GAME 3: POR (2-1) @ DAL (2-1) | 119-121 loss

[Fuerza1]

Where did Wright go down the stretch?  He needs to be on the floor in crunch time.  No one’s trying to run him off, but RC had a bizarre approach to close out this game, including keeping his challenge in his pocket.  I would say the officials seemed biased, and the big mistakes did go against the Mavs, but on the other hand, the Mavs lived on the line, so can’t really complain about the whistle. Portland is a middle of the pack playoff team (4-6 seed). Mavs need to beat teams like that on their home court 75% of the time.

Wright was getting lit up on defense against McCollum in the 2Q, which sparked POR's comeback. We brought him to lock guys down and he fell short tonight. He had the second worst +/- tonight, NEGATIVE NINE, only behind the glorious THJ. 

I actually thought RC made the right call to sit him out down the stretch, the team (or should I say DFS) was doing better without him. Sitting him didn't cost us the game, you could actually make the case playing him would have caused us to lose by more points!

[SleepingHero]

I'm voting df98 by a landslide in this discussion! Even though it hurts me to go against SleepingHero. But hey, Hero, you got bartletbear's support! :-)

The deal is. Luka's gotta realize that it's time to go to the basket when the 3 isn't falling. Working inside and using Seth got the lead! Shouldn't have gone back to the step back 3s.

Well Luka seems to agree so that settles that


https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status...6829518848

[j0Shi]

Bullets:

• Starting five much better this time. Although the first was a bit up and down, this was the best group so far. Unsurprisingly it featured our best players.
  
• It's a minor thing, but I LOVE Doncic taking these end of quarter prayers. It's a low percentage shot, but it's a shot.
  
• I like THJ sprinting the floor. I think he is a good finisher more than a good  shooter.
  
• Three point shooting will haunt us all season. 13-50 and losing by two is actually decent. Especially when you miss nine free throws as well.
  
• More tiny things that contributed to the loss: Felt like Doncic was forcing his shot a bit today. Reminded my of last year when he could either try by himself or pass to a brick.
  
• CJ and Dame were massive late, which is why I was surpirsed that Wright wasn't getting more playing time.
  
• Brunson with an off game tonight. He was +6, but rarely seen.
  
• Overall this is a 'good' loss I guess. Mavs for strecthes played some great ball against a good team in the West. They adjusted better in the second half, happens. It sucks we blew multiple leads, but I guess that's growing pains for the team. Of course we eventually have to win these type of games, but for now I'm not concerned.
  

[Kammrath]

Still maintain that....

KP
???
Luka
Delon
Seth

...is your best lineup for closing most nights. I like Brunson a lot, but I prefer Seth and Wright at this point.

[Jym]

If you want to blame Rick for anything, I guess you can point to preparation, but I have to just point at player execution if we're talking in-game.
I think this is a game we win in February when guys are more connected and dont have to think as much. Really liked the rotation and ending units. Maybe switch out Wright for Brunson but I was glad to see Curry out there.

[MrGoat]

Knew I was right to be worried about our defense. For once the refs were on our side most of the night and we still found a way to blow it.

Need to go back to starting Lee. 2-0 with him as a starter despite the optics

Luka and KP are still studs though

[SportPsychMav]

Problem this game, I repeat was stamina. Portland played a physical game, Dallas hustled a lot and played with loads of energy in the first. 

There were miles in quality between the halves. Chucking up bad (rushed) threes started in the 3rd.

Portland had no bench, played playoffstyle.

Powell definitely would have helped this game to mix it up for some easy offense. Hell Boban might have been a good idea up 20.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Still maintain that....

KP
???
Luka
Delon
Seth

...is your best lineup for closing most nights. I like Brunson a lot, but I prefer Seth and Wright at this point.

I wasn't a fan of the way Wright and Brunson were used last night.  Their time off the court should have probably been swapped.  If Brunson can run the second unit against a good team, then Luka wouldn't have to play nearly 38 minutes.  Wright's D is supposed to be better and his 2-man lineups with Luka are +11 while Brunson's 2-man lineups with Luka are -1.  Wright should have closed the game and there is certainly an argument he should start.  But, Wright's best game came as a backup.  At this early stage, we might have two guards who are best used off the bench (Wright and Brunson).  Getting the whole Wright/Curry/Brunson rotation right is an early challenge.  I agree that Curry deserves a bigger role.  

Another issue is that among the non-big/non-ball handlers (DFS, Jackson and THJ), DFS is CLEARLY outplaying the others.  Good for him, but will he get those PF minutes once Powell returns?  Who will sit?  Powell would have helped move the offense closer to the basket if he had played last night.  I'm starting to lean toward Powell as the leader of the bench mob and Maxi starting.

Right now we have plenty of bench players, but we don't have a bench.  One of Luka and KP played all but 1:30 last night (we were +9 in that 1:30).  In years past we have been able to survive (in fact thrive) with only bench guys on the floor.  Powell coming back should help that.  But, there has to be some spacing for Powell to work.  If Curry is a starter, it may be that DFS joins him rather than Wright and Wright/Brunson/Powell/THJ and Jackson is your bench.  I could also see Wright and DFS swapping out starting on a nightly basis depending on the size of the other team's best player.

[bartlettbear]

I'm voting df98 by a landslide in this discussion! Even though it hurts me to go against SleepingHero. But hey, Hero, you got bartletbear's support! :-)

The deal is. Luka's gotta realize that it's time to go to the basket when the 3 isn't falling. Working inside and using Seth got the lead! Shouldn't have gone back to the step back 3s.

Everyone is saying Luka needs go to the basket, what we are saying that is coaches job to put players in position to do that.  If Luka is taking bad shots (we all agree he was)  you call a play where he catches the ball on the block plain and simple that is coaching that is what coaches do. You all believe it is on the player to adjust but that is what coaches main job is.

[michaeltex]

Still maintain that....

KP
???
Luka
Delon
Seth

...is your best lineup for closing most nights. I like Brunson a lot, but I prefer Seth and Wright at this point.

I wasn't a fan of the way Wright and Brunson were used last night.  Their time off the court should have probably been swapped.  If Brunson can run the second unit against a good team, then Luka wouldn't have to play nearly 38 minutes.  Wright's D is supposed to be better and his 2-man lineups with Luka are +11 while Brunson's 2-man lineups with Luka are -1.  Wright should have closed the game and there is certainly an argument he should start.  But, Wright's best game came as a backup.  At this early stage, we might have two guards who are best used off the bench (Wright and Brunson).  Getting the whole Wright/Curry/Brunson rotation right is an early challenge.  I agree that Curry deserves a bigger role.  

Another issue is that among the non-big/non-ball handlers (DFS, Jackson and THJ), DFS is CLEARLY outplaying the others.  Good for him, but will he get those PF minutes once Powell returns?  Who will sit?  Powell would have helped move the offense closer to the basket if he had played last night.  I'm starting to lean toward Powell as the leader of the bench mob and Maxi starting.

Right now we have plenty of bench players, but we don't have a bench.  One of Luka and KP played all but 1:30 last night (we were +9 in that 1:30).  In years past we have been able to survive (in fact thrive) with only bench guys on the floor.  Powell coming back should help that.  But, there has to be some spacing for Powell to work.  If Curry is a starter, it may be that DFS joins him rather than Wright and Wright/Brunson/Powell/THJ and Jackson is your bench.  I could also see Wright and DFS swapping out starting on a nightly basis depending on the size of the other team's best player.

I agree that Powell could have helped. It seemed like we were missing something when Maxi went to the bench. I'm not saying he's the reason we lost, but it seemed like POR was able to get an inside-out game going once he went to the bench. KP was getting pushed around under the basket and not getting calls, resulting in being out of position for a lot of rebounds.

All the comments about efficiency and shot selection (especially in the 2nd half) were on the money. They seemed content to bail out to 3pters on a lot of possessions. More drives, especially once you were in the bonus, were a missing element.

 All that said, POR is a helluva team that made the WC finals last summer. I don't know how sustainable the big minutes are that CJ and Dame play, but this is definitely their year to go for it. Apart from remarkable shooting, they have a cohesiveness from a core playing together for a while. They should be what the Mavs aspire to, once this team has a chance to grow together. It will be a good measuring stick through the season to see how the Mavs fare against POR.

[fifteenth]

Right now we have plenty of bench players, but we don't have a bench.  One of Luka and KP played all but 1:30 last night (we were +9 in that 1:30).  In years past we have been able to survive (in fact thrive) with only bench guys on the floor.  Powell coming back should help that.  But, there has to be some spacing for Powell to work.  If Curry is a starter, it may be that DFS joins him rather than Wright and Wright/Brunson/Powell/THJ and Jackson is your bench.  I could also see Wright and DFS swapping out starting on a nightly basis depending on the size of the other team's best player.

I think we have the players to have a bench death lineup again, but maybe Powell is the missing piece. I've thought since the team building was complete this summer that (1) Brunson should be staggered with Luka (and share the floor a little so that Brunson gets enough minutes), and (2)  Brunson / Curry / Powell / Maxi + one more had the makings of one of our bench death lineups. 

Regarding Curry, I'd make him part of that lineup ^ and also make him a closer. 

The problem with all my plans is that I think that the Mavs really want to see Luka/KP/DP together. They think this creates an indefensible compliment of offensive skills. So how do you create our bench death lineup without Powell's 75% shooting off of Brunson and Curry lobs? 

I want 

Luka / Brunson
Delon / Curry
Jackson/ THJ
DFS / Maxi
KP / Powell

with a finishing 5 of

Luka 
Delon
Curry
DFS
KP

[ItsGoTime]

I wouldn't paint the game thread opinions as consensus or monolithic on anything.

Can I please have the ability to like this post 77 more times?

[fifteenth]

Everyone is saying Luka needs go to the basket, what we are saying that is coaches job to put players in position to do that.  If Luka is taking bad shots (we all agree he was)  you call a play where he catches the ball on the block plain and simple that is coaching that is what coaches do. You all believe it is on the player to adjust but that is what coaches main job is.

bb I can't take your RC stuff seriously because you'd criticize Rick for losing even if we lost by Luka going to basket and missing a shot at the rim or missing a floater. 

You and I have no idea what Rick and Luka talk about regarding these situations. Also, I said that Luka should have taken the ball to the basket because the second half told me that the team didn't have their legs. I think Rick may have told the team this because in the 4th quarter they did go to the basket more (but I have no idea what he told them). 

So yes, I think Luka should have gone to the basket. But that doesn't mean "Luka is taking bad shots" in general. Luka often makes those shots. He's won games with those shots. I don't want him to stop taking those shots. I just thought the situation last night called for going to the basket. 

But your scenario doesn't make sense because Luka is lethal at getting to the basket by starting from the perimeter. Rick doesn't have to call a play where Luka gets the ball on the block. Rick can tell him to try to get to the basket (I have no idea whether he did or not), but even then, Luka is the one with the ball in his hands, and this superstar/coach relationship surely involves Rick giving Luka a certain amount of leeway.

[omahen]

So how do you create our bench death lineup without Powell's 75% shooting off of Brunson and Curry lobs?

Why do you want a separate bench unit? This is the whole idea of staggering KP and Luka, so that we have 48 minutes of strong lineups on the floor. Portland also has all the time at least one of Lillard/CJ on the floor. 

We have a 10 strong rotation of role players and all line-ups will be fluid. How many times does RC need to repeat that :-) These are not consistent players as it can already be seen. One game they are invisible, next one they score 20 points. Just look at DFS, Maxi, Wright, Brunson production in first three games. This means RC will need to start a what he thinks is best starting five for each opponent and adjust during the flow of the game.

[ItsGoTime]

Everyone is saying Luka needs go to the basket, what we are saying that is coaches job to put players in position to do that.  If Luka is taking bad shots (we all agree he was)  you call a play where he catches the ball on the block plain and simple that is coaching that is what coaches do. You all believe it is on the player to adjust but that is what coaches main job is.

bb I can't take your RC stuff seriously because you'd criticize Rick for losing even if we lost by Luka going to basket and missing a shot at the rim or missing a floater. 

You and I have no idea what Rick and Luka talk about regarding these situations. Also, I said that Luka should have taken the ball to the basket because the second half told me that the team didn't have their legs. I think Rick may have told the team this because in the 4th quarter they did go to the basket more (but I have no idea what he told them). 

So yes, I think Luka should have gone to the basket. But that doesn't mean "Luka is taking bad shots" in general. Luka often makes those shots. He's won games with those shots. I don't want him to stop taking those shots. I just thought the situation last night called for going to the basket. 

But your scenario doesn't make sense because Luka is lethal at getting to the basket by starting from the perimeter. Rick doesn't have to call a play where Luka gets the ball on the block. Rick can tell him to try to get to the basket (I have no idea whether he did or not), but even then, Luka is the one with the ball in his hands, and this superstar/coach relationship surely involves Rick giving Luka a certain amount of leeway.

Wasn't it just last game where we had the story of RC yelling at Luka to "GO, GO" and Luka walking the ball up. It was either that or him waiving off an RC play to do what he thought should be done. In other words, just because the coach says it, doesn't mean the players always execute, or even try to do it. Fif is also right, we have no clue the conversations RC has with his players, so there's no possible way anyone can have a definitive thought on what he should've and shouldn't have done/said.

[fifteenth]

Why do you want a separate bench unit? This is the whole idea of staggering KP and Luka, so that we have 48 minutes of strong lineups on the floor. Portland also has all the time at least one of Lillard/CJ on the floor. 

We have a 10 strong rotation of role players and all line-ups will be fluid. How many times does RC need to repeat that :-) These are not consistent players as it can already be seen. One game they are invisible, next one they score 20 points. Just look at DFS, Maxi, Wright, Brunson production in first three games. This means RC will need to start a what he thinks is best starting five for each opponent and adjust during the flow of the game.

So, what, I'm not for 48 minutes of strong lineups? Come on now. And RC's comments about lineups being fluid are about the fact that he plays with lineups early in the season to find the combos that he likes, to get to know his players and to build data on different lineups. And I don't think that Luka and KP have to share all their minutes. 

I don't want the lineups to be completely binary. I want some measure of mixing and matching. But the reason I've had the thought of a cohesive bench unit is because the Mavs have had success with winning the bench battle the last few years by having a unit that destroyed the other team's bench. Various iterations involving JJB, Devin and Powell have built great chemistry and won their minutes. Now that the Mavs actually employ viable, even star level, starters, a killer bench unit would no longer be for naught. 

I know this can be done either way (a defined bench unit or completely fluid lineups). And like I said, I'm not for completely binary lineups. But I'm actually as much for Luka/Brunson being staggered as I am Luka/KP, and I'm for Brunson building some chemistry with some folks when he runs the team. I liked our death lineup.

[Fuerza1]

I wasn't a fan of the way Wright and Brunson were used last night.  Their time off the court should have probably been swapped.  If Brunson can run the second unit against a good team, then Luka wouldn't have to play nearly 38 minutes.  Wright's D is supposed to be better and his 2-man lineups with Luka are +11 while Brunson's 2-man lineups with Luka are -1.  Wright should have closed the game and there is certainly an argument he should start.  But, Wright's best game came as a backup.  At this early stage, we might have two guards who are best used off the bench (Wright and Brunson).  Getting the whole Wright/Curry/Brunson rotation right is an early challenge.  I agree that Curry deserves a bigger role. 

If we're going to compare how everyone pairs with Luka, it's only fair we see how everyone pairs with the other side of the coin: Porzingis.

Wright and Porzingis are supposed to be our elite defenders, right? Together they're at a -14.2 net rating!!! That is by far the worst significant pairing that doesn't include THJ. 

Brunson + Porzingis is at -3; Kleber + Porzingis hasn't been as ideal as, they're at -5.5!

Delon's defense has not been as advertised. His defensive rating is at 110 while his counterparts have fared much better: Brunson is at 99; Seth is at 99; and DFS is at 98. 

Porzingis' defensive rating is at 112, which is also not good. Is his offensive burden sacrificing too much of his defensive duties? POR seemed to score at will last night near the rim. 

Who knows what side is up or down this early in the season but these are fascinating things to keep an eye on going forward.

[fifteenth]

If we're going to compare how everyone pairs with Luka, it's only fair we see how everyone pairs with the other side of the coin: Porzingis.

Wright and Porzingis are supposed to be our elite defenders, right? Together they're at a -14.2 net rating!!! That is by far the worst significant pairing that doesn't include THJ. 

Brunson + Porzingis is at -3; Kleber + Porzingis hasn't been as ideal as, they're at -5.5!

Delon's defense has not been as advertised. His defensive rating is at 110 while his counterparts have fared much better: Brunson is at 99; Seth is at 99; and DFS is at 98. 

Porzingis' defensive rating is at 112, which is also not good. Is his offensive burden sacrificing too much of his defensive duties? POR seemed to score at will last night near the rim. 

Who knows what side is up or down this early in the season but these are fascinating things to keep an eye on going forward.

I don't think 5-man lineup +/- stats have much value this early in the season

[Kammrath]

I don't think 5-man lineup +/- stats have much value this early in the season

Looking at plus/minus (other than a snapshot of one game) is really useless until about 20 games......

....THEN I am going to start riding that horse hard.

[fifteenth]

Looking at plus/minus (other than a snapshot of one game) is really useless until about 20 games......

....THEN I am going to start riding that horse hard.

wait...hold on...you like +/- derivatives?