2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[Omega_Supreme]

I don't think most people on this board realize how much of a "high culture" player is valued in a professional sports team. Your one of the few that repeatedly says this of Powell despite knowing his not the ideal Forward/Center, he has intangibles that doesn't show up on stats.

he is one of the biggest center pieces in the NBA Players Union so that is big. That is just like working next to the guy that is a VP in a workers union. Powell is also a hardworker which no one on here can argue. 

You have to have a few selfless players on the roster and not everyone can be a superstar. His intangibles exist way beyond what he does on the court. 

I do agree with others though we will improve once he is no longer a starter. Not and indictment on him just that we need a more talented player occupying his minutes. The sooner we can find that the better.

[Branduil]

I disagree, especially if the alternative you suggest is another 3&D guy, which is how I view OPJ. If they could get a 3 who could ALSO floor the ball and make plays, I'd trade those dudes in a heartbeat. 

And, I'm not resigned to the idea that the upgrade has to be at the 3. I view Powell's spot as just as likely to be upgraded, even if you're correct that they're locked into starting him there FOR NOW, with THIS roster. That's certainly the position Giannis would've played, after all. So, we KNOW there are players they'd replace Powell with. 

Finally, while I don't know if the Mavs agree with this, MY opinion is that DFS is more desirable to keep and build around than Powell, and I LIKE Powell (before injury). I just REALLY like DFS. 

I hope that all makes sense.

I feel like you're selling OPJ a bit short on offense. His career averages on PPG and shooting percentage are higher than DFS' best year, which was last year. This is despite OPJ playing on a variety of disastrously bad and mismanaged teams while DFS played on the most efficient offense in league history last year.  I think he could capably share the third-scorer role with JRich in our starting lineup.

Looking at OPJ's career, his best season, unsurprisingly, was when he played the third scorer to John Wall and Bradley Beal. He averaged 14.7 ppg on 44% 3PT shooting and 60% TS. That's elite for a complementary scorer. And Luka+KP in a Rick Carlisle offense is much, much better than Wall+Beal. Really the question with OPJ is if he can stay healthy.

[KillerLeft]

I feel like you're selling OPJ a bit short on offense. His career averages on PPG and shooting percentage are higher than DFS' best year, which was last year. This is despite OPJ playing on a variety of disastrously bad and mismanaged teams while DFS played on the most efficient offense in league history last year.  I think he could capably share the third-scorer role with JRich in our starting lineup.

Hey, it's possible. I'm just explaining why I'm not into it.

[ItsGoTime]

Would you trade OPJ for THJ + DFS?

If it came down to that being the only deal they accept, yes. I don't think that is enough salary outgoing though and I'd try to give them something else other than DFS. THJ and snt Lee for OPJ, something like that.

[Branduil]

If it came down to that being the only deal they accept, yes. I don't think that is enough salary outgoing though and I'd try to give them something else other than DFS. THJ and snt Lee for OPJ, something like that.

THJ+DFS works on TradeNBA

[dirkfansince1998]

Still going with my original plan:

1) Ignore RFA. It won´t happen.

2) Extend THJ to get rid of his cap hold. Anything between 3/33-3/45 seems reasonable.

3) Trade Johnson and picks (personally I would include Powell as well but he is RCs son so it won´t happen) for a matching salary. Aaron Gordon looks like the perfect option. Other interesting options with matching salaries: Zach Lavine, Danilo Gallinari, Gary Harris, Jerami Grant, Myles Turner, both Bogdanovics,Ricky Rubio, Evan Fournier, Caris Levert, Joe Harris, Kelly Oubre, David Bertans, Malik Beasley, Marcus Smart, Christian Wood.

4) Resign Josh Richardson. If he is the player that we all expect him to be he will get at least 4/80. Maybe more.

5) Pick one out of WCS and Powell. Mavs don´t need both. Personally I would waive Powell (won´t happen) and try to replace him with a FA like Theis.

6) Take a look at the luxury tax line. Use full MLE and BA or rE.

7) Bring back Boban on a vet min deal. Take a look at the 2-way guys and figure out if one of them deserves a guaranteed contract.

8) If Johnson was happy in Dallas and the Mavs still have a roster spot. Bring him back on a vet min deal.

[omahen]

I don't think there is any way to get him, but DeJounte Murray would be great for Mavs. Murray-Richardson would be great perimeter defense, he can create some and hit an open three.

[Branduil]

Step 1: THJ+DFS for OPJ

Step 2: James Johnson+future pick for Aaron Gordon

STARTERS / 2nd UNIT / RESERVES

Luka / Brunson
JRich / Burke / Terry
OPJ / Green / Hinton / Iwundu
Gordon / Maxi
KP / Powell / WCS / Boban

What's not to like?

[ClutchDirk]

https://media.giphy.com/media/3ov9jHlcRj.../giphy.gif

[ItsGoTime]

THJ+DFS works on TradeNBA

Try THJ straight up for OPJ. There is something screwy going on with RealGM's and TradeNBA's trade machines. ESPN shows you need something like $4.9M to make the trade with THJ.

[Branduil]

Try THJ straight up for OPJ. There is something screwy going on with RealGM's and TradeNBA's trade machines. ESPN shows you need something like $4.9M to make the trade with THJ.

In that case you could just thrown in a min-salary guy to make it work.

[Jym]

I agree with the Isaac talk. Or at least the general idea. 
Trading for someone coming off their rookie deal like we did with KP would have to be the ideal route now

Not a lot of people alone would be better than the Richardson + THJ combo. So I'll be really confused if we fail to pull off a trade of some kind. Should be open season for Donnie to work his magic

[Dundalis]

I agree with the philosophy your opinions stem from, believe me. 

I don't think the specific application of them to the examples above are correct, however. As Kammrath loves to point out on a daily basis, the data says that Powell/KP is a GOOD defensive pairing, and that DFS is much better at the 3 than the 4. 

But again, I'm with you on the overall philosophy.

Fair enough, my thoughts revolve predominantly around playoffs though. Powell/KP data would be pretty small sample size and only regular season, and is the data actually looking at purely defensive metrics, or factoring that their offensive contributions outway defensive leakage? We've seen teams with just one single good interior defensive big get exploited big time in the playoffs if they can't defend in space (Gobert absolutely was IMO). Having two of those as your starters in today's NBA.... eh. The better playoff teams with elite wing play will have a field day drawing up plays to exploit a defense with two guys who can't defend out to the 3pt line or in PnR.

[Dundalis]

Step 1: THJ+DFS for OPJ

Step 2: James Johnson+future pick for Aaron Gordon

STARTERS / 2nd UNIT / RESERVES

Luka / Brunson
JRich / Burke / Terry
OPJ / Green / Hinton / Iwundu
Gordon / Maxi
KP / Powell / WCS / Boban

What's not to like?

JJ + future pick for Gordon would be highway robbery regardless of his value being at a low point. Would be a ridiculous get given his age and upside. Magic would get way better offers than that. OPJ can be had in FA, so I dunno why you'd trade for him, plus his injuries kinda scare me. I'd be very happy with Gordon being the primary get in a trade centering on THJ.

If they managed to pull this off regardless and OPJ managed to stay healthy the team is set and genuine contenders for the next 5 years.

[SleepingHero]

It's funny, people who lambast KP on his health are advocating trading for a dude who has missed nearly 36% of all games possible in his short career. 27 game rookie season, solid sophomore, then injury plagued 34 game 3rd year, and now an entire missed 4th year due to an ACL tear. Is that not a concern? If it isn't then why are we worried about KP? And if it is a concern, then why are we investing in this dude? 

Now I like Isaac. I think he'd be a good fit, but I just find it a little funny the lack of consistency . 


Also, the Magic will give up Vucevic or Gordon WAY before giving up on Isaac if money is an issue. And well if money isn't an issue, then Isaac isn't available since ORL will match anything.

[omahen]

It's funny, people who lambast KP on his health are advocating trading for a dude who has missed nearly 36% of all games possible in his short career. 27 game rookie season, solid sophomore, then injury plagued 34 game 3rd year, and now an entire missed 4th year due to an ACL tear. Is that not a concern? If it isn't then why are we worried about KP? And if it is a concern, then why are we investing in this dude? 

Now I like Isaac. I think he'd be a good fit, but I just find it a little funny the lack of consistency . 


Also, the Magic will give up Vucevic or Gordon WAY before giving up on Isaac if money is an issue. And well if money isn't an issue, then Isaac isn't available since ORL will match anything.

Totally agree with everything you said. Realistically, Isaac can perhaps be get if we offer max (or very close to it). Anything less will be certainly matched by Orlando. In order to get to the max space we have to give up JRich, THJ and all other non guaranteed contracts. And we still risk Orlando matches the offer. 

I am neither comfortable paying that much for him nor giving up everyone listed for him.

Question for CBA and cap experts - can you submit an offer for RFA without actually having the needed cap space? Like being opportunistic - if it gets through, we will take care of cap space later.

[Dundalis]

It's funny, people who lambast KP on his health are advocating trading for a dude who has missed nearly 36% of all games possible in his short career. 27 game rookie season, solid sophomore, then injury plagued 34 game 3rd year, and now an entire missed 4th year due to an ACL tear. Is that not a concern? If it isn't then why are we worried about KP? And if it is a concern, then why are we investing in this dude? 

Now I like Isaac. I think he'd be a good fit, but I just find it a little funny the lack of consistency . 


Also, the Magic will give up Vucevic or Gordon WAY before giving up on Isaac if money is an issue. And well if money isn't an issue, then Isaac isn't available since ORL will match anything.

OPJ's skillset is perfect, but his injury history is more than enough for me to want to stay away, or at least give up as little assets as possible.

Gordon IMO is one of those guys who's value is at an all time low, but who I'm convinced is a candidate for a MIP type leap if moved to the right team. Perfect trade target to be had cheaper than what his actual talent level is. Isaac scares me almost as much as OPJ. He's way younger, but he's one of those guys who just looks injury prone by his body type alone.

[SleepingHero]

Gordon IMO is one of those guys who's value is at an all time low, but who I'm convinced is a candidate for a MIP type leap if moved to the right team. Perfect trade target to be had cheaper than what his actual talent level is. Isaac scares me almost as much as OPJ. He's way younger, but he's one of those guys who just looks injury prone by his body type alone.

The Mavs have had a long interest in Gordon. I remember when DSJ was doing his whole "sit-out" routine when Luka showed up, the Mavs had talks with the Magic revolving around a Gordon for DSJ swap. 

I've been on team Gordon for a LONG time too. Think he'd be the perfect blend of a 4 and small ball 5 that we are searching for with Powell. He's athletic enough to be a great help defender around the rim, and quick enough to guard any switches on the perimeter. A perfect running mate to a guy like KP, and similar mold to Maxi. 

Unfortunately, given Isaac's injury, I don't think the Magic are in any rush whatsoever to trade Gordon. I don't think THJ is enticing enough either. The Magic don't even have that many bad contracts outside of Vucevic. So unfortunately I don't think there's a realistic path to get him.

[SleepingHero]

Totally agree with everything you said. Realistically, Isaac can perhaps be get if we offer max (or very close to it). Anything less will be certainly matched by Orlando. In order to get to the max space we have to give up JRich, THJ and all other non guaranteed contracts. And we still risk Orlando matches the offer. 

Yeah I'm not really interested in playing the waiting game in FA hoping ORL doesn't match, and even then question if it's even worth it to get a guy like Isaac at that price. Gordon would be my play, but I don't think there are any realistic routes to get him. 

Question for CBA and cap experts - can you submit an offer for RFA without actually having the needed cap space? Like being opportunistic - if it gets through, we will take care of cap space later.

Pretty sure you need cap-space actually available in order to submit an offer sheet. That sheet is what starts the 2-day countdown for the team that has the RFA to decide whether or not to match. I don't think you can submit that sheet without having actually signed the dude, and if you can't sign the offer sheet, then the 2-day countdown never starts.

But I could be wrong. Wish DLord was here to clear that up.

[Halfnir]

Question for CBA and cap experts - can you submit an offer for RFA without actually having the needed cap space? Like being opportunistic - if it gets through, we will take care of cap space later.

Nope, issuing an RFA offer sheet requires to have cap space and blocks it. It's released only if the current team of the RFA matches the offer. Which is usually dragged out to the last minute.