DAL OFFSEASON: Trade & FA | Mavs "mostly done...but you never know."

[ItsGoTime]

I still think you guys underrate Dipo and overrate guys like OPJ and Hield. Is is a very good offensive player but to me that's like just a better version of THJ. Dipo is a legit 2nd or 3rd option on a contending team. 

The other guy I really like is Josh Richardson, who isn't a star but checks all the boxes I think you'd want in your starting SG. I think it would cost you a Seth Curry but I'd be willing to do that to get a starting SG.

THJ could be flipped for something else or you could try him again as your 6th man.

I honestly don't know enough about Dipo to get into this conversation as I haven't paid attention to him much when he's in town and don't really pay attention to the Pacers all that much except for Turner. He sounds like he COULD very well be the perfect fit and an amazing player. He also sounds like he COULD be 1 and done here and/or Wes Matthews. That dude is probably what most of these guys are picturing when they think about Dipo's injury and I don't really blame them.

[StepBackJay]

Comparing him to post-achilles Matthews is just a completely unfair comparison. Achilles is the worst injury in basketball and Matthews was never an all-star.

[SamStetz]

Originally I did not think this would work salary wise, but tradenba.com says that Wright + Jackson for OPJ is legal. If that’s the case, I’m willing to put 31 in there, or at least swap second rounders with them for this draft

[StepBackJay]

Originally I did not think this would work salary wise, but tradenba.com says that Wright + Jackson for OPJ is legal. If that’s the case, I’m willing to put 31 in there, or at least swap second rounders with them for this draft

Wright+Jackson+18 for OPJ would definitely be a good trade imo. Mavs would get their wing and dump Wright's money. It's hard to picture what the Bulls want for OPJ but since they are rebuilding you could guess they could get a younger 3D player in the draft for #18.

[ItsGoTime]

Chi got him for Portis, Parker and a protected 23 second.

Yes, because he had a multiyear overpaid contract. He is expiring now, huge difference.
Ok, I give you this is not a bad counter. It was only 1.25 years more than now, but it was longer. Expiring comes with it's own set of risks though on a player a team wants to keep.

THJ alone beats that deal so your THJ and Jackson deal without picks works just fine

I don't see why Chicago would do that without at least #18. They don't need THJ, they need OPJ. And the deal only saves them a couple of millions. So no motivation on this end either.
I myself would do 18 on top, I don't think that's a bad deal either. I stopped attaching this year's picks once Dan started chastising me for doing it with THJ. Perhaps 2025 protected first, I'd do that if we believe he's a guy that would resign. I'd also attach the signing rights to our 18th pick in the deal, I believe OPJ is that much of an upgrade. He won't be 28 until roughly next offseason so he's right in his prime years.

They save lots of money

Not really, they save less than 5 million. 
Give yourself "less than $5M" and say that again.

Did you just say you didn't think Chi was rebuilding?

Yeah, perhaps not correct word. They are in a rebuilding process, but they will certainly not be tanking. They already said they want to be better. They also brought a serious coach. And even if they would be tanking, that is just another reason for them not to do the trade without at least one FRP attached, since we are not giving young players with upside.
I have no clue why Chi fans and beat writers have said they think OPJ is a problem that needs to be purged, which is what started this as a wishlist project for me, but they have. Because of that, I want him close to as much as I wanted RoCo, which I have no idea why any team would get rid of him either. If he's leaving Chicago, I want him coming to Dallas, plain and simple.

THJ + Jackson + 23 second is pretty close if not the best offer they get for OPJ IMO

Might be, it is difficult to match his salary and improve. But this doesn't mean they will accept it. I wouldn't. I mean, why would I? If you think THJ is better or equal player to OPJ, why are you trading him?
Read the above.

I'm glad you concede the rest of what I wrote, makes this back and forth much easier.

Last thing, I said "hopefully not 3rd best, but 3rd in number" in a parenthetical caveat to OPJ. I meant hopefully not 3rd best offensive player, not 3rd best overall, because with his defensive capability, he would be just as important as most 22ppg offense mostly players we could bring in. For instance, I believe OPJ's game to be more valuable to this team than Lavine's, who I believe offensively would be stymied by Luka and KP's presence (either that or one of those two's offense would be stymied from his presence, either way, it's too much high powered offense on a starting unit).

[SamStetz]

Originally I did not think this would work salary wise, but tradenba.com says that Wright + Jackson for OPJ is legal. If that’s the case, I’m willing to put 31 in there, or at least swap second rounders with them for this draft

Wright+Jackson+18 for OPJ would definitely be a good trade imo. Mavs would get their wing and dump Wright's money. It's hard to picture what the Bulls want for OPJ but since they are rebuilding you could guess they could get a younger 3D player in the draft for #18.

If it took 18 and we could keep 31 I 100% do it. Honestly, even if it takes 18 and 31, I probably still do it (but I’d ask for their 2020 second from MEM, or a 2021 second)

[StepBackJay]

Originally I did not think this would work salary wise, but tradenba.com says that Wright + Jackson for OPJ is legal. If that’s the case, I’m willing to put 31 in there, or at least swap second rounders with them for this draft

From another trade checker:
"Due to Dallas being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Dallas could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

Due to Chicago being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Chicago could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement."

I bet this assumes THJ does not opt-in which could allow Mavs to stay under the cap to absorb OPJ's deal. Assuming THJ does opt-in I don't think this would be a legal trade.

[ItsGoTime]

Comparing him to post-achilles Matthews is just a completely unfair comparison. Achilles is the worst injury in basketball and Matthews was never an all-star.

I don't fully disagree, but there was an article posted here that said the injury to VO could be worse than the achilles tear (I only read the title though, not the article, so it could be bait-click titling). Also, Matthews is a pretty fresh wound to our fanbase, it's on the mend, but might be too new for some people. Not lumping myself into the group, just trying help you make sense of it.

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Originally I did not think this would work salary wise, but tradenba.com says that Wright + Jackson for OPJ is legal. If that’s the case, I’m willing to put 31 in there, or at least swap second rounders with them for this draft

Wright+Jackson+18 for OPJ would definitely be a good trade imo. Mavs would get their wing and dump Wright's money. It's hard to picture what the Bulls want for OPJ but since they are rebuilding you could guess they could get a younger 3D player in the draft for #18.

There's something screwy going on with the trade machines right now cause JJ for OPJ works too, and I know there's no way that actually works salary-wise.

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I bet this assumes THJ does not opt-in which could allow Mavs to stay under the cap to absorb OPJ's deal. Assuming THJ does opt-in I don't think this would be a legal trade.

Ah, there's the deal.

[SamStetz]

Originally I did not think this would work salary wise, but tradenba.com says that Wright + Jackson for OPJ is legal. If that’s the case, I’m willing to put 31 in there, or at least swap second rounders with them for this draft

From another trade checker:
"Due to Dallas being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Dallas could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

Due to Chicago being under the cap and choosing to invoke the Cap Room rule, Chicago could not go over the cap by more than $100,000 of post-trade Team Salary, which did happen here.

This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement."

I bet this assumes THJ does not opt-in which could allow Mavs to stay under the cap to absorb OPJ's deal. Assuming THJ does opt-in I don't think this would be a legal trade.

I thought something was off with that. Thanks for checking! Tradenba.com still has the trade as legal when you accept THJ player option so something else must be off on their site right now. 

Another way to accomplish the same trade would be to agree to the deal before a draft of Wright + Jackson + 18 + 31 for OPJ + 44. Dallas would sign 18 and 31, wait for 30 days and then use their salary to match OPJ. 

It would take a lot of agreement and waiting around which could hurt the deal a little, but it allows you to still accomplish the same trade just 30 days later due to draft pick trading and salary matching rules

[ItsGoTime]

Another way to accomplish the same trade would be to agree to the deal before a draft of Wright + Jackson + 18 + 31 for OPJ + 44. Dallas would sign 18 and 31, wait for 30 days and then use their salary to match OPJ. 

It would take a lot of agreement and waiting around which could hurt the deal a little, but it allows you to still accomplish the same trade just 30 days later due to draft pick trading and salary matching rules

I believe you can trade the signing rights to a player you drafted and haven't signed yet at the beginning of FA, which makes the wait less, which in turn makes the deal more viable, still not probable due to the nature of it not really being done before...that we know of.

[SamStetz]

Another way to accomplish the same trade would be to agree to the deal before a draft of Wright + Jackson + 18 + 31 for OPJ + 44. Dallas would sign 18 and 31, wait for 30 days and then use their salary to match OPJ. 

It would take a lot of agreement and waiting around which could hurt the deal a little, but it allows you to still accomplish the same trade just 30 days later due to draft pick trading and salary matching rules

I believe you can trade the signing rights to a player you drafted and haven't signed yet at the beginning of FA, which makes the wait less, which in turn makes the deal more viable, still not probable due to the nature of it not really being done before...that we know of.

You can trade the signing rights, but I believe they count as $0 salary toward the trade. By signing them first, you are able to salary match without needing to include a Curry/Maxi/Courtney S&T as part of the deal because you’d be able to salary match with the now signed draft picks

[ItsGoTime]

Another way to accomplish the same trade would be to agree to the deal before a draft of Wright + Jackson + 18 + 31 for OPJ + 44. Dallas would sign 18 and 31, wait for 30 days and then use their salary to match OPJ. 

It would take a lot of agreement and waiting around which could hurt the deal a little, but it allows you to still accomplish the same trade just 30 days later due to draft pick trading and salary matching rules

I believe you can trade the signing rights to a player you drafted and haven't signed yet at the beginning of FA, which makes the wait less, which in turn makes the deal more viable, still not probable due to the nature of it not really being done before...that we know of.

You can trade the signing rights, but I believe they count as $0 salary toward the trade. By signing them first, you are able to salary match without needing to include a Curry/Maxi/Courtney S&T as part of the deal because you’d be able to salary match with the now signed draft picks

Now you're assuming that their salary puts this deal over the top when the trade machines are doing something screwy, which honestly, I don't believe Wright + JJ + any amount of rookie salary = trade salary match for OPJ.

[loki]

Dallas would have to send out about $22.7M in salary to trade for OPJ. If it's a draft night deal, OPJ would also have to agree to an early opt-in of his last year. That might be realistic since he gets out of a losing situation in Chicago, but the same thing would apply to THJ opting in if he is part of the trade. I can't see Tim agreeing to opt-in early so he can be shipped to a lottery team.

A deal at the trade deadline seems a lot more likely. Whether we have the ammo to pull it off could depend on what we do with our draft picks and the MLE this offseason. Sending THJ for OPJ feels a little weird in general. Chicago has no real use for Hardaway, so finding a third team could be necessary. But then that third team would almost certainly prefer to just take OPJ. Without THJ, it becomes very difficult to match salaries. I wouldn't mind bringing Courtney Lee back on a big one year contract so we have the necessary expirings to pull a trade like this off.

The alternative is to simply wait until 2021 and sign OPJ in free agency without giving up any assets. I'm very impatient to see the roster improved, but this is probably the best way to go unless we can really fleece Chicago.

[ItsGoTime]

The alternative is to simply wait until 2021 and sign OPJ in free agency without giving up any assets. I'm very impatient to see the roster improved, but this is probably the best way to go unless we can really fleece Chicago.

This is another angle of why Chi should trade him sooner rather than later. I don't believe they would resign him for what he's going to command in FA. Trading him early for THJ allows them to have another expiring in a less hindering salary to trade at the TDL if they decide to go that route that saves them immediate money all while hoping THJ is their "Finley" type guy [good veteran presence (along with the occasional visit from dad) that gets the lockerroom under control for their rebuild] so they can keep him and move on from Lavine and get a good package for him.

[loki]

The alternative is to simply wait until 2021 and sign OPJ in free agency without giving up any assets. I'm very impatient to see the roster improved, but this is probably the best way to go unless we can really fleece Chicago.

This is another angle of why Chi should trade him sooner rather than later. I don't believe they would resign him for what he's going to command in FA. Trading him early for THJ allows them to have another expiring in a less hindering salary to trade at the TDL if they decide to go that route that saves them immediate money all while hoping THJ is their "Finley" type guy [good veteran presence (along with the occasional visit from dad) that gets the lockerroom under control for their rebuild] so they can keep him and move on from Lavine and get a good package for him.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that the Bulls see it that way, but I believe a contender is going to value THJ more than a rebuilding team. If he becomes your first or second option, I would expect him to revert to his inefficient Knicks days.

[ItsGoTime]

The alternative is to simply wait until 2021 and sign OPJ in free agency without giving up any assets. I'm very impatient to see the roster improved, but this is probably the best way to go unless we can really fleece Chicago.

This is another angle of why Chi should trade him sooner rather than later. I don't believe they would resign him for what he's going to command in FA. Trading him early for THJ allows them to have another expiring in a less hindering salary to trade at the TDL if they decide to go that route that saves them immediate money all while hoping THJ is their "Finley" type guy [good veteran presence (along with the occasional visit from dad) that gets the lockerroom under control for their rebuild] so they can keep him and move on from Lavine and get a good package for him.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that the Bulls see it that way, but I believe a contender is going to value THJ more than a rebuilding team. If he becomes your first or second option, I would expect him to revert to his inefficient Knicks days.

For sure more contenders would value THJ. I just presented THJ representing multiple options for a rebuilding team, hopefully one of them (or any reason not stated) is what they can talk themselves into, cause OPJ on this team would be a home run, not grand slam, but home run!

[StepBackJay]

Dallas would have to send out about $22.7M in salary to trade for OPJ. If it's a draft night deal, OPJ would also have to agree to an early opt-in of his last year. That might be realistic since he gets out of a losing situation in Chicago, but the same thing would apply to THJ opting in if he is part of the trade. I can't see Tim agreeing to opt-in early so he can be shipped to a lottery team.

A deal at the trade deadline seems a lot more likely. Whether we have the ammo to pull it off could depend on what we do with our draft picks and the MLE this offseason. Sending THJ for OPJ feels a little weird in general. Chicago has no real use for Hardaway, so finding a third team could be necessary. But then that third team would almost certainly prefer to just take OPJ. Without THJ, it becomes very difficult to match salaries. I wouldn't mind bringing Courtney Lee back on a big one year contract so we have the necessary expirings to pull a trade like this off.

The alternative is to simply wait until 2021 and sign OPJ in free agency without giving up any assets. I'm very impatient to see the roster improved, but this is probably the best way to go unless we can really fleece Chicago.

I think the opt in/out deadlines are prior to the draft.

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I think any OPJ deal would probably involve Wright and THJ outgoing plus a pick or two. Bulls likely have no use for THJ so I imagine there'd be a third team acquiring THJ and sending out pieces that the Bulls would be interested in. Or Bulls would just hold onto THJ (since 18 is already the prize) and then flip him later. THJ is probably worth at least a late first round pick to a contender.

[loki]

Dallas would have to send out about $22.7M in salary to trade for OPJ. If it's a draft night deal, OPJ would also have to agree to an early opt-in of his last year. That might be realistic since he gets out of a losing situation in Chicago, but the same thing would apply to THJ opting in if he is part of the trade. I can't see Tim agreeing to opt-in early so he can be shipped to a lottery team.

A deal at the trade deadline seems a lot more likely. Whether we have the ammo to pull it off could depend on what we do with our draft picks and the MLE this offseason. Sending THJ for OPJ feels a little weird in general. Chicago has no real use for Hardaway, so finding a third team could be necessary. But then that third team would almost certainly prefer to just take OPJ. Without THJ, it becomes very difficult to match salaries. I wouldn't mind bringing Courtney Lee back on a big one year contract so we have the necessary expirings to pull a trade like this off.

The alternative is to simply wait until 2021 and sign OPJ in free agency without giving up any assets. I'm very impatient to see the roster improved, but this is probably the best way to go unless we can really fleece Chicago.

I think the opt in/out deadlines are prior to the draft.

The deadline is normally June 29th which is after the draft. I'm not sure what date it has been moved to, but I assumed it would stay post draft. That could be wrong though as I haven't heard an exact date.

[KillerLeft]

I just can't imagine that Donnie/Cuban are sitting around dreaming about ways of turning THJ into OPJ right now.

[ItsGoTime]

Dallas would have to send out about $22.7M in salary to trade for OPJ. If it's a draft night deal, OPJ would also have to agree to an early opt-in of his last year. That might be realistic since he gets out of a losing situation in Chicago, but the same thing would apply to THJ opting in if he is part of the trade. I can't see Tim agreeing to opt-in early so he can be shipped to a lottery team.

A deal at the trade deadline seems a lot more likely. Whether we have the ammo to pull it off could depend on what we do with our draft picks and the MLE this offseason. Sending THJ for OPJ feels a little weird in general. Chicago has no real use for Hardaway, so finding a third team could be necessary. But then that third team would almost certainly prefer to just take OPJ. Without THJ, it becomes very difficult to match salaries. I wouldn't mind bringing Courtney Lee back on a big one year contract so we have the necessary expirings to pull a trade like this off.

The alternative is to simply wait until 2021 and sign OPJ in free agency without giving up any assets. I'm very impatient to see the roster improved, but this is probably the best way to go unless we can really fleece Chicago.

I think the opt in/out deadlines are prior to the draft.

The deadline is normally June 29th which is after the draft. I'm not sure what date it has been moved to, but I assumed it would stay post draft. That could be wrong though as I haven't heard an exact date.

Yes, the day after the draft, which means it would be harder to get these guys to do so before or on the day of. I can see the reason OPJ would, but not THJ as I believe you stated previously.