TRADE: Caleb Martin + 2030 2nd to Dallas | Grimes + PHI 2nd heads to 76ers

[Smitty]

So, if Martin waives his trade bonus. The Mavs save $1,222,350 and remain $1,393,470 below the first apron?

If not, they're just under by $171,120.


Did AD really waive his kicker so the Mavs could do the Grimes for Martin trade? There has to be more, right?

[mvossman]

Lonzo would be a great solution if he could shoot a lick. But he can't. So he isn't.

He can handle the ball, and defend. But that shooting element that's missing is a really big deal. And his health is questionable.

As a freebie (on a buyout), he probably won't hurt. But I think he's way more desirable from afar than if you have to watch him play every day.

Lonzo is a significantly better shooter than the guy we just traded for.

[Smitty]

Lonzo is a significantly better shooter than the guy we just traded for.

Yeah, but you didn't factor in the "Luka bump". Oh wait...

[DanSchwartzgan]

So, if Martin waives his trade bonus. The Mavs save $1,222,350 and remain $1,393,470 below the first apron?

If not, they're just under by $171,120.


Did AD really waive his kicker so the Mavs could do the Grimes for Martin trade? There has to be more, right?

Spotrac is reporting this as the latter...we are $171,120 under the 1st apron.  I don't know if that is official or just them assuming.  Martin had a trade kicker and ULI which both go into the apron math.

We are at 14 players and this tight to the apron (assuming Spotrac is correct).  So, any trade likely brings back less salary now, not more.

[F Gump]

He has shown no hint he can replace what Grimes brought. 

We'll see. But my point is that the relative salaries drove this deal. I believe Grimes evolved into having no value at all to the Mavs (because of his price tag which they are not interested in paying). This is their move to get something of value for him, rather than just watch him walk for nothing in the summer. I think Martin has value especially to better teams, because of his stellar defense.

Of course this just reinforces my thought that this team badly needed to re-sign DJJ, because he had talents that filled key needs on this roster, and Nico messed it up (even though his price tag was very affordable). I think there's been a real domino effect from that failure.

If Martin could fill that DJJ hole, it would be ideal. He's a very good defender.

[mvossman]

We'll see. But my point is that the relative salaries drove this deal. I believe Grimes evolved into having no value at all to the Mavs (because of his price tag which they are not interested in paying). This is their move to get something of value for him, rather than just watch him walk for nothing in the summer. I think Martin has value especially to better teams, because of his stellar defense.

Of course this just reinforces my thought that this team badly needed to re-sign DJJ, because he had talents that filled key needs on this roster, and Nico messed it up (even though his price tag was very affordable). I think there's been a real domino effect from that failure.

If Martin could fill that DJJ hole, it would be ideal. He's a very good defender.

He definitely has a better chance filling in the DJJ role than the Grimes role.  He brings similar offensive limitations, but I am skeptical he will be as good on defense.  I guess we will see.

[SleepingHero]

He definitely has a better chance filling in the DJJ role than the Grimes role.  He brings similar offensive limitations, but I am skeptical he will be as good on defense.  I guess we will see.

One bright side of Caleb Martin is that he rises in the playoffs. Much better shooter  for whatever reason. 

Miami loved the dude. He also for whatever reason played very well against the Celtics.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I like Grimes more in a vacuum but I totally get this trade.

Caleb Martin has been through the playoff wars and performed on the big stage.  He has played in 45 playoff games and shot 40% from three. 

Caleb Martin is signed for the next 3.5 season.  Grimes is a free agent.

Caleb Martin brings toughness that Nico seems to value.  See PJ Washington, Gaffford, Naji Marshall, Morris brother, pursuing Bobby Portis.

Martin was a key performer when the Heat knocked off Boston on their way to the Finals a few years back.  Personally, I like the deal, except for giving them their pick back.

[DanSchwartzgan]

He definitely has a better chance filling in the DJJ role than the Grimes role.  He brings similar offensive limitations, but I am skeptical he will be as good on defense.  I guess we will see.

I think Christie fills the Grimes role (also cost controlled).

[SleepingHero]

I think Christie fills the Grimes role (also cost controlled).

I don’t think Christie is nearly as talented as Grimes. 


Cost control or not, Grimes was an RFA. Mavs had all the leverage and at worst he could’ve been SnT in the summer.

[Smitty]

Spotrac is reporting this as the latter...we are $171,120 under the 1st apron.  I don't know if that is official or just them assuming.  Martin had a trade kicker and ULI which both go into the apron math.

We are at 14 players and this tight to the apron (assuming Spotrac is correct).  So, any trade likely brings back less salary now, not more.

The only thing I can see now is Naji+Powell for Coby White. The math is tight, if Martin waives the trade kicker. Then having to sign someone like Edwards to the 14-man.

[SkenfromLMF]

Cost control or not, Grimes was an RFA. Mavs had all the leverage and at worst he could’ve been SnT in the summer.

Depending on the 2nd rd pick Philly gets to use now, the worst that could happen is a team offer Grimes a contract and then (If matched) you can't trade him for an entire year.

[mvossman]

I think Christie fills the Grimes role (also cost controlled).

He is young so maybe he can get there, but he is another guy that doesn't take a lot of shots.  Grimes was shooting 40% from three on good volume while also getting 6 rebounds per 36 and 3.5 assists.  We already have a massive drop in offense with Luka gone, and this will be another hit.  You can't win a championship with defense if you can't score.

[ThisIStheYear]

Grimes is 5 years younger. Statistically, he’s better right now. He also hasn’t missed his last 13 games with an injury. The league views Martin’s contract as negative value. And, the Mavs casually threw in a pick? It’s a Nico, without Lindsey, Special. I really don’t think the Mavs are even going to make the playin. And, if they luck out and win the lottery, Nico would pass on Flagg anyways. We know he would. It’s a bizarro world.

[mvossman]

Grimes is 5 years younger. Statistically, he’s better right now. He also hasn’t missed his last 13 games with an injury. The league views his contract as negative value. And, the Mavs casually threw in a pick? It’s a Nico, without Lindsey, Special. I really don’t think the Mavs are even going to make the playin.  And, if they luck out and win the lottery, Nico would pass on Flagg anyways. We know he would. It’s a bizarro world.

If it plays out like that, I doubt Nico will still be here for the draft.

[ThisIStheYear]

The other fun fact, these two guys are both 6-5, 205. It’s really just a straight up swap. Role for role. With a crowded roster for that role. Why not use your last bit of salary flexibility to get something different for the roster?

[RoyTarpleysGhost]

Grimes is 5 years younger. Statistically, he’s better right now. He also hasn’t missed his last 13 games with an injury. The league views Martin’s contract as negative value. And, the Mavs casually threw in a pick? It’s a Nico, without Lindsey, Special. I really don’t think the Mavs are even going to make the playin.  And, if they luck out and win the lottery, Nico would pass on Flagg anyways. We know he would. It’s a bizarro world.

And Christie is 3 years younger than Grimes, who he is replacing.

The Luka trade has everyone in meltdown mode.

[F Gump]

Grimes was an RFA. Mavs had all the leverage and at worst he could’ve been SnT in the summer.

Yes Grimes will be RFA. But it's meaningless if you aren't interested in (or don't have hard cap room for) paying the salary. And Mavs did not. So RFA offered them no protection from him just walking.

[KillerLeft]

Yes Grimes will be RFA. But it's meaningless if you aren't interested in (or don't have hard cap room for) paying the salary. And Mavs did not. So RFA offered them no protection from him just walking.

Plus, they seem not to like him as a player as much as the board does. I get that we are free to disagree with their assessment, but sadly we are NOT free to force them to play him, or to re-sign him, regardless of anything related to the cap. 

I've actually been underwhelmed with his defense, relative to expectations (overwhelmed with pleasant surprise about his offense, to be fair), so this one doesn't bother me. I think I'll miss that Philly #2 more than Grimes, all told. 

I also like Martin a heap of a lot more than others here do, apparently. I don't hate this trade at all, just wish they'd have given a less valuable pick (if they even have one) or even GOTTEN a pick for the salary exchange. Just because Matin is cost controlled and represents safety to your team doesn't mean you're not doing Philly a favor by taking salary off of their books.

[audiosway]

I like Grimes more in a vacuum but I totally get this trade.

Caleb Martin has been through the playoff wars and performed on the big stage.  He has played in 45 playoff games and shot 40% from three. 

Caleb Martin is signed for the next 3.5 season.  Grimes is a free agent.

Caleb Martin brings toughness that Nico seems to value.  See PJ Washington, Gaffford, Naji Marshall, Morris brother, pursuing Bobby Portis.

Another add on to this is that Caleb Martin is hated in Boston. Every time they play Boston he goes off and they can't stop him. Martin is better now, he's tough and gritty, he's currently shooting 44% from 3. And Max Christie makes Grimes dispensable.