2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[KillerLeft]

If THJ was shooting 40% from 3 we wouldn't need him to go to the bench to get his shots.

I don’t agree.

My thinking (only 3 games in) is that the combo of Richardson, Luka and THJ is a little small. I feel like A) Richardson’s guard skills on offense and B) DFS’s shooting off of the catch complement each other enough to lessen the need for Hardaway to be in the starting lineup, whether he’s playing well or not. 

I REALLY think the team’s biggest weakness is the 4. I’m not married to DFS as a starter, but I’m not ready to give up on that, either, so I think giving him some time as the starting 3 is logical. If that works as I expect, this thing might be one starter (a 4 - either a very strong, long forward or a very quick, agile, smart big) away.

So, my thinking is that with either Hield or THJ should be a bench player. It’s only three games in, again, but if I still feel that way at the deadline, give me THJ.  OR, use THJ to acquire that 4, not to acquire the same type of player.

[omahen]

My thinking (only 3 games in) is that the combo of Richardson, Luka and THJ is a little small. I feel like A) Richardson’s guard skills on offense and B) DFS’s shooting off of the catch complement each other enough to lessen the need for Hardaway to be in the starting lineup, whether he’s playing well or not. 

I REALLY think the team’s biggest weakness is the 4. I’m not married to DFS as a starter, but I’m not ready to give up on that, either, so I think giving him some time as the starting 3 is logical. If that works as I expect, this thing might be one starter (a 4 - either a very strong, long forward or a very quick, agile, smart big) away.

So, my thinking is that with either Hield or THJ should be a bench player. It’s only three games in, again, but if I still feel that way at the deadline, give me THJ.  OR, use THJ to acquire that 4, not to acquire the same type of player.

I am still waiting for an idea who that player might be. Or a list of them   So that we can have a better picture what you are after.

[cow]

My preference: Buddy Love > Neither > THJ

[Scott41theMavs]

But when we start talking about THJ + another asset for a guy who is really only a lateral move, and less of a complete player, that's an overpay.

What if you make this deal and he messes up chemistry, either on the court, or in the locker room?

Yeah, you can probably move him, but if you've given up a starter + assets, it's a bad deal.

And if he messes up the locker room, you might have to attach an asset to get him out of here as well.

First, any trade can mess up chemistry. It's an assumed risk because we're trying to raise the talent level. Sometimes it works out very well (I.E. Josh Richardson). Other times not so much (I.E Rondo).

But if you want to raise the talent level of the team, you need to take risks.

Second, I don't know why we have to downplay Hield as a player and at the same time prop up THJ. What does THJ do that makes him a more complete player than Hield? Because I don't see it.

Defense? Largely equal between them all things considered
Passing? THJ does not pass the ball. Buddy has a higher average APG. Not like he passes the ball either, but it's still higher.
Ball handling? I mean THJ does handle the ball and let him dribble to find open looks. But like Buddy it isn't a strong suit and not why we're playing him
Shooting? It's not even a discussion
Scoring? Buddy has averaged higher PPG the last 2 years than THJ's peak of 18ppg. Yes it's on the Kings, but THJ was on the Knicks and still didn't crack 20ppg.

Am I missing anything? Don't get me wrong. THJ isn't a bad player per say and I've come around on him. He fills a role here, but there are other 2-guards that are much better than him. And Buddy would fill what we're asking THJ to do here much better.

I'm now going to change my title to SleepingHero: Gamethread Announcer, Staunch Buddy Defender, King of the Andals, 1st of his name.

2-guard? We already have a better two-guard than both of those guys in terms of fit if not overall talent - JRich.

[Scott41theMavs]

If THJ was shooting 40% from 3 we wouldn't need him to go to the bench to get his shots.

I don’t agree.

My thinking (only 3 games in) is that the combo of Richardson, Luka and THJ is a little small. I feel like A) Richardson’s guard skills on offense and B) DFS’s shooting off of the catch complement each other enough to lessen the need for Hardaway to be in the starting lineup, whether he’s playing well or not.

I REALLY think the team’s biggest weakness is the 4. I’m not married to DFS as a starter, but I’m not ready to give up on that, either, so I think giving him some time as the starting 3 is logical. If that works as I expect, this thing might be one starter (a 4 - either a very strong, long forward or a very quick, agile, smart big) away.

So, my thinking is that with either Hield or THJ should be a bench player. It’s only three games in, again, but if I still feel that way at the deadline, give me THJ. OR, use THJ to acquire that 4, not to acquire the same type of player.

Wow, you and I are largely on the same page with this. It's largely a matter of priorities. If you think that JRich is good enough in the playmaking department, and that Brunson can be trusted to run the team when Luka sits (head scratch....), then starting power forward should definitely be the priority, and is likely the best fix to the starting lineup.

Not sure who that guy is, but my priorities would be 1) 6'9" or taller with a plus wingspan (for you, Kamm, but also for me and the Mavs, heh), 2) solid post defense and good perimeter switching defense, 3) 35% or greater shooting from the arc, and 4) solid rebounding. TBH, Maxi nearly answers that bill - perhaps not up to snuff in boards.

[ItsGoTime]

TBH, Maxi nearly answers that bill - perhaps not up to snuff in boards.

I don't think Maxi is the post defender we need from that starting spot either.

[Scott41theMavs]

TBH, Maxi nearly answers that bill - perhaps not up to snuff in boards.

I don't think Maxi is the post defender we need from that starting spot either.

Okay. Thanks - I was squinting and thought I saw our answer at starting four; appreciate the insight.

[BigDirk41]

I sure wish we could have aquired Wood in the off-season. He's looking really good early this season.

[Scott41theMavs]

Here are some possible candidates, in no particular order:

PJ Tucker
Larry Nance Jr. 
Aaron Gordon
John Henson (currently out of the league, which isn't a good look for the possibility of him being a qualified starter...)
Nemanja Bjelica
Mike Muscala
Chris Boucher
Kevin Love
Lauri Markannen
Wendell Carter Jr.

I'd include Collins, but I'm not convinced we have the assets to get him. Furthermore, great as he is as a post guy, not a great outside shooter.

[KillerLeft]

If you think that JRich is good enough in the playmaking department, and that Brunson can be trusted to run the team when Luka sits (head scratch....)

Yeah, so this is a good point of distinction to identify carefully.

1) I think offensively, Richardson shoots a little and handles a little. Based on our small sample size, my early feeling is that the handling part is better and more comfortable for him than the relocating off ball for off the catch shots part. Based on the way he’s being used early, I feel like Richardson’s ability to help on offense by handling/playmaking a bit is part of why they wanted him.

2) I believe adding another player to the mix who’s better in that secondary playmaker role would go a long way towards making Richardson less comfortable, less effective and less meaningful on the offensive side, especially if the new player was a guard. I think that would effectively turn Richardson into a 3&D guy, and best case, I think that would require him to play a style with which he’s less comfortable and lessen the width of skills he has to offer. Worst case is that he hits major shooting dry spells and seems like a complete non-fit on offense at times.

3) I DO NOT think he’s a PG in the sense where I’m anxious to see him as the main initiator while Luka sits. So, a Brunson, Burke or better version of those guys is still needed. 

4) Due to #3 and my agreement that the 2 guards+Luka lineup needs to be an option that’s available for Carlisle, I can’t object too strongly to the idea of adding another ball-handling guard, other than my thought that Burke might just be good enough, if given time. If not, I think the easier to attain option that’s sufficient is probably a higher end bench guard, rather than a starter who handles the ball.

[dirkfansince1998]

I don't think Maxi is the post defender we need from that starting spot either.

Depends on the position he needs to defend. Against traditional centers he lacks length and strength. Against quicker PFs he is a great option. He had the best games of his career against Zion and Siakam. He blocked Zion 5x times in the same game last season.
Problem with Maxi is that he cannot handle a starting role for 80+ games / 30+ minutes. He is perfect as a 20-25 minutes guy of the bench that can occasionally finish the game with the starters.

[Kammrath]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...2862675970


Draymond would theoretically be a good fit.....but man I think he is on a steep downslope in his career.

[Scott41theMavs]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...2862675970


Draymond would theoretically be a good fit.....but man I think he is on a steep downslope in his career.

Yeah, and who on the Mavs would GSW want?

[Kammrath]

Yeah, and who on the Mavs would GSW want?

I am not sure I would give up much more than THJ and DP and one small asset. I just do not trust him to age well and he isn't spreading the floor at all these days.

[omahen]

PJ Tucker
Larry Nance Jr. 
Aaron Gordon
John Henson (currently out of the league, which isn't a good look for the possibility of him being a qualified starter...)
Nemanja Bjelica
Mike Muscala
Chris Boucher
Kevin Love
Lauri Markannen
Wendell Carter Jr.

Personally I wouldn' waste time with Nance, Henson, Bjelica, Muscala, Boucher as I don't really see them as improvement. Tucker is sort of ok but is it really worth paying an asset for him? Next offseason perhaps for MLE type of deal?

I have mixed feelings about Gordon. Is he matured enough to become the next Marion? 

Love would bring some vet experience and shooting but a giant hole on defense. I mean, if the price would be Powell and Johnson plus a couple of second rounders and there is nothing better on the table, why not. If the price is higher, I am not so sure. 

I don't see Markannen fit. He is basically poor mans KP. Questionable defense, questionable shot.

I admit I didn't see Carter Jr. a lot - isn't he a classic C? Can he guard on perimeter? I saw him in preseason and he looked lost in Chicago, just like everyone else there 

[omahen]

I am not sure I would give up much more than THJ and DP and one small asset. I just do not trust him to age well and he isn't spreading the floor at all these days.

If they are trading him, I would run away as fast as possible, as that would be a signal for me he has nothing left in the tank and three more years of very bloated contract.

[StepBackJay]

I am not sure I would give up much more than THJ and DP and one small asset. I just do not trust him to age well and he isn't spreading the floor at all these days.

Ya I am not sure I am interested in this version of Draymond. I agree with Kamm's thought of giving stuff + 1 small asset. I know the Warriors are not afraid to spend money but they probably wouldn't mind moving off some money considering that Draymond's fit there is not what it once was. I just think the risk is pretty high so I would not give up much.

[StepBackJay]

I don’t agree.

My thinking (only 3 games in) is that the combo of Richardson, Luka and THJ is a little small. I feel like A) Richardson’s guard skills on offense and B) DFS’s shooting off of the catch complement each other enough to lessen the need for Hardaway to be in the starting lineup, whether he’s playing well or not. 

I REALLY think the team’s biggest weakness is the 4. I’m not married to DFS as a starter, but I’m not ready to give up on that, either, so I think giving him some time as the starting 3 is logical. If that works as I expect, this thing might be one starter (a 4 - either a very strong, long forward or a very quick, agile, smart big) away.

So, my thinking is that with either Hield or THJ should be a bench player. It’s only three games in, again, but if I still feel that way at the deadline, give me THJ.  OR, use THJ to acquire that 4, not to acquire the same type of player.

I think Rick believes defensively he has two guards Rich, THJ then 2 forwards, Luka, DFS with a center (right now Powell but eventually KP). I don't think he wants to go bigger honestly.

---

I helped drive the Hield bus for a while this off-season, but now I’m thinking I’d rather have whichever player (he or THJ) would be less likely to cause trouble about coming off of the bench. Since I believe that’s Hardaway, who we already know loves it here and fits into the culture, I think I’m into playing this out. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a THJ apologist, but if he hasn’t found a role here that makes sense for the team by the trade deadline, I’m into moving him...I just don’t know that another guard with a similar game who expects to start and finish games would be my preference. 

Then again, so many things might look completely different by then.

My issue with THJ is he is a chucker. I hoped he turned a page last year but clearly he hasn't. His chucking is disguised when Mavs are full strength. I don't know if Hield has the same tendencies but even if he does he looks to be a much more efficient scorer so give me Hield. I don't think Rick wants to go big in the starting lineup so Hield in my view fits the mold of what Rick wants to do.

[SleepingHero]

2-guard? We already have a better two-guard than both of those guys in terms of fit if not overall talent - JRich.

I love JRich and think he will be one of our best players but I do not think he is better than Buddy Hield currently. I think he provides some much needed defense, integral even. But Buddy provides the same sort of impact on offense in my mind.

[Scott41theMavs]

2-guard? We already have a better two-guard than both of those guys in terms of fit if not overall talent - JRich.

I love JRich and think he will be one of our best players but I do not think he is better than Buddy Hield currently. I think he provides some much needed defense, integral even. But Buddy provides the same sort of impact on offense in my mind.

If you bring in another 2-guard, you displace JRich at the 2-guard, which is the binary decision not to re-sign him next summer, imho. Unless you're thinking like SBJ is, and see JRich (guards the point guards) and Hield as the guards and Luka as the defensive three. That's the one way Hield could work. But it would also require that Luka become, by this season or next at the absolute latest, a plus defender, because Hield never will be, and there's no prayer of contending with two minus defenders in the starting lineup.