2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

Save me a seat.

I guess you never know. The Kings let Bog leave for nothing. It seems like a dump idea to let a talented RFA walk. Mavs have gone the overpay for an RFA route before. I can't rule it out completely but I would be interested to see what the news reports are around the Magic and Isaac this next offseason.

[Kammrath]

He said it recently in an interview he did while at camp.

Can you please point me to that interview? Because I have listened to them all and do not remember that.

[Branduil]

Right now the Mavs have 6 guys they want to start in Luka/KP/JRich/THJ/Powell/DFS. To me it would make a lot of sense if we could somehow consolidate THJ and DFS into one player. I wonder if the Bulls would be interested in a THJ+DFS swap for OPJ by the trade deadline.

[StepBackJay]

Can you please point me to that interview? Because I have listened to them all and do not remember that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59-rw0xnzpQ (around 5:30 mark Rick brought up KP's position out of the blue really)

He said KP will play a lot of 5 and some 4. I heard this clip originally from the LockedOnMavs podcast (not sure which one?) Nick mentioned that Rick had called Dwight the 4 before. I don't recall his exact quote.

[KillerLeft]

Right now the Mavs have 6 guys they want to start in Luka/KP/JRich/THJ/Powell/DFS. To me it would make a lot of sense if we could somehow consolidate THJ and DFS into one player. I wonder if the Bulls would be interested in a THJ+DFS swap for OPJ by the trade deadline.

Love the OPJ idea, but not if it's to play the 3. 

Loads of people will disagree, but to me, that guy is a 4. I would straight up rather just bet on DFS to take another step if we're thinking of OPJ as a 3. 

Now, I have altered my thinking today, in part because of how Richardson has looked, and in part because of the prize coming off the board. I said during the off-season that I wouldn't be in favor of THJ for OPJ under any circumstances. With Richardson here, and my willingness to bet on DFS moving forward, I would now be in favor of consolidating THJ/Powell into OPJ. 

I like Luka/Richardson/DFS/OPJ/KP a lot, and there are others I'd look into for that spot, too. 

I'm ok if the move ends up being THJ/DFS for a 3, too (I think Kleber can be a long term starter here at the 4), but I don't think OPJ is that guy. Just my opinion.

[KillerLeft]

I really think either Jerami Grant or Christian Wood is going to wind up being the closest thing to an opportunity missed as the Mavs traversed this plan. I'm just not sure which. I feel like one of them is going to keep ascending.

[StepBackJay]

I really think either Jerami Grant or Christian Wood is going to wind up being the closest thing to an opportunity missed as the Mavs traversed this plan. I'm just not sure which. I feel like one of them is going to keep ascending.

I wonder if Grant will be available down the line.

[KillerLeft]

I wonder if Grant will be available down the line.

Maybe, but my guess is that if he is, then we probably won't want him. If he takes the next step, that contract will be a bargain and they'll want to dump Griffin. If he doesn't, then it's another pricey deal people won't want to touch.

[StepBackJay]

https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-...8-80012130

At around 31:15-ish Nick says Carlisle calls Powell the 4 when he plays together with KP.

---

Maybe, but my guess is that if he is, then we probably won't want him. If he takes the next step, that contract will be a bargain and they'll want to dump Griffin. If he doesn't, then it's another pricey deal people won't want to touch.

Right I just feel like if Mavs choose to upgrade one guy it's going to be THJ not Powell. Rick loves Powell for whatever reason. We know this offseason they were looking at a lot of wing/guard type playmakers.

[Scott41theMavs]

Right now the Mavs have 6 guys they want to start in Luka/KP/JRich/THJ/Powell/DFS. To me it would make a lot of sense if we could somehow consolidate THJ and DFS into one player. I wonder if the Bulls would be interested in a THJ+DFS swap for OPJ by the trade deadline.

Love the OPJ idea, but not if it's to play the 3.

Loads of people will disagree, but to me, that guy is a 4. I would straight up rather just bet on DFS to take another step if we're thinking of OPJ as a 3.

Now, I have altered my thinking today, in part because of how Richardson has looked, and in part because of the prize coming off the board. I said during the off-season that I wouldn't be in favor of THJ for OPJ under any circumstances. With Richardson here, and my willingness to bet on DFS moving forward, I would now be in favor of consolidating THJ/Powell into OPJ.

I like Luka/Richardson/DFS/OPJ/KP a lot, and there are others I'd look into for that spot, too.

I'm ok if the move ends up being THJ/DFS for a 3, too (I think Kleber can be a long term starter here at the 4), but I don't think OPJ is that guy. Just my opinion.

This is just about the ideal to me.

[Branduil]

Love the OPJ idea, but not if it's to play the 3. 

Loads of people will disagree, but to me, that guy is a 4. I would straight up rather just bet on DFS to take another step if we're thinking of OPJ as a 3. 

Now, I have altered my thinking today, in part because of how Richardson has looked, and in part because of the prize coming off the board. I said during the off-season that I wouldn't be in favor of THJ for OPJ under any circumstances. With Richardson here, and my willingness to bet on DFS moving forward, I would now be in favor of consolidating THJ/Powell into OPJ. 

I like Luka/Richardson/DFS/OPJ/KP a lot, and there are others I'd look into for that spot, too. 

I'm ok if the move ends up being THJ/DFS for a 3, too (I think Kleber can be a long term starter here at the 4), but I don't think OPJ is that guy. Just my opinion.

Is there a reason you think he's better off as a 4 than a 3?

[KillerLeft]

Is there a reason you think he's better off as a 4 than a 3?

So, you know how Kamm is hellbent on maximizing size at every position? I am the same way, only about foot speed, agility and skills. 

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I've learned over the years that he believes you start your search at each position with the ideal body style, height and wingspan and then narrow the list according to skill-set and fit. If two ideally sized players are available, he'd want the more skilled one. He's no dummy. 

I'm the opposite. I figure out which guys I think can DO what I want them to be able to do at each position, and then I narrow the list (or ranking) down based on ideal size and length. If two adequately skilled players are available, I want the bigger, longer, stronger one. But, it starts with skillset for me. 

Neither angle is right/wrong, imo, and usually, the VERY top guys will be the same at the end of either process. 

I would just rather err on the side of having a guy who's really fast, quick and smart. What I want to avoid at pretty much any cost is trying to make a guy who's too slow or not skilled enough work out of position. Examples: Harrison Barnes is a 4, not a 3. You can say he's not a good 4, and that's fine, but playing him at the 3 doesn't solve the problem. If he's not good enough for you at the 4 because of his size, then he's simply not good enough, period.

I'm not an OPJ expert, but I think if the Mavs are going to make a move for a true SF, then he needs to be able to handle the ball, and his foot speed needs to give them an athletic advantage at that position, not ONLY his size and length. The game is about covering ground quickly, nowadays. Does OPJ have an athletic advantage or a skills advantage over Paul George? I would say no, so why bother? Just keep developing DFS and hope for the best.

I COULD see OPJ making Kawhi Leonard or Lebron have to RUN in transition to keep up...idk, I just think he has what it would take to play the 4 against any team in crunch time, the small ones and the big ones. And, I think he could hold his own there most nights. 

I think OPJ could play SOME 3, I just don't see that as being a good plan for the default crunch time lineup.

EDIT: I want to reiterate that I'm not an OPJ expert. I'm not a league pass guy, but I watch the hell out of the playoffs every year. To put the above in perspective, change OPJ to Jerami Grant, and I'm CONFIDENT that I'm correct about everything above. I'm a little less confident about it regarding OPJ, but that's how I view him based on a fairly limited sampling of his game.

[omahen]

So, you know how Kamm is hellbent on maximizing size at every position? I am the same way, only about foot speed, agility and skills. 

I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I've learned over the years that he believes you start your search at each position with the ideal body style, height and wingspan and then narrow the list according to skill-set and fit. If two ideally sized players are available, he'd want the more skilled one. He's no dummy. 

I'm the opposite. I figure out which guys I think can DO what I want them to be able to do at each position, and then I narrow the list (or ranking) down based on ideal size and length. If two adequately skilled players are available, I want the bigger, longer, stronger one. But, it starts with skillset for me. 

Neither angle is right/wrong, imo, and usually, the VERY top guys will be the same at the end of either process. 

I would just rather err on the side of having a guy who's really fast, quick and smart. What I want to avoid at pretty much any cost is trying to make a guy who's too slow or not skilled enough work out of position. Examples: Harrison Barnes is a 4, not a 3. You can say he's not a good 4, and that's fine, but playing him at the 3 doesn't solve the problem. If he's not good enough for you at the 4 because of his size, then he's simply not good enough, period.

I'm not an OPJ expert, but I think if the Mavs are going to make a move for a true SF, then he needs to be able to handle the ball, and his foot speed needs to give them an athletic advantage at that position, not ONLY his size and length. The game is about covering ground quickly, nowadays. Does OPJ have an athletic advantage or a skills advantage over Paul George? I would say no, so why bother? Just keep developing DFS and hope for the best.

I COULD see OPJ making Kawhi Leonard or Lebron have to RUN in transition to keep up...idk, I just think he has what it would take to play the 4 against any team in crunch time, the small ones and the big ones. And, I think he could hold his own there most nights. 

I think OPJ could play SOME 3, I just don't see that as being a good plan for the default crunch time lineup.

With Luka and KP size, Mavs can play 3 wings next to them. As I said before - trading THJ for OPJ is a marginal improvement. Trade Johnson, Powell and whatever future picks needed. This makes team much better. Then you can decide if you want to keep THJ or "upgrade" him too. At this point of building a contender with just one or two moves left, picks are more or less worthless for us. It should all go into maximizing the top of the roster. We have too much cheap depth as it is.

[aguiar95]

I'm just so in love with our roster I'd have a hard time including anyone but THJ/Johnson in the deal (I don't think we should spend major assets to dump Powell as well) . THJ + Johnson + 2 2nd rounders for OPJ + Felicio (CHI would probably be on tank mode) seems fair. Looking at the contenders, I have a hard time seeing someone spending a 1st for his expiring.

Doncic/Brunson/Terry
Richardson/Burke/Hinton
Finney-Smith/Green/Iwundu
Porter/Powell/Bey/Felicio
Porzingis/Kleber/Cauley-stein/Boban

[cow]

Right now the Mavs have 6 guys they want to start in Luka/KP/JRich/THJ/Powell/DFS. To me it would make a lot of sense if we could somehow consolidate THJ and DFS into one player. I wonder if the Bulls would be interested in a THJ+DFS swap for OPJ by the trade deadline.

Gross.  DFS is on a cheap contract.  Don't give that up for an expiring that is somewhat of a lateral move.

JRich is expiring but I think he's in the Mavs long term plans.  You probably can't get off of Powell's contract.  THJ kind of feels like the odd man out.  I know he wants to be here but I'm not sure how much of a hair cut he is willing to take and we've probably seen him at his peak.

[KillerLeft]

Gross.  DFS is on a cheap contract.  Don't give that up for an expiring.

I concur. 

Unless that expiring is attached to a difference making player. I don't think OPJ is that (though I do like him).

[omahen]

I'm just so in love with our roster I'd have a hard time including anyone but THJ/Johnson in the deal (I don't think we should spend major assets to dump Powell as well) . THJ + Johnson + 2 2nd rounders for OPJ + Felicio (CHI would probably be on tank mode) seems fair.

Why are you all looking to replace a starter for a starter? This just marginally improves us... The goal should be to sacrifice a bit of our bench depth and future assets for trading our weakest starter (Powell). 

I am looking it this way. At the moment Brunson might be our biggest trade asset if he can keep playing the way he played those first two preseason games. He is great, but he is destined to be a back up PG behind Luka with the Mavs. This means a guy playing 15-20 minutes per game in regular season and less than 10 minutes in playoffs. Is it really worth paying 10 million per season (this is the range his next contract would look like) for him? I would rather put a vet min ring chasing vet on this position and cash out Brunson while we can. After him we have a couple of cheap wings - Green or DFS. One of them can be traded, since their minutes would reduce drastically anyway, if we bring a guy like OPJ in the picture. Than we have 2027 first and second rounders. Johnson is just an expiring contract. He will be vet min next year.

[omahen]

You probably can't get off of Powell's contract.

Why would you say that? He will have just 2 years left after this season and he is starting on a playoff western team. Is that really a useless player? I am not saying his contract is positive, but it certainly looks much better than it did a couple of months ago. High culture, great locker room guy with elite skill... I don't see much problem including his contract in a deal. And he is certainly a player we have many options to replace in the starting line-up

[cow]

Why would you say that? He will have just 2 years left after this season and he is starting on a playoff western team. Is that really a useless player? I am not saying his contract is positive, but it certainly looks much better than it did a couple of months ago. High culture, great locker room guy with elite skill... I don't see much problem including his contract in a deal. And he is certainly a player we have many options to replace in the starting line-up

He's pretty expensive and that recent injury is going to give anyone pause.  A lot of the value he brings to the Mavs isn't an easy sell to other teams.  I think the soonest you could move him is the TDL in 21/22.

[omahen]

He's pretty expensive and that recent injury is going to give anyone pause.  A lot of the value he brings to the Mavs isn't an easy sell to other teams.  I think the soonest you could move him is the TDL in 21/22.

Well, he is proving to everyone that recent injury is a thing of past. I don't see much difference between pre injury and post injury Powell, other than perhaps a little rust that need to be shaken off. That's why I don't agree that he is a huge negative. Let's take OPJ example. Chicago will be moving him only, if they are tanking. If they are tanking, they don't need (max) cap space because no free agent will want to go there anyway. So if Mavs are offering a pick for OPJ, they would do it, imho. Who else of the contenders can even match that 28 mil salary anyway and offer a pick?