DAL OFFSEASON: Trade & FA | Mavs "mostly done...but you never know."

[StepBackJay]

Sure you can. If the Mavs draft for the team in Wednesday and consummate the trade Thursday

You aren't going to do that deal with the player decision hanging in the balance. If THJ opted out then you just screwed up your trade. GM's aren't going to do that.

[omahen]

You asking for us or the Rockets?

Rockets. I just don't see Celtics pulling a trigger on that one. Philly yes, Celtics no. They have a young core of very good players (stars). They are just a couple of tweaks away from being a really serious longterm contender. Harden can ruin that in a season.

[sefant]

Supes

He's Atlanta first choice and we are his.

hopefully he is right

[cjeter24]

Turned into to the Jump draft special on ESPN. Saw Perkins and Paul Pierce on... Immediately turned it off. 
What a clown show. Those guys are definitely draft guys lol what

[Mavs2019]

Wrll weh

That's a bold statement, my friend.

I at least know Harris is going to be available to play. And his offensive stats are actually better. Defense I don't think is as good. 

And make not mistake. I want no part of Harris. But I want no part of GH even less if we are exhausting every decent asset we have. 

For a guy who isn't a 20 ppg guy? No thanks. His career scoring average is 15.3ppg. He's a good defender but he's not winning any DPOY awards.

Dear Lord please stop. Health is the concern with GH. Otherwise, Hayward and THJ are not in the same stratosphere as players. Hayward made an all star team the west. He’s a 20/5/5 guy that can do a little bit of everything. THJ we kept from being a complete bum and one of the worst players in the nba by telling him to just catch and shoot off Luka dish outs.

---

Not going to disagree that Hayward is better than THJ, but he literally never had a 20/5/5 season.

He´s been averaging roughly 14.3/5.3/3.7, since his return from injury, obviously current season being better than the last, but nothing spectacular.

It´s actually not that far off the Oladipo post-injury numbers so far: 14.5/3.9/2.9. So with a similar positive progress Oladipo could be back to target status for 2021 FA.

I don’t know if I had this screen name on the old site but I literally could not give two shits about a guys counting stats. It’s all about role and opportunity. Julius Randle must be borderline all nba then because he could put up 20/10 easy. 


GH was the primary offense creator on a playoff team in the west. THJ was the primary bum on the Knicks. Switch their roles and I don’t think it’s close in terms of impact. 

once again the caveat is what your medical team says about Hayward.

I just don’t want to trade Maxi. 18+31+THJ id do for GH of medical checks out

THJ + Delin is a clown offer

Well you threw out the numbers first saying that Hayward is a 20/5/5 guy.

You can say that he´s a creator and facilitator. No problem there. But he´s more of the 16/5/4 level, which I guess doesn´t sound as nice as 20/5/5, although you don´t care about the numbers.

I acknowledged that Hayward is better than THJ, so not sure why you come at me with that.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

That's an extreme overpay. Hayward is basically only a solid starter right now. He's not a star. He's now 30. I'd rather trade for Tobias Harris on his awful salary then trade any decent asset we have for Hayward.

That's a bold statement, my friend.

I at least know Harris is going to be available to play. And his offensive stats are actually better. Defense I don't think is as good. 

And make not mistake. I want no part of Harris. But I want no part of GH even less if we are exhausting every decent asset we have. 

For a guy who isn't a 20 ppg guy? No thanks. His career scoring average is 15.3ppg. He's a good defender but he's not winning any DPOY awards.

Dear Lord please stop. Health is the concern with GH. Otherwise, Hayward and THJ are not in the same stratosphere as players. Hayward made an all star team the west. He’s a 20/5/5 guy that can do a little bit of everything. THJ we kept from being a complete bum and one of the worst players in the nba by telling him to just catch and shoot off Luka dish outs.

---

DFS > Hayward

JFC

This isn't 2016/2017

If you’re trading for GH, it’s because you think it is. His numbers have been bad because injury and opportunity. 

Otherwise you don’t trade for him and sign him for 4 years as your number three.

[KillerLeft]

Turned into to the Jump draft special on ESPN. Saw Perkins and Paul Pierce on... Immediately turned it off. 
What a clown show. Those guys are definitely draft guys lol what

Perkins is the WORST. He makes Chris Webber and Mark Jackson seem articulate.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Wrll weh

I at least know Harris is going to be available to play. And his offensive stats are actually better. Defense I don't think is as good. 

And make not mistake. I want no part of Harris. But I want no part of GH even less if we are exhausting every decent asset we have. 

For a guy who isn't a 20 ppg guy? No thanks. His career scoring average is 15.3ppg. He's a good defender but he's not winning any DPOY awards.

Dear Lord please stop. Health is the concern with GH. Otherwise, Hayward and THJ are not in the same stratosphere as players. Hayward made an all star team the west. He’s a 20/5/5 guy that can do a little bit of everything. THJ we kept from being a complete bum and one of the worst players in the nba by telling him to just catch and shoot off Luka dish outs.

---

Not going to disagree that Hayward is better than THJ, but he literally never had a 20/5/5 season.

He´s been averaging roughly 14.3/5.3/3.7, since his return from injury, obviously current season being better than the last, but nothing spectacular.

It´s actually not that far off the Oladipo post-injury numbers so far: 14.5/3.9/2.9. So with a similar positive progress Oladipo could be back to target status for 2021 FA.

I don’t know if I had this screen name on the old site but I literally could not give two shits about a guys counting stats. It’s all about role and opportunity. Julius Randle must be borderline all nba then because he could put up 20/10 easy. 


GH was the primary offense creator on a playoff team in the west. THJ was the primary bum on the Knicks. Switch their roles and I don’t think it’s close in terms of impact. 

once again the caveat is what your medical team says about Hayward.

I just don’t want to trade Maxi. 18+31+THJ id do for GH of medical checks out

THJ + Delin is a clown offer

Well you threw out the numbers first saying that Hayward is a 20/5/5 guy.

You can say that he´s a creator and facilitator. No problem there. But he´s more of the 16/5/4 level, which I guess doesn´t sound as nice as 20/5/5, although you don´t care about the numbers.

I acknowledged that Hayward is better than THJ, so not sure why you come at me with that.

Ok he’s xy% of a 21/5.5/3.5 guy. His last two years in Utah. 

I’m not mad at all. Sorry if it comes across that way. If you don’t believe he has Utah GH in him when healthy, you don’t trade for him.  There’s always desperate teams. I don’t think you’re getting him for a pu pu platter. At least either 18 or Maxi.

[Tyler]

Supes: He's Atlanta first choice and we are his.

Could be. But if that's true, why delay the inevitable and push back the option date? IMO, this is setting up as the classic leverage situation where he's angling for a S&T to a 3rd team.

[Kammrath]

Could be. But if that's true, why delay the inevitable and push back the option date? IMO, this is setting up as the classic leverage situation where he's angling for a S&T to a 3rd team.

Exactly, zero reason to push back unless ATL is leverage.

[Jason Terry]

Boston had a deal for Hayward to Atlanta for the TPE

Haywards agent got word and put the breaks on everything with the threat to opt out

Hayward actually wants to play in Indy

Donnie is doing Danny a solid by driving the price up after his plans fell through

Hayward to Indy

Possibly could mean Oladipo to Dallas in the same trade

Possibly Boston stacking assets for a Harden trade

[Mavs2019]

Wrll weh

Dear Lord please stop. Health is the concern with GH. Otherwise, Hayward and THJ are not in the same stratosphere as players. Hayward made an all star team the west. He’s a 20/5/5 guy that can do a little bit of everything. THJ we kept from being a complete bum and one of the worst players in the nba by telling him to just catch and shoot off Luka dish outs.

---

Not going to disagree that Hayward is better than THJ, but he literally never had a 20/5/5 season.

He´s been averaging roughly 14.3/5.3/3.7, since his return from injury, obviously current season being better than the last, but nothing spectacular.

It´s actually not that far off the Oladipo post-injury numbers so far: 14.5/3.9/2.9. So with a similar positive progress Oladipo could be back to target status for 2021 FA.

I don’t know if I had this screen name on the old site but I literally could not give two shits about a guys counting stats. It’s all about role and opportunity. Julius Randle must be borderline all nba then because he could put up 20/10 easy. 


GH was the primary offense creator on a playoff team in the west. THJ was the primary bum on the Knicks. Switch their roles and I don’t think it’s close in terms of impact. 

once again the caveat is what your medical team says about Hayward.

I just don’t want to trade Maxi. 18+31+THJ id do for GH of medical checks out

THJ + Delin is a clown offer

Well you threw out the numbers first saying that Hayward is a 20/5/5 guy.

You can say that he´s a creator and facilitator. No problem there. But he´s more of the 16/5/4 level, which I guess doesn´t sound as nice as 20/5/5, although you don´t care about the numbers.

I acknowledged that Hayward is better than THJ, so not sure why you come at me with that.

Ok he’s xy% of a 21/5.5/3.5 guy. His last two years in Utah. 

I’m not mad at all. Sorry if it comes across that way. If you don’t believe he has Utah GH in him when healthy, you don’t trade for him.  There’s always desperate teams. I don’t think you’re getting him for a pu pu platter. At least either 18 or Maxi.

I´d say you pay him $100M over the next four years, because you think you get Utah Gordon Hayward.

Doesn´t mean that you have to pay for your future projection in the actual trade.

Hayward doesn´t make us a title contender now and we have no pressure right now.

We are at least another 24 months away from going full Jrue Holiday.   There will be opportunities. Patience is key. We are two days into this trade window and some are already worried, we´ll never get anybody.

[Aussiebballer]

What are Boston going to trade for Harden?
Jaylen Brown + picks?

Can't see this being good for Tatum, standing in the corner watching Harden dribble for 15 secs is really going to help Tatum improve!!!!

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/stat...8743049217

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Here's my prediction:

IF this happens (big IF), there will be people who love it and others who hate it, just like any other move. 

But, my feeling is that those who hate it will hate it because of the CONTRACT Hayward gets MORE than they hate what the Mavs send to Boston in the trade. 

Could be wrong.

I'm curious to hear what you would pay him contract wise. 
I think the 4 for 80 deal that's been thrown around for several different guys would make sense. Do you extend him and then do a 3 for 60? 

I'd do that. to me a good starter at 20 mill is completely fair pricing.

He’s not opting out for either of those deals.

[StepBackJay]

I would be surprised if Hayward takes a big haircut on that first year's salary. We will see. Horford got a 100 million dollar deal last year over 4 years, couldn't Hayward get like a 3 yr 100 mil deal from the Hawks? I don't see him taking a double-digit cut from his first year's salary. If he does that would be a first, I haven't seen that really.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Here is a point nobody has touched yet.

Why doesn´t Ainge simply extend Hayward or why doesn´t Hayward wait to sign an extension next summer?

He´s a starter on a title contender after all.

Why does Danny Ainge, one of the league´s leading GMs, decide that he does not want to hand such an extension to Gordon Hayward.

What are his concerns? Cause they should be ours.

Maybe he does not like the timeline with Tatum/Brown. Why do we with equally young Luka/Porzingis?

Maybe he believes Gordon Hayward on his downward age/health trajectory is an awful long-term investment next to two young studs.

Letting Hayward walk for nothing has no immediate impact on their capspace, to sign a different player. So why would Ainge not extend Hayward (as a trade asset)?

Maybe he thinks the contract Hayward wants will immediately be a liability and not an asset.

Those are all questions Ainge has played out in his head and HE DOES NOT WANT TO PAY Hayward.

This is almost the same scenario as DAJ and Jerry West. Luckily in that case, we only gave DAJ a one year deal. Imagine if we gave him four years like Hayward (likely) wants now. 

Huh? It’s because they have two elite wings. It’s like a stud backup qb. He’s worth a lot more to another team than the team he’s on. We have a PG and a center and no wings that start on a contender. He’s their third or even fourth best wing.

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status...1447827461

[Kammrath]

Horford got a 100 million dollar deal last year over 4 years, couldn't Hayward get like a 3 yr 100 mil deal from the Hawks? I don't see him taking a double-digit cut from his first year's salary.

Except the whole financial reality of the NBA was totally transformed for at least the next three years in the last 9 months. 

Horford means nothing for contracts moving forward.

[cjeter24]

Hardaway was 7th in 3s made last year. Hayward was 119. Even if you go with Haywards total his final year in Utah he is at 50th. 

That's a big drop off in shooting even tho Hayward is a very solid and capable shooter. He won't shoot at the same volume. 

With the amount of open looks Luka generates the drop in shooting isn't nothing. And outside of the all star year for Hayward more volume hasn't led to efficiency for him from 3. 

All that being said, I think Hayward is the better player when healthy clearly. But I think they are in the same range of each other. 

And that's not even bringing contracts into it. 
I'm just evaluating on recent history. GH has given me no reason to think he ever returns to prime Utah days.