2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

Number two on the board. He says it is risky to offer him max but adds "it only takes one".

Direct quote:

Oladipo’s strong start to his season and unrestricted free agent status is likely to put him in the coveted “Gordon Hayward” spot on most team’s boards: The best gettable free agent. Oladipo can extend his deal in Indiana, but talks so far haven’t gotten very far, and I don’t expect them to progress further because the most he can get in an extension is a starting salary at $25.2 million. If he keeps up his strong start to the season, he’ll crush that.

One potential plot twist is the possibility that the Pacers trade him before the deadline … in which case his new team is likely to be the one paying him in free agency. Oladipo’s maximum free-agent deal is four years, $145 million, while the Pacers (or whatever team has his Bird rights come summer) can go to five years, $196 million. It’s a major risk to fork out that kind of money on a speed guard with an injury history as he gets into his 30s. Yet, as we saw with Hayward this past offseason, it only takes one.

He is not getting Hayward money

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If it's going to cost over 25 per to get Dipo I am out on him. I would rather Mavs go in another direction.

[Omega_Supreme]

FUCK NO ON DRAYMOND GREEN sorry fellas...I do not think he is good outside of the Golden St. System.

I do like the Vucevic idea

If Zion and Adams can coexist in the frontcourt then so can KP and another Big.

Sadly though I feel like the Mavs are going to target Horford

[mvossman]

It sure looks like we will remain over the cap and re-sign our guys and/or whoever we trade for. Therefore there’s other options now available should that be the path we take

Any love for Myles Turner, Vucevic, Julius Randle, Harrison Barnes, Tobias Harris, Blake Griffin, Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Green? These are a few guys that aren’t talked about much. Could be cheap or even free

DAL: Vucevic

ORL: Johnson, Maxi, Terry and 2 second rounders

Don't see the fit with KP (both centers), and don't think this would be nearly enough to get him if it made sense.  Also, I'm generally out on any trade involving Maxi because I think he provides more value to this team then he is ever likely to fetch in a trade.

[KillerLeft]

If Zion and Adams can coexist in the frontcourt then so can KP and another Big.

A) Zion and Adams is a terrible, terrible fit. Pretty much everyone in the NBA community agrees.

B) Neither of them is really comparable to KP...or to Vucevic, for that matter.

[F Gump]

We simply have too many Dwight Powells. We need more Julius Randles. The balance on this team between NBA workers and natural NBA talent is too lopsided.

"Powell is even more mediocre since his injury" doesn't somehow prove that Randle would be worth having.

As Jerry West says, the easiest players to overrate are those who put up big numbers on really bad teams. "And Randle sucks too, despite the deceptively attractive stats" is probably the more accurate observation.

[SleepingHero]

He is not getting Hayward money

I honestly said the same thing about Hayward before he got Hayward money. Just takes 1 team.

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"Powell is even more mediocre since his injury" doesn't somehow prove that Randle would be worth having.

As Jerry West says, the easiest players to overrate are those who put up big numbers on really bad teams. "And Randle sucks too, despite the deceptively attractive stats" is probably the more accurate observation.

I generally agree with you that Randle is fools gold and he won't be putting up anything close here to what he's doing in NYK.

BUT. You also got to give him credit for still finding a way to be a scorer despite his one dimensional game. He's also not a bad passer. I'd be willing to experiment a flyer on Randle. Just not at a 20 mil price tag.

[SleepingHero]

Also just want to throw out that Facundo Campazzo has gotten barely any burn in Denver.

He's also not performing well at all. Just put up 0's across the board in 4 minutes of play tonight.

Curious because the Nuggets went after the guy hard in free agency. I wonder if they look to moving him, and if so do the Mavs try and get in on that deal?

[KillerLeft]

Randle's best game is going downhill with the ball in his hands. If you want to imagine what he'd look like in Dallas, watch Johnson, who does some of the same things. 

Personally, I like it as a change of pace wrinkle, but maybe not as a high-dollar starting cornerstone.

[omahen]

Also just want to throw out that Facundo Campazzo has gotten barely any burn in Denver.

He's also not performing well at all. Just put up 0's across the board in 4 minutes of play tonight.

I watched second quarter, which was probably all his minutes. CP3 was cooking him. They attacked him every possesion, most of them successful.

[Mavs2019]

Randle's best game is going downhill with the ball in his hands. If you want to imagine what he'd look like in Dallas, watch Johnson, who does some of the same things. 

Personally, I like it as a change of pace wrinkle, but maybe not as a high-dollar starting cornerstone.

Yeah. I think becoming predictable offensively is one of our biggest issues, therefore somebody like Randle or DeRozan with the mid-range would add some much needed individual scoring talent, but also some different attacking options, when Plan A doesn´t work.

Let´s not pretend the Heat 1st half wasn´t some ugly offensive crap either. We are way too reliant on the Rockets offense of all threes and FTs. Didn´t we always laugh at the Rockets and that it would never work in the play-offs, cause it´s too easy to stop.

[david75090]

GSW: Harden and Tucker

DAL: Draymond Green

HOU: James Johnson, Wiseman, Josh Green, Oubre, 2 Dallas 2nd rounders, 3 GSW 1st rounders

Who says no?

When is Draymond Green healthy? Healthy, he's a small ball center. On the downside of his career. Also, he's a mouth. The team would have to get more out his playing ability than the downside of his distractions. Don't see giving up assets to get him.

[omahen]

I honestly said the same thing about Hayward before he got Hayward money. Just takes 1 team.

If Oladipo stays healthy he will get max or near max money for sure, because almost one third of the league has plenty of cap space available. Assuming he wants the money and wouldn't go (for example) to Miami at a discount rate because he only wants to play there. He is the best free agent available in 2021 (not counting Kawhi and RFA Collins). Just to get the picture about FA class quality - next on the Hollinger list are Ball and Duncan Robinson.

[StepBackJay]

I would be interested in Dipo around the number he's at right now the 20-millish if its multi-year. If it's a shorter deal I would be fine with paying more. Otherwise I might like to look at other options. I don't think he's getting 30+ mil/yr or max.

[KillerLeft]

I would be interested in Dipo around the number he's at right now the 20-millish if its multi-year.

IDK, that's Hardaway/Hield money. If he was willing to play for that, someone would've traded for him already and gotten the ball rolling.

[DanSchwartzgan]

@"DanSchwartzman" what is Hollinger's read on Dipo and the money and market for him?

Sorry I didn't answer.  Still have family in town, so less board time than usual.  Thanks to Omahen for answering.

As to Oladipo, Danny Leroux has a piece today talking about players who are still eligible for an extension.  Certain extensions, but not all, have to be done in the off-season.  So, the piece today focuses on those that can still happen.  The list includes Dipo and THJ.  A couple others who get a lot of attention here are Fournier and OPJ.  JRich is mentioned, but he doesn't get a write up.  He can be extended in-season, but has to opt out of his 21-22 contract to do so.  Note that extensions can also be extend and trades.  My position on Dipo is I'd want the extension done at the same time as the trade.  Of course, that limits his deal to $25mm instead of the $28mm starting salary Hayward got.  Here is what Leroux said about each:

Victor Oladipo, Pacers

The 28-year-old can only receive a 20 percent raise up to a $25.2 million starting salary, but that could be enough for a deal to happen if he is risk-averse. However, it looks like Oladipo would prefer to hit the open market, at least for now.

Tim Hardaway Jr., Mavericks


It made sense that the two sides were not going to find common ground on a new deal if Hardaway opted out in the offseason because the Mavericks were prioritizing 2021 cap space. However, Giannis Antetokounmpo signing his extension potentially changes that dynamic since otherwise, Hardaway hits unrestricted free agency, though Dallas would have enough cap space to replace its starter if he chooses to leave.

Evan Fournier, Magic

Like Hardaway, Fournier made the right decision to opt in, but circumstances may have changed enough to open the door for an in-season extension. The Magic retaining both Markelle Fultz and Jonathan Isaac ahead of time gives Jeff Weltman a clearer idea of what they can spend without hitting the 2021-22 luxury tax. At the same time, that figure is preliminarily $10-15 million, which I would bet is under what Fournier is looking for, so him being risk-averse would be what opens the door for a deal.

Otto Porter Jr., Bulls

Porter serves as a great reminder that these negotiations can run until the league year turns over next summer because Arturas Karnišovas will presumably want to see if he can stay healthy before making an extension offer worth seriously considering. Still, there is a scenario where Patrick Williams looks more like a power forward, and Porter fits in as a rare floor spacer who can also defend his position. If that happens, the Bulls would be motivated to take him off the market ahead of time.

[StepBackJay]

IDK, that's Hardaway/Hield money. If he was willing to play for that, someone would've traded for him already and gotten the ball rolling.

I don't think THJ gets 20

[StepBackJay]

I was bullish on Hayward when ppl were acting like he was going to opt out to take a paycut. That was never going to happen. For Oladipo I mean I think he would need to be playing at an all star level to get close to max money.

I know Hayward got a lot but I just think he has more value than Dipo does. I could be wrong, there are always a few desperate teams (Knicks) that will do whatever. I would rather Mavs go in a different direction than overpay Dipo.

I could do a trade and extend around that 25 number depending on years.

[F Gump]

Oladipo is available, if you want to be the one to take all the risk. It won't be cheap, and you're going to have to pay him royally in the summer. But he could be moved.

However, the conversations about an extension, to avoid the risk of losing him in free agency, are fantasy like. Any sort of extension simply isn't going to happen.

The reason is well known. Oladipo expects to get a max deal in free agency, and is not interested in settling for less (unless he gets to free agency and no one is willing to pay it). A max deal with a new team brings him $145M in new money over 4 years, guaranteed.

But if he does an extension, he can only get about $100M from Indy (after which he could not be traded), or $50m from an extend-and-trade. That's not even close to $145M. You can't even begin to tempt him with an extension.

You would trade for him if you wanted to be the one team in 2021 that can pay him $150M or $155M, or more. But you won't avoid the risk of him walking.

And every report says Indy has consistently been demanding the sort of trade value that it takes to trade for an all-star player - you will get no discount because of his injury issues or because of the risk of free agency.

But he is apparently available, if you will pay the huge price and still take all the risk.

[KillerLeft]

I don't think THJ gets 20

Maybe, maybe not. My point was that what you’re suggesting for Oladipo, who you believe is a potential third star for this team, is equivalent to the *current* THJ/Hield deals. 

I don’t think that’s realistic, which is part of why I haven’t been interested in trading for him or targeting him in free agency. I think he‘ll either be overpaid or very unhappy by this time next year.

[cow]

I have a feeling Barton is getting moved by the TDL.