, that’s the trade I’d be really interested in. I think Turner next to KP would be an almost perfect fit, age and skill-wise. I also think Maxi is a pretty perfect fit next to Sabonis.

We would have to give up more than Maxi in that trade, just not sure how much more.

[KillerLeft]

Ya, if there was a way to give Maxi and a piece or two for Turner, that’s the trade I’d be really interested in. I think Turner next to KP would be an almost perfect fit, age and skill-wise. I also think Maxi is a pretty perfect fit next to Sabonis.

We would have to give up more than Maxi in that trade, just not sure how much more.

If we're talking Turner, then I'd much rather put him next to Kleber. To me, THAT is the perfect fit.

[SleepingHero]

If we're talking Turner, then I'd much rather put him next to Kleber. To me, THAT is the perfect fit.

Maxi's perimeter defense is the biggest advantage he has over KP, but even still KP's rim protection is top tier. 

Both are good stretch 4's, hovering around 35-36%. 

Could go either way. I'd take KP if I had the choice, but in my dream scenario we'd keep both Maxi/KP and just add Turner. THAT is a PF/C rotation right there.

[KillerLeft]

Maxi's perimeter defense is the biggest advantage he has over KP, but even still KP's rim protection is top tier. 

Both are good stretch 4's, hovering around 35-36%. 

Could go either way. I'd take KP if I had the choice, but in my dream scenario we'd keep both Maxi/KP and just add Turner. THAT is a PF/C rotation right there.

I'm just not interested in KP playing with a center. I think it's a dead end. IMO, you either pair him with a 4, or you move him to some other team.

EDIT: AS A MAIN LINEUP

[SleepingHero]

I'm just not interested in KP playing with a center. I think it's a dead end. IMO, you either pair him with a 4, or you move him to some other team.

I figured in this unrealistic dream scenario Turner would play the 5 and KP the 4. 

Also the Mavs didn't look too bad last year with KP at the 5, even though we were ravaged by injuries then as well.

EDIT: Misread what you wrote. Hmmmm. Still, I think Turner and KP are so switchable downlow and on the perimeter they can both be an interchangeable 4/5. I don't know how well it'd work but theoretically it could.

[KillerLeft]

EDIT: Misread what you wrote. Hmmmm. Still, I think Turner and KP are so switchable downlow and on the perimeter they can both be an interchangeable 4/5. I don't know how well it'd work but theoretically it could.

Yes, it COULD work. The relative success of KP/WCS has proven that. 

I don't have a problem with building your roster in such a way that a super big option like that presents itself. I'd mark that in the "advantages" column. Flexibility is good. Where I take issue is building the roster in a way that the economics of how players are compensated makes you NEED that lineup to work. If Turner (or KP) was an MLE player and you could justify not closing with them when you didn't think the situation called for it, I'd be all about this hypothetical. But, since both are paid like stars, both expect to be out there. Even if one or both are super easy-going about their minutes and roles, that doesn't solve the problem, because the guy who's replacing them in the closing lineup is likely to be extremely underpaid. 

I just feel like the salaries matter, even beyond the obvious impact they have during the talent acquisition process. 

Having said all of the above, I actually think Turner might be a better player than KP, and I would've slapped someone who suggested that just two months ago. It's funny how perspective changes over time, so maybe I'm wrong about this.

[ItsGoTime]

Yes, it COULD work. The relative success of KP/WCS has proven that. 

I don't have a problem with building your roster in such a way that a super big option like that presents itself. I'd mark that in the "advantages" column. Flexibility is good. Where I take issue is building the roster in a way that the economics of how players are compensated makes you NEED that lineup to work. If Turner (or KP) was an MLE player and you could justify not closing with them when you didn't think the situation called for it, I'd be all about this hypothetical. But, since both are paid like stars, both expect to be out there. Even if one or both are super easy-going about their minutes and roles, that doesn't solve the problem, because the guy who's replacing them in the closing lineup is likely to be extremely underpaid. 

I just feel like the salaries matter, even beyond the obvious impact they have during the talent acquisition process. 

Having said all of the above, I actually think Turner might be a better player than KP, and I would've slapped someone who suggested that just two months ago. It's funny how perspective changes over time, so maybe I'm wrong about this.

I won’t believe Turner is better than KP unless I see another injury this year from KP (contact injury or not). At that point, for me, he would just be too unplayable and never able to reach his full potential. I agree that I would have liked to trade for Turner and Oladipo when Ind had both. I even believe I proposed such a trade this offseason. The trade that started this all is hyper dependent on Lamb being as good as 1998 said. If he is actually as good as JRich will be with us (closer to last game and preseason) then if the FO did pull the trigger on such a trade, I’d not poo-poo it right off the bat and be willing to see the fit.


McDermott is meh to me. Specialist bench player. The picks are also super interesting. Gets us back in a position to be opportunistic with a team that is finally ready to compete with the best of them with that 1 last perfect fitting piece...as long as we don’t have too much of the good roster outgoing in the rest of the package.

[Mavs03]

Otto Porter Jr...he's 27 years old...6'8" with a 7'1" wingspan.  He's averaging 12 points 6 rebounds 2 assists...shooting 44% from the field, 40% from 3 point land, 83% from the FT line in 23 minutes/game.  He's an unrestricted free agent.  I don't envision Porter staying in Chicago.

Would Chicago do Johnson, Powell and Terry for Porter?  Johnson is an expiring.  Powell is essentially a locker room guy and salary cap filler.  Terry is a young asset.

Starting lineup: 

Luka
J-Rich
DFS
Porter
KP

Bench:

Brunson
Burke
THJ
Kleber
WCS

Green, Iwundu and Boban rounding out the bench.

[KillerLeft]

Would Chicago do Johnson, Powell and Terry for Porter?  Johnson is an expiring.  Powell is essentially a locker room guy and salary cap filler.  Terry is a young asset.

They...MIGHT. It's an interesting deal, and one of the more realistic ones you come across around here, imo.

From the Mavs' perspective, if it works, you're better. If not, you get out from under Powell's contract. However, and I'm typing this with a straight face, I legitimately believe there's a possibility that Powell is the best player in that deal a year from now. 

I think Chicago would jump on the deal if OPJ had another year or two on that terrible contract, but he's expiring. For them to pull the trigger, I'd think they'd need to really like Powell and Terry.

[omahen]

Would Chicago do Johnson, Powell and Terry for Porter? 

3 for 1 trades are difficult to pull at TDL. Chicago has 15 players under contract so they would have to cut two to make the deal done. Sure they would not lose a lot by releasing Kornet and Valentine but still. I guess a pick instead of Terry would be more valuable.

[KillerLeft]

3 for 1 trades are difficult to pull at TDL. Chicago has 15 players under contract so they would have to cut two to make the deal done. Sure they would not lose a lot by releasing Kornet and Valentine but still. I guess a pick instead of Terry would be more valuable.

This is a really good point.

[ItsGoTime]

I'm the one who has said OPJ is not a 4, and I still believe that. He is much more overweight than I remember him being in Was, so there is that, but as he plays himself back into shape and gets to where he should be ideally (198 is his listed weight), he'd be lighter than DFS and less a 4 and more a 3. I myself think OPJ is an upgrade to DFS, especially if he gets back into shape. He for sure is what we want DFS to be on offense, just not so much on D, unless and IMO until he gets back to his optimal shape.

To me, he isn't the guy who is an enforcer type that we need next to KP. If we were to have Turner instead of KP, I think OPJ and DFS works. If we were to do the KP for Turner and Lamb deal, then follow it up with this OPJ deal, I think that would be a pretty deadly and ready to go team in the next couple years. 

Also, Powell COULD be the best player in the deal IF he returns to form and OPJ doesn't. If both of them are playing at their best, OPJ is for sure the better player.

Luka/Brunson/Burke
JRich/THJ/Green
DFS/Lamb/Iwundu
OPJ/Maxi/McDermott
Turner/WCS/Boban

That team looks pretty good to me, wouldn't be a favorite, unless one of JRich or Turner or OPJ became unbelievable talents and fully reached their potential. They have the ability to gell and make a great splash and with a 2011-like playoff run, would win it all.