2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[cow]

His salary is 20m and if that's the starting point, it was nice knowing you THJ. Best of luck.

From the list above I wonder what Ball is going to command as a RFA. I'm down to poach THT from the Lakers.

Congrats to TeamRozier for coming up with a player I like less than Dipo/OPJ. Bravo.

@"SleepingHero" You need to add picks going the Kings way in your Buddy Love scenarios. I'm still all in on the idea.

[KillerLeft]

I agree IF THJ shoots 40% from 3 again on similar volume, he won't be taking a pay cut. I'll be glad if he signs for less, but I think he would need to have a poor year shooting the ball to reduce his pay.

Yep. People are in denial. Just go look at what Bertans and Joe Harris got paid this summer, when cap space was scarce.

Shooters get paid, and they always will.

[Mavs2019]

His salary is 20m and if that's the starting point, it was nice knowing you THJ.  Best of luck.

From the list above I wonder what Ball is going to command as a RFA.  I'm down to poach THT from the Lakers.

Congrats to TeamRozier for coming up with a player I like less than Dipo/OPJ.  Bravo.

@"SleepingHero" You need to add picks going the Kings way in your Buddy Love scenarios.  I'm still all in on the idea.

Trading Hield on top of not matching Bogdanovic would be something. I think they need to let that marinate for 12 months and hope Fox/Hailburton catch fire, otherwise I don´t think you can do that. Certainly not for THJ alone and they have no use for Brunson. Maybe Green gets it done.

[loki]

$16m for THJ seems reasonable to me. He's not worth the $18m that Bogi got, but he won't want to take less than Kennard.

[cow]

Trading Hield on top of not matching Bogdanovic would be something. I think they need to let that marinate for 12 months and hope Fox/Hailburton catch fire, otherwise I don´t think you can do that. Certainly not for THJ alone and they have no use for Brunson. Maybe Green gets it done.

If they want to keep Buddy, Walton needs to be fired yesterday.  If he's a malcontent, maybe I consider THJ, Brunson + FRP for Buddy.  That doesn't seem expensive considering other recent trades we've seen.  A big gamble for the Mavs but if Buddy can fit with Carlisle personality wise, he's a guy that can get you 20 points in his sleep and carry a bigger load if/when KP isn't available.

[omahen]

Trading Hield on top of not matching Bogdanovic would be something.

I am certain Sacramento will start a rebuild after it becomes clear yet another time that this team can't even make playoffs let alone compete. The new GM will clear all Vlade mistakes. I expect any vet not named Fox to be on the table by TDL to gather assets.

[Mavs2019]

Yep. People are in denial. Just go look at what Bertans and Joe Harris got paid this summer, when cap space was scarce.

Shooters get paid, and they always will.

Well make your case. Which team gives THJ those $20M per year. Don´t just throw a number around.

Any of the rebuilding teams want to block minutes from younger players to re-live #1 option Hardaway in New York? If those teams want some veteran leadership for their youngsters, they´ll overpay DeRozan, Lowry or Conley, who have shown their leadership skills as #1/#2 options on multiple 50 win teams.

So that leaves the contenders. You think Toronto or Miami prioritize THJ in any of their scenarios?

[Mavs2019]

I am certain Sacramento will start a rebuild after it becomes clear yet another time that this team can't even make playoffs let alone compete. The new GM will clear all Vlade mistakes. I expect any vet not named Fox to be on the table by TDL to gather assets.

How many rebuilds are you going to start?

They still have Fox, Bagley and Hield. Joerger got them to 39-43. Sadly their best record in 15 years, so they fired him. If they want a rebuild, they should start with the headcoach.

[StepBackJay]

Well make your case. Which team gives THJ those $20M per year. Don´t just throw a number around.

Any of the rebuilding teams want to block minutes from younger players to re-live #1 option Hardaway in New York? If those teams want some veteran leadership for their youngsters, they´ll overpay DeRozan, Lowry or Conley, who have shown their leadership skills as #1/#2 options on multiple 50 win teams.

So that leaves the contenders. You think Toronto or Miami prioritize THJ in any of their scenarios?

I could see Mavs doing some kind of 2 year 30 mil deal or something. The dollar amount means less when a) you already have his bird rights and b) you are short on years. We have seen the Knicks hand out these 2/30 deals lately altho a lot of those are basically 1 yr deals with a TO in the 2nd year that they have no intention of picking up. If you did 2 for 30 or 3/45 with a TO in that last year I think that is a team friendly deal and still good enough money for THJ. Mavs love large expirings so THJ would essentially be a large expiring that second year. Mavs don't really need cap space after 2021 until KP's contract expires so they really just need movable contracts until then.

---

*Barf*

Are we seriously trying to talk ourselves into Scary Terry? Look I get it. Roizer goes to a crap team and puts up somewhat reasonable numbers in big minutes. But Roizer isn't getting 15 shots a game here. He isn't running the offense. He's going back to his role in Boston at best, and in that role he's averaged 7ppg on 38/35/77. That's worse than what Brunson is giving us right now. 

Add on top Roizer's 19mil he's due this year and 18 mil next, I'm puzzled why we would entertain a Roizer for Brunson swap. 

I'm more interested in flipping THJ and using Brunson as the sweetener. My B U D D Y keys are actually broken on my keyboard from how much I've typed it over the summer, but Buddy seems to me the best singular upgrade. 

Kings also have Corey Joesph as a good vet that has played under Pop for many years who would most likely thrive under Carlisle's system coming off the bench. The money would make it tricky.

The Mavs could easily trade THJ+Brunson for Buddy and call it a day, but if we want Joesph we'd need to add at least an outgoing salary of 5 mil. When you start adding more salaries to a trade, the less likely it'll actually work out. The only realistic one I could muster was

Holmes+Joesph+Buddy for THJ+Powell+Brunson works on paper, but I doubt the Kings would be interested in that at all.

I like Buddy a lot. Are we sure THJ + Brunson gets it done? I don't think Buddy has negative value so they might like a better asset than Brunson and future cap savings.

[StepBackJay]

$16m for THJ seems reasonable to me. He's not worth the $18m that Bogi got, but he won't want to take less than Kennard.

Ya I think so for sure assuming we aren't finding a better option in FA (seems doubtful). If THJ can get like 4 years guaranteed I am less happy ab that type of contract but if the years are team-friendly (like a 2 year) then I like the risk/reward/production better than some more expensive options.

[omahen]

Well make your case. Which team gives THJ those $20M per year. Don´t just throw a number around.

Any of the rebuilding teams want to block minutes from younger players to re-live #1 option Hardaway in New York? If those teams want some veteran leadership for their youngsters, they´ll overpay DeRozan, Lowry or Conley, who have shown their leadership skills as #1/#2 options on multiple 50 win teams.

So that leaves the contenders. You think Toronto or Miami prioritize THJ in any of their scenarios?

Like Charlotte didn't just give 30 mil per season to Hayward. It only takes one and so far all shooters got a nice contract.

They still have Fox, Bagley and Hield. Joerger got them to 39-43. Sadly their best record in 15 years, so they fired him. If they want a rebuild, they should start with the headcoach.

It is pretty simple for the new management. They can continue on the same path and almost make playoffs here and there with this team grabbing #10 picks along the way which will not really make them much better. Or they can tank for a serious pick a year or two in a row and perhaps grab a franchise cornerstone. I don't care who will be their coach through their rebuild.

[Scott41theMavs]

I actually like the Rozier idea earlier in this thread

*Barf*

Are we seriously trying to talk ourselves into Scary Terry? Look I get it. Roizer goes to a crap team and puts up somewhat reasonable numbers in big minutes. But Roizer isn't getting 15 shots a game here. He isn't running the offense. He's going back to his role in Boston at best, and in that role he's averaged 7ppg on 38/35/77. That's worse than what Brunson is giving us right now.

Add on top Roizer's 19mil he's due this year and 18 mil next, I'm puzzled why we would entertain a Roizer for Brunson swap.

I'm more interested in flipping THJ and using Brunson as the sweetener. My B U D D Y keys are actually broken on my keyboard from how much I've typed it over the summer, but Buddy seems to me the best singular upgrade.

Kings also have Corey Joesph as a good vet that has played under Pop for many years who would most likely thrive under Carlisle's system coming off the bench. The money would make it tricky.

The Mavs could easily trade THJ+Brunson for Buddy and call it a day, but if we want Joesph we'd need to add at least an outgoing salary of 5 mil. When you start adding more salaries to a trade, the less likely it'll actually work out. The only realistic one I could muster was

Holmes+Joesph+Buddy for THJ+Powell+Brunson works on paper, but I doubt the Kings would be interested in that at all.

SH, it wasn't so much Rozier specifically so much as a starting-level PG in general.

[StepBackJay]

Rozier is garbage.

[Scott41theMavs]

Rozier is garbage.

I beg you to tell me that wasn't directed at me after I clarified.

[StepBackJay]

I beg you to tell me that wasn't directed at me after I clarified.

Not directed at you or anybody I just hate Rozier. I hate his game and his contract.

[Branduil]

Rozier is the small guard version of Harrison Barnes.

[Kammrath]

Rozier

I cannot even state on how far OUT I am on Rozier.

[SleepingHero]

I like Buddy a lot. Are we sure THJ + Brunson gets it done? I don't think Buddy has negative value so they might like a better asset than Brunson and future cap savings.

Like cow said (odd typing that out), picks will most certainly be added. How many picks? Probably less than what we think.

I don't think there is a line of teams waiting for Buddy Hield. He is certainly a 1 trick pony. It just happens to be that his 1 trick makes him always one of the most deadly players out there on offense. 

He's in that nebulous space of too good to just be a role player, and not good enough to lead a team to the playoffs. The fact you can't make him your offensive engine takes out a lot of teams rebuilding, and his high priced contract hurts the chances of contenders. Put it this way, I don't think any western conference team aside maybe the Jazz would try to go after him. 

I think a protected 1st and a couple of 2nds would get it done. Brunson is a young piece any rebuilding team would like and THJ saves the Kings from paying their roster upwards of 130 mil next season.

---

SH, it wasn't so much Rozier specifically so much as a starting-level PG in general.

Ah. My mistake sorry!

In any case I don't think Roizer is worth the title of a starting level PG. I think IF the Mavs want to go adding another playmaker, Ricky Rubio is a more interesting prospect.

Another one is Mike Conley, who could be had for pennies on the dollar considering his large expiring and poor play. 

I don't think a starting level PG is the highest need on the totem pole, but I do have concerns about a Brunson-Burke backcourt to produce every single night, and a starting level PG in that role will certainly solve those issues.

[Branduil]

The Mavs shouldn't worry about backup PG until they have a contending-level starting lineup.

[SkenfromLMF]

I am in a weird place when it comes to this roster...

I really wanted Dallas to use Lee and Powell to be the basis of an overpay in salary but for better player... Tobias Harris is the most egregious of this type of target, but I was willing to play along in the fantasy of Rudy Gobert as the best case one could hope for...

Now with the summer of '21 becoming a dud rather than a blast off, losing Lee and his 1 yr guaranteed salary really hurts the plan to trade from a low salary position. Sure Johnson and THJ or Johnson and Powell can net a large salary return, it also means the Mavs will have to really cut into the rotation to get a deal done.

Something to look for in a potential deal. Let us say that Dallas makes a deal which requires multiple pieces going out - Johnson THJ and a rookie/Brunson for Hield for example - and the receiving team would prefer to deal minimum salaried players back to Dallas rather than cut them to fit in the the new pieces... Look for Dallas to waive those minimum players and bring back Lee/Barea. The goal here is that Lee, as long as he does not sign with another team first, would regain his Bird Rights at the end of a contract with Dallas even if it is the prorated minimum.

I want Courtney Lee to get PAID one last time by Dallas in a trade bringing in a piece who makes too much, but is an improvement on the squad.

BTW it is difficult to discern Dust from Powder if you don't use it properly or in a timely manner. When they are in the wind they are both basically useless.




But LUST lingers