Luka Dealt to Lakers: Nico Harrison is a Basketball Terrorist

[burekemde]

I just cant watch.   I have seen highlights and checked the box score, but man the next so many years are going to be rough.

Yeah, like the next 10 years. What a decade.

[ThisIStheYear]

22-6-13 with a block and a steal on 54% shooting for Grimes tonight. Nico’s nightmare GM terrorism continues.

[Mavs2021]

Nico tried to isolate Luka.  Got rid of the training staff he liked. Prevented collaboration between the Mav’s and Luka’s training teams.  He wanted to teach Luka a lesson because as a shoe salesman, of course he knows more than an iconic international superstar basketball player. The Lakers embrace Luka and his team, and the organization understands what it’s like to have an iconic, face of the league type player. The Mavs don’t. It’s night and day for Luka.

The NBA has a huge financial operation with the UAE, of which you only see the surface with the NBA Cup. They will probably get NBA Europe off the ground together, which is another billion dollar endeavour. They lend a hedge fond 15 billion dollars, who bought the Lakers a few weeks later after Luka went there and then the Mavs get the #1 pick. Basically the greatest sports franchise in America is secretly owned by the "bad guys". Imagine if the Trumpies or Jack Bauer found out.

Wouldn´t surprise me, if this went even deeper politically. This all just big business for the NBA, Nike, Adelsons and the Royal Family. They are making money. They playing politics. Nico probably opening Nike shoe stores in Dubai like Trump is opening golf courses.

[david75090]

Luka is not just a big star in the NBA. He's international. A young star. It does look fishy, that a star of that level is inexplicably traded, to anyone. Trading him for a bag of beans to the most glamorous franchise in the league, that's then sold for mega-money. Dallas miraculously gets the first pick in the draft. I can see how someone would think it's scripted.

[Chicagojk]

22-6-13 with a block and a steal on 54% shooting for Grimes tonight. Nico’s nightmare GM terrorism continues.

I made a comment after the trade that some teams might prefer Martin to Grimes.  I thought that was a fair comment.  

Unfortunately Grimes has gone up a level or two since the trade and Martin has been unable to capture his play from Miami.    

If you watch Grimes play, him and Christie at the 2 would have been good now.   That may have been a long range setup.

[KillerLeft]

I made a comment after the trade that some teams might prefer Martin to Grimes.  I thought that was a fair comment.  

Unfortunately Grimes has gone up a level or two since the trade and Martin has been unable to capture his play from Miami.    

If you watch Grimes play, him and Christie at the 2 would have been good now.   That may have been a long range setup.

The part that I continue to be unable to get past is that Kidd wasn't playing him. So, either Kidd didn't think he was any good (right or wrong), or there was something about Grimes behind the scenes that Kidd/the rest of the organization didn't enjoy. None of us know for sure, but I just don't feel like Grimes would have gotten the opportunity to play he got and is getting in Philly. 

The trade, and what we think about Martin...this is a separate conversation to me. What I don't think we can say is that Grimes would even be playing here, or even that he'd still be here had the trade not happened. Flatly, I don't think the Mavericks wanted him anymore, whether we think that's dumb or not.

[mvossman]

I made a comment after the trade that some teams might prefer Martin to Grimes.  I thought that was a fair comment.  

Unfortunately Grimes has gone up a level or two since the trade and Martin has been unable to capture his play from Miami.    

If you watch Grimes play, him and Christie at the 2 would have been good now.   That may have been a long range setup.

I remember pointing out our last experience trading for a guy who had one or two good years in Miami and then went on to struggle in Philly, Josh Richardson.  It seems like Miami can get something out of some guys that other teams can't.  At the time I was more upset about losing the better younger player and paying an asset to do it, but I was not anticipating him becoming a negative asset almost immediately (although the warning signs were there given the age, poor play in Philly and injury that turned out to be worse than advertised).

[mvossman]

The part that I continue to be unable to get past is that Kidd wasn't playing him. So, either Kidd didn't think he was any good (right or wrong), or there was something about Grimes behind the scenes that Kidd/the rest of the organization didn't enjoy. None of us know for sure, but I just don't feel like Grimes would have gotten the opportunity to play he got and is getting in Philly. 

The trade, and what we think about Martin...this is a separate conversation to me. What I don't think we can say is that Grimes would even be playing here, or even that he'd still be here had the trade not happened. Flatly, I don't think the Mavericks wanted him anymore, whether we think that's dumb or not.

He did not play him as much as I wanted him to, but he still got 23 minutes a game.  I think the biggest issue from a minutes standpoint was the fact that he was redundant with Klay.  I'm sure Nico wanted to ditch him because he didn't sign at the beginning of the season, and maybe Kidd did have an issue with him, but as we watch this play out it seems like Nico/Kidd not getting out of him what Philly has is more of an organizational failure than a good reason for that trade.

[KillerLeft]

but as we watch this play out it seems like Nico/Kidd not getting out of him what Philly has is more of an organizational failure than a good reason for that trade.

I can see this POV, for sure, and I'm not really concerned with whether or not it was a good trade. Litigating that (still) seems pointless and boring to me. What I'm pushing back against is the idea that he (Grimes) would be contributing here and now what he is in Philly. For whatever reason, the circumstances leading up to that trade didn't make me feel that was likely, and that feeling hasn't changed. 

In general, it's getting really tiresome that this board can't get past last season. I don't know what is left to accomplish by discussing these things anymore. Harrison hasn't been fired, and there's no indication that he will be any time soon. Lindsey, the guy who brought in Grant Williams and really wanted to give TWO first round picks for Kyle Kuzma (going off of the prevailing logic that he was in charge while here, despite literally no evidence of that), doesn't work here anymore and isn't coming back. No amount of negative posts on a message board the Mavs don't know exists will bring about any change in those realities. All it's doing is dragging the few of us who are trying to enjoy this season into the drudge of misery the majority seem determined to live in. 

Not sure how much longer I can read the exact, same negative posts from the exact, same negative people (not directed at you, Mvossman, just at the conversation we're having).

[KillerLeft]

Let me put it another way:

AD and Kyrie are here because of Harrison. He likes them and they like him. He's here at least as long as those guys are.

He drafted Cooper Flagg, and you can bet your bottom dollar he's doing everything he can to make sure their relationship is more effective than what he had with Luka, so I'm not sure Harrison's support from the locker room ends with the AD/Kyrie tenures, honestly.

But the biggest thing is this: nobody cares what Cuban thinks anymore, and the new owners, including the guy acting as Governor, are very, very, VERY clearly focused on extending their web of influence into the Dallas political scene so that they can rearrange the real estate in their favor. They're 100X more focused on this new war with the Dallas Stars than they are with anything having to do with the Mavericks' on court play. What this means to me is this: I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think there even IS someone with a voice on the basketball side to whom it would even occur to fire Nico Harrison. I think he literally IS the basketball side of the organization. That's just the way it is until something forces change, and the only "something" I can think of that would force change is people not buying tickets. Does anyone think that's likely to happen, if it hasn't to start this season?

I just do not understand getting hung up on this stuff. We always have a choice as human beings, but in this case the choice is simply to care about the Mavericks, given the circumstances we can't control, or to NOT care about the Mavericks. That's it - there's no other choice. No judgement hurled at anyone who stops following the team and (by extension) stops posting here. We've lost several great, great posters since the Luka trade, and while I miss them, I respect their ability to control their free time - it's admirable, really. The people who very clearly HATE the Mavericks and will not stop coming by here to defecate in the freshly made punch are draining my will to live. I wish they'd get a life already.

[mvossman]

Let me put it another way:

AD and Kyrie are here because of Harrison. He likes them and they like him. He's here at least as long as those guys are.

He drafted Cooper Flagg, and you can bet your bottom dollar he's doing everything he can to make sure their relationship is more effective than what he had with Luka, so I'm not sure Harrison's support from the locker room ends with the AD/Kyrie tenures, honestly.

But the biggest thing is this: nobody cares what Cuban thinks anymore, and the new owners, including the guy acting as Governor, are very, very, VERY clearly focused on extending their web of influence into the Dallas political scene so that they can rearrange the real estate in their favor. They're 100X more focused on this new war with the Dallas Stars than they are with anything having to do with the Mavericks' on court play. What this means to me is this: I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think there even IS someone with a voice on the basketball side to whom it would even occur to fire Nico Harrison. I think he literally IS the basketball side of the organization. That's just the way it is until something forces change, and the only "something" I can think of that would force change is people not buying tickets. Does anyone think that's likely to happen, if it hasn't to start this season?

I just do not understand getting hung up on this stuff. We always have a choice as human beings, but in this case the choice is simply to care about the Mavericks, given the circumstances we can't control, or to NOT care about the Mavericks. That's it - there's no other choice. No judgement hurled at anyone who stops following the team and (by extension) stops posting here. We've lost several great, great posters since the Luka trade, and while I miss them, I respect their ability to control their free time - it's admirable, really. The people who very clearly HATE the Mavericks and will not stop coming by here to defecate in the freshly made punch are draining my will to live. I wish they'd get a life already.

I think part of what is happening is that a lot of folks got super upset with the TDL moves and bitched on this board (and others) for months as a kind of cathartic exercise.  I think a lot of those folks would have been done with the Mavs or this board or both after last season.  But then the miracle struck, and a lot of folks with no hope got sucked back in.  But in the small sample of season so far, it has become clear to those folks that Flagg is not going to single handedly turn a franchise around in a year or two like Luka did, we can't see any part of the vision because many of the main parts are frustratingly injured again, and meanwhile the guys that got traded away are putting up big numbers.  I think the Flagg tease brought some folks back in, but the beginning to this season is reopening all of the old wounds from last season.

I really hope you are wrong about ownership and Nico.

[Mavs2021]

I think part of what is happening is that a lot of folks got super upset with the TDL moves and bitched on this board (and others) for months as a kind of cathartic exercise.  I think a lot of those folks would have been done with the Mavs or this board or both after last season.  But then the miracle struck, and a lot of folks with no hope got sucked back in.  But in the small sample of season so far, it has become clear to those folks that Flagg is not going to single handedly turn a franchise around in a year or two like Luka did, we can't see any part of the vision because many of the main parts are frustratingly injured again, and meanwhile the guys that got traded away are putting up big numbers.  I think the Flagg tease brought some folks back in, but the beginning to this season is reopening all of the old wounds from last season.

Agreed. I´m one of these people and I have quickly lost interest in watching the games, just like in SL and pre-season. 

I thought it´s my reasonable hate for AD, but it´s actually the ownership and front office that is such a turn off. 

Cuban was a far far below average owner, but at least he cared and for a while he could outspend his incompetence. 

Apart from their incompetence, nothing to me suggests that this ownership group cares about the fans or winning.

[ThisIStheYear]

Whenever I see Luka in a graphic, Wilt and MJ are usually the other two people in it. That says all you need to know about how Nico is an absolute GM basketball terrorist.

[Kidnova]

 ...But in the small sample of season so far, it has become clear to those folks that Flagg is not going to single handedly turn a franchise around in a year or two like Luka did,

It seems a bit knee-jerk to come to that conclusion after 8 games.  The Mavs were 33-49 Luka's rookie year.  They improved quickly but were first round outs the next two seasons.  I don't think that CF is going to make the same offensive jump from year 1 to 2 that Luka did, but he's already a significantly better defensive player than Luka ever has been or will be.

[omahen]

It seems a bit knee-jerk to come to that conclusion after 8 games.  The Mavs were 33-49 Luka's rookie year.  They improved quickly but were first round outs the next two seasons.  I don't think that CF is going to make the same offensive jump from year 1 to 2 that Luka did, but he's already a significantly better defensive player than Luka ever has been or will be.

This discussion is just running endlessly in circles. Mavs were not a finals team one year before Luka joined them. Flagg came into completely different situation, as Nico advertised that his Luka trade was made because they have a better chance to win a title now. He also added that they will be better long-term, which basically nobody believed.

In reality, they failed to reach playoffs in year 1. After that they got lucky and added a number one pick to a team, that is build to win a championship now. One would think that he would see an improvement this year, while in reality Mavs are several levels worse so far. The way it goes, by the time Kyrie will be ready to return, it will not make any more sense for him to return, as they will be so far behind.  

This is not on Flagg. This is on complete organizational disaster Mavs have been on all levels. GM makes a trade that is immediately called worst in all professional sports by some analytics. They allienated most of fanbase by a complete PR disaster in days and months after the trade. The dysfunction in the medical staff may or may not be connected to huge amount of injuries during last and this season, it certainly doesn't help. Nico called last year medical team he hired best in the world. Only to fire halg of them a week or two later. He hired new guys, but things don't look any better in this area. No matter who is playing or not playing this season, Mavs offense is becoming a disaster of historical proportions. The injuries are a poor excuse for the offensive fiasco - I have already listed examples of teams missing all their key creators and still posting good offensive numbers against a good defense. Mavs can't score 100 points against 3rd worst defense in the league missing their star player Zion. The disastrous offense is mostly on coaching, imho. Thinking Kyrie can make this team a contender (Nico vision even without lucking into Flagg), looks like huge delusion currently. 

Nico has to go and Kidd has to go. The only way for this organization to start healing and playing as a serious team.

[KillerLeft]

This discussion is just running endlessly in circles.

Agreed, so I’m not sure why you or anyone else wishes to keep adding to it.

[omahen]

Agreed, so I’m not sure why you or anyone else wishes to keep adding to it.

I responded because some seem to have forgotten that Mavs plan was not to tank for Cooper Flagg and then grow through years of learning before becoming a contender after building a team around him. Mavs plan was to win a title in next three seasons by swapping Luka for Davis (Flagg was not part of this master plan). It is not looking great currently.

[KillerLeft]

I responded because some seem to have forgotten that Mavs plan was not to tank for Cooper Flagg and then grow through years of learning before becoming a contender after building a team around him. Mavs plan was to win a title in next three seasons by swapping Luka for Davis (Flagg was not part of this master plan). It is not looking great currently.

I 100% promise you that nobody has forgotten that. 

Some of us are just trying to find the best way forward FROM HERE. You know, because we’re Mavs fans.

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

As bad as things are, I really feel if they were to just make the obvious move and fire Nico, everyone would breathe a sigh of relief and have some hope again.

[numnuts23]

Luka is averaging 15 FTs a game right now....the Laker affect is in full motion