2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Kammrath]

Surely you're more intelligent than this post would indicate. My goodness.

Just observing that JJB and Lowry are about the same size and about the same age. I just don't see Lowry as fitting here when JJB was a GREAT fit and leader and he was just passed over. 

P.S. I am NOT saying Lowry isn't better than JJB in some stuff. But I think the role would be about the same considering the Mavs timeline.

[ItsGoTime]

Johnson PG, WCS as SF, Maxi at PF, KP at center - Kamms vision would be complete!

Bobi has shot a few 3's, Bobi for SG!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kammrath]

I would also add that Finley-Smith at the 4 was an infrequent occurrence and there is probably a reason for that.

DFS was basically a wash offensively regardless of where he played....but when he was guarding 4s he was MUCH worse defensively. Basically he is a below average defender against 4s and a very good defender against 3s.

[RDB]

then unless you feel Powell, Kleber or Johnson is good enough (I like them all) then THAT’s the hole.

I’m no analytics guru but after looking at some stats on NBA.com, I think KillerLeft makes a good point.  Looking at last years numbers with 2 players (Porzingis & either Powell or Kleber) and 5 player lineups with Poezingis and either Powell or Kleber as bigs, it seemed to me that pre injury Powell was clearly the better fit with Porzingis.  If that is the case, then 4 is probably the biggest need.  I would also add that Finley-Smith as the 4 was uncommon and there is likely a good reason for that.

[Kammrath]

I am posting in response to the future!

[RDB]

DFS was basically a wash offensively regardless of where he played....but when he was guarding 4s he was MUCH worse defensively. Basically he is a below average defender against 4s and a very good defender against 3s.

Sorry, I posted and for some reason it came out dark.   I tried to fix but ended up deleting and re-posting with the full comment.  I’m a newbie so patience is appreciated.

[omahen]

but when he was guarding 4s he was MUCH worse defensively.

Which is why is probably a good thing he is guarding SF/SG/PG and not PF. Luka takes care of those. And I bet Kleber will start against teams with strong and good offensive PF. Like Zion for example.

[Scott41theMavs]

Surely you're more intelligent than this post would indicate. My goodness.

Just observing that JJB and Lowry are about the same size and about the same age. I just don't see Lowry as fitting here when JJB was a GREAT fit and leader and he was just passed over.

P.S. I am NOT saying Lowry isn't better than JJB in some stuff. But I think the role would be about the same considering the Mavs timeline.

Sorry if my comment was offensive to you (per KL). I just thought JJB vs. Lowry was a pretty uproarious comparison. In response to your measured comment here, I don't think that Lowry's defense is hurt by his size in any way comparable to JJB. Lowry, regardless of age, is still a close-to-30-minutes-a-night-in-a-way-that-helps-you-win guy. That's sure not JJB's role at this point, so I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[Omega_Supreme]

I watched Julius Randle get a triple double a few nights ago. I cannot help but scratch my head and wonder why do we value good guys that are average players and pay guys like Dwight Powell.

Can anyone explain that to me

[Mavs2019]

I watched Julius Randle get a triple double a few nights ago. I cannot help but scratch my head and wonder why do we value good guys that are average players and pay guys like Dwight Powell.

Can anyone explain that to me

Because the Mavs like guys that WORK basketball. You need those guys like DFS, Powell or Brunson, but when nobody can throw it into an ocean, then it would also be nice to have those (allegedly) lazy or unconventional guys that just have some natural gift for basketball and can get you buckets.

Julius Randle has been begging the Mavs to sign him for years. He has a damn tattoo of the city on his arm.

You will still find people that will bring their advanced metrics book and argue that Dwight Powell is a better basketball player than Julius Randle, because of their analytics.

The Mavs rather have Dwight Powell average 6/3 with no turnovers or assists than Randle average 25/11/8 on 56/70/75 shooting, because he commits 5.0 TOPG and (allegedly) doesn´t make the right plays. Sometimes you need a little bit of TALENT and live with the chaos and unpredictability that comes along with it.

People praise Luka, because he got his TOPG down to 2.3 from a career 3.0. I say who the f*** cares. Steph Curry has a career 3.1 TOPG. LeBron 3.5 TOPG. Harden 3.7 TOPG. That comes with the territory. Stop trying to kill Magic Johnson and turn him into Chauncey Billups.

We simply have too many Dwight Powells. We need more Julius Randles. The balance on this team between NBA workers and natural NBA talent is too lopsided.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Hollinger put out a list of 21 FA's in 21 who he thinks will get more than the MLE (including JRich and THJ).  Below is the list and the write ups for the two Mavs:

Kawhi
Dipo
Collins
Lonzo
D. Robinson
Lowry
J. Allen
Drummond
Dinwiddie
Oubre
Graham
Markkanen
JRich
Trent
DeRozan
Barton
Fournier
THJ
Conley
Jones Jr.
THT

13. Josh Richardson, 28, SG, Dallas (player option): A defensive stopper with some offensive juice to him, I’d expect Richardson to opt out of his $11.6 million final season and seek a longer deal that pays him in the $15-20 million range annually. While he’s not a primary offensive option, he averaged 13.7 points a game last year and shoots 36.4 percent career from 3, and his defense is good enough to put him on the opponent’s best player every night.

That’s not a max player or anything, but it’s a solid starter. Even in a league that tends to overpay offense and underpay defense, Richardson has clear value and should be a “Plan B” target for every team that misses out on one of the top names above. That includes Dallas, which could easily pivot to re-signing Richardson if its loftier free-agency dreams don’t come to pass.


18. Tim Hardaway Jr., 29, SG, Dallas: Hardaway and Fournier are birds of a feather, as I’ve noted before: Both are 28 and coming off career years, both opted into their deals for 2020-21 and both offer shooting and shot creation at the cost of some defense. Both are also perceived as gettable, although in Hardaway’s case it’s the opposite scenario from Fournier.

Dallas has no luxury-tax issues, at least until Luka Doncic’s near-certain max extension kicks in in 2022, but the Mavs’ cap space dreams depend on Hardaway seeking a new address. It’s possible that nobody to Dallas’ liking is available and the Mavs run it back with Hardaway and Richardson above, but if not, Hardaway will be an attractive target as a shooter with a tolerable price tag. As with Fournier, I’d look for something around three years and $50 million.


Since he references Fournier in the THJ write-up, here's what he said about Fournier:

17. Evan Fournier, 29, SG, Orlando: Fournier gave one indication of his market when he opted in to $17.1 million this season rather than hit free agency. Even coming off a career year in his late 20s, Fournier has a market that is more likely in the $15 million a year range than anything that begins with a 2.
Nonetheless, teams will be monitoring him closely due to his perceived obtainability. Fournier is unrestricted, and the Magic likely pried themselves out of keeping him with extensions for Markelle Fultz and Jonathan Isaac. As a result of those deals, anything in eight figures for Fournier would push Orlando into the luxury tax.
Presuming Orlando doesn’t go 72-0 this year and run it back, that leaves two alternatives. The first is that he walks after the season. The second, more interesting one is an extend-and-trade deal. Fournier is extension-eligible, and any acquiring team would likely want to cement his rights beyond this season. The sweet spot would seem to be something around three years and $50 million.

[Jason Terry]

It sure looks like we will remain over the cap and re-sign our guys and/or whoever we trade for. Therefore there’s other options now available should that be the path we take

Any love for Myles Turner, Vucevic, Julius Randle, Harrison Barnes, Tobias Harris, Blake Griffin, Andrew Wiggins, Draymond Green? These are a few guys that aren’t talked about much. Could be cheap or even free

DAL: Vucevic

ORL: Johnson, Maxi, Terry and 2 second rounders

[Kammrath]

@"DanSchwartzman" what is Hollinger's read on Dipo and the money and market for him?

[Kammrath]

DAL: Vucevic

ORL: Johnson, Maxi, Terry and 2 second rounders

I am a Vucevic truther. And would be intrigued by him in the right circumstance. 

But with ORL off to a hot start with Vuc a huge part of that, I have a hard time seeing him sold off on the cheap.

[Jason Terry]

GSW: Harden and Tucker

DAL: Draymond Green

HOU: James Johnson, Wiseman, Josh Green, Oubre, 2 Dallas 2nd rounders, 3 GSW 1st rounders

Who says no?

[Kammrath]

GSW: Harden and Tucker

DAL: Draymond Green

HOU: James Johnson, Wiseman, Josh Green, Oubre, 2 Dallas 2nd rounders, 3 GSW 1st rounders

Who says no?

Very intriguing I must say.....

[Jason Terry]

I am a Vucevic truther. And would be intrigued by him in the right circumstance. 

But with ORL off to a hot start with Vuc a huge part of that, I have a hard time seeing him sold off on the cheap.

For sure. Trade market could be weird since 20 teams make the playoffs. Might not be much movement

[omahen]

what is Hollinger's read on Dipo and the money and market for him?

Number two on the board. He says it is risky to offer him max but adds "it only takes one".

Direct quote:

Oladipo’s strong start to his season and unrestricted free agent status is likely to put him in the coveted “Gordon Hayward” spot on most team’s boards: The best gettable free agent. Oladipo can extend his deal in Indiana, but talks so far haven’t gotten very far, and I don’t expect them to progress further because the most he can get in an extension is a starting salary at $25.2 million. If he keeps up his strong start to the season, he’ll crush that.

One potential plot twist is the possibility that the Pacers trade him before the deadline … in which case his new team is likely to be the one paying him in free agency. Oladipo’s maximum free-agent deal is four years, $145 million, while the Pacers (or whatever team has his Bird rights come summer) can go to five years, $196 million. It’s a major risk to fork out that kind of money on a speed guard with an injury history as he gets into his 30s. Yet, as we saw with Hayward this past offseason, it only takes one.

[mvossman]

Because the Mavs like guys that WORK basketball. You need those guys like DFS, Powell or Brunson, but when nobody can throw it into an ocean, then it would also be nice to have those (allegedly) lazy or unconventional guys that just have some natural gift for basketball and can get you buckets.

Julius Randle has been begging the Mavs to sign him for years. He has a damn tattoo of the city on his arm.

You will still find people that will bring their advanced metrics book and argue that Dwight Powell is a better basketball player than Julius Randle, because of their analytics.

The Mavs rather have Dwight Powell average 6/3 with no turnovers or assists than Randle average 25/11/8 on 56/70/75 shooting, because he commits 5.0 TOPG and (allegedly) doesn´t make the right plays. Sometimes you need a little bit of TALENT and live with the chaos and unpredictability that comes along with it.

People praise Luka, because he got his TOPG down to 2.3 from a career 3.0. I say who the f*** cares. Steph Curry has a career 3.1 TOPG. LeBron 3.5 TOPG. Harden 3.7 TOPG. That comes with the territory. Stop trying to kill Magic Johnson and turn him into Chauncey Billups.

We simply have too many Dwight Powells. We need more Julius Randles. The balance on this team between NBA workers and natural NBA talent is too lopsided.

I think the issue with Julius Randle is he is a terrible fit.  His offense is mostly ISO ball, and he clogs the lane without being a great vertical spacer.  He does not fit at all offensively with Luka and KP.  Add to that he is not a good defender, makes bonehead plays and costs nearly 20 mil a year, and there are a lot of good reasons he is not in Dallas.

[Kammrath]

Number two on the board. He says it is risky to offer him max but adds "it only takes one".

Thank you sir, appreciate it.