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hakeemfan · 10-12-2019, 09:34 PM

(10-12-2019, 08:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Kerr ABSOLUTELY did compare those and he knew what he was doing. When asked if he'd been asked about China's human rights atrocities, he deflected and said he'd neither been asked about America's atrocities and brought up AR-15s and people shooting up shopping malls.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY a comparison and he made it...don't deflect for that moron.

If you can compare 1,000,000 Uyghur people...ONE MILLION PEOPLE...in concentration camps and people put in indefinite imprisonment or just outright shot for horrible crimes like praying BY THE GOVERNMENT to some crazy shooting up a shopping mall, then you are a complete moron and you should never speak on political issues again.

I have FRIENDS who are missionaries in China who have had to flee from the area, in the last year or so, where they were working with the Uyghur people. They would talk about getting calls in the middle of the night and someone's dad was just drug out of his home in front of his kids, with his wife getting beaten by Government troops, with no charges...and that's normal.

Let me tell you too...those people would kill for the accommodations that people are up in arms about at our border.

The stories of what they are doing to the church in that country is pathetic. My wife taught ESL in China at a university for a summer and it's ridiculous. When I would call her, they'd listen in on the phone calls and open our mail. There was a list of words that I couldn't say or she'd be in trouble.

While I FULLY believe that we have a greater responsibility to speak up about our country, because we are citizens of this country. Still, to clap back with a citizen shooting up a shopping mall and hold that card up next to the atrocities that are sanctioned and completely by the Chinese government...geesh, you should have your public talking privileges revoked indefinitely.

EOS.

Asking again...if they are so bad, why has our government not cut all ties with them? Why is the US govt not speaking against all of the above atrocities? Why has the govt not come out and spoken up about what's going on in HK? Yet we want Steve Kerr to?

Mavs2019 · 10-13-2019, 04:37 AM

(10-12-2019, 09:34 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 08:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Kerr ABSOLUTELY did compare those and he knew what he was doing. When asked if he'd been asked about China's human rights atrocities, he deflected and said he'd neither been asked about America's atrocities and brought up AR-15s and people shooting up shopping malls.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY a comparison and he made it...don't deflect for that moron.

If you can compare 1,000,000 Uyghur people...ONE MILLION PEOPLE...in concentration camps and people put in indefinite imprisonment or just outright shot for horrible crimes like praying BY THE GOVERNMENT to some crazy shooting up a shopping mall, then you are a complete moron and you should never speak on political issues again.

I have FRIENDS who are missionaries in China who have had to flee from the area, in the last year or so, where they were working with the Uyghur people. They would talk about getting calls in the middle of the night and someone's dad was just drug out of his home in front of his kids, with his wife getting beaten by Government troops, with no charges...and that's normal.

Let me tell you too...those people would kill for the accommodations that people are up in arms about at our border.

The stories of what they are doing to the church in that country is pathetic. My wife taught ESL in China at a university for a summer and it's ridiculous. When I would call her, they'd listen in on the phone calls and open our mail. There was a list of words that I couldn't say or she'd be in trouble.

While I FULLY believe that we have a greater responsibility to speak up about our country, because we are citizens of this country. Still, to clap back with a citizen shooting up a shopping mall and hold that card up next to the atrocities that are sanctioned and completely by the Chinese government...geesh, you should have your public talking privileges revoked indefinitely.

EOS.

Asking again...if they are so bad, why has our government not cut all ties with them? Why is the US govt not speaking against all of the above atrocities? Why has the govt not come out and spoken up about what's going on in HK? Yet we want Steve Kerr to?

Cause on the most basic level the US government (like all western countries via their corporations) need China to produce and sell their goods. China is the largest creditor of the US public debt with around 7%. Everybody is tip-toeing, when it comes to China.

A cynic would say the US government is too busy fighting all the movements toward the standards of every self-respecting Western democracy like

affordable health care and sensible medical regulations
affordable (free) education
sensible gun laws and regulations

TXBamanut · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2019, 02:34 PM by TXBamanut.)

(10-12-2019, 09:34 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 08:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Kerr ABSOLUTELY did compare those and he knew what he was doing. When asked if he'd been asked about China's human rights atrocities, he deflected and said he'd neither been asked about America's atrocities and brought up AR-15s and people shooting up shopping malls.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY a comparison and he made it...don't deflect for that moron.

If you can compare 1,000,000 Uyghur people...ONE MILLION PEOPLE...in concentration camps and people put in indefinite imprisonment or just outright shot for horrible crimes like praying BY THE GOVERNMENT to some crazy shooting up a shopping mall, then you are a complete moron and you should never speak on political issues again.

I have FRIENDS who are missionaries in China who have had to flee from the area, in the last year or so, where they were working with the Uyghur people. They would talk about getting calls in the middle of the night and someone's dad was just drug out of his home in front of his kids, with his wife getting beaten by Government troops, with no charges...and that's normal.

Let me tell you too...those people would kill for the accommodations that people are up in arms about at our border.

The stories of what they are doing to the church in that country is pathetic. My wife taught ESL in China at a university for a summer and it's ridiculous. When I would call her, they'd listen in on the phone calls and open our mail. There was a list of words that I couldn't say or she'd be in trouble.

While I FULLY believe that we have a greater responsibility to speak up about our country, because we are citizens of this country. Still, to clap back with a citizen shooting up a shopping mall and hold that card up next to the atrocities that are sanctioned and completely by the Chinese government...geesh, you should have your public talking privileges revoked indefinitely.

EOS.

Asking again...if they are so bad, why has our government not cut all ties with them? Why is the US govt not speaking against all of the above atrocities? Why has the govt not come out and spoken up about what's going on in HK? Yet we want Steve Kerr to?

It's obvious. There's a balance from a superpower standpoint of objection, and maintaining a relationship with them in the hopes of affecting change. It's selfish for a government to cut all ties completely like that in my opinion, because you sacrifice any influence with that government, leaving those people hanging out to dry.

It's also a far cry from going "well I can't speak about that because" of an issue that isn't even in the league of or attributable to the government you routinely criticize.

A major government going scorched Earth on a horrible practice of another government is LIGHT years from a guy refusing to even SPEAK TO an issue, but instead choosing to equate American struggles with the attrocities that are real in China, because he's trying to make nice for the NBA.

Btw, we have had SEVERAL leaders speak up against the atrocities in China and other countries.

I know you guys hate Trump and are looking for a way to love Kerr in the process, but he's just flat wrong and going "wu, wu, wu if they are so bad why hasn't the government..." is trying to desperately create some false dichotomy to justify and draw attention from the bad actions of a guy you like.... And you don't even remotely deal with the actual issue.

For his next diatribe, Kerr will say something along the lines of "Hey, layoff Boko Haram because we don't even have free college tuition here."

EDIT:,. Also, like Kamm said, the government is stuck up China's butt because we owe them money... But the NBA doesn't owe them, they are simply making more money.

I think if you boycott North Carolina because they don't open up bathrooms, but China is where you want to be, you are so hypocritical that you probably can't be trusted for much. You're like a crack addict, but with money.

On a side note, it boggles my mind that while I'm telling you of friends that I have and experiences that I and my wife have had with China, and you are going well "if"...I know you don't know me from Adam's housecat, but good grief, you must love you some Kerr really hard.

hakeemfan · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2019, 04:45 PM by hakeemfan.)

(10-13-2019, 02:15 PM)TXBamanut Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 09:34 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 08:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Kerr ABSOLUTELY did compare those and he knew what he was doing. When asked if he'd been asked about China's human rights atrocities, he deflected and said he'd neither been asked about America's atrocities and brought up AR-15s and people shooting up shopping malls.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY a comparison and he made it...don't deflect for that moron.

If you can compare 1,000,000 Uyghur people...ONE MILLION PEOPLE...in concentration camps and people put in indefinite imprisonment or just outright shot for horrible crimes like praying BY THE GOVERNMENT to some crazy shooting up a shopping mall, then you are a complete moron and you should never speak on political issues again.

I have FRIENDS who are missionaries in China who have had to flee from the area, in the last year or so, where they were working with the Uyghur people. They would talk about getting calls in the middle of the night and someone's dad was just drug out of his home in front of his kids, with his wife getting beaten by Government troops, with no charges...and that's normal.

Let me tell you too...those people would kill for the accommodations that people are up in arms about at our border.

The stories of what they are doing to the church in that country is pathetic. My wife taught ESL in China at a university for a summer and it's ridiculous. When I would call her, they'd listen in on the phone calls and open our mail. There was a list of words that I couldn't say or she'd be in trouble.

While I FULLY believe that we have a greater responsibility to speak up about our country, because we are citizens of this country. Still, to clap back with a citizen shooting up a shopping mall and hold that card up next to the atrocities that are sanctioned and completely by the Chinese government...geesh, you should have your public talking privileges revoked indefinitely.

EOS.

Asking again...if they are so bad, why has our government not cut all ties with them? Why is the US govt not speaking against all of the above atrocities? Why has the govt not come out and spoken up about what's going on in HK? Yet we want Steve Kerr to?

It's obvious. There's a balance from a superpower standpoint of objection, and maintaining a relationship with them in the hopes of affecting change. It's selfish for a government to cut all ties completely like that in my opinion, because you sacrifice any influence with that government, leaving those people hanging out to dry.

It's also a far cry from going "well I can't speak about that because" of an issue that isn't even in the league of or attributable to the government you routinely criticize.

A major government going scorched Earth on a horrible practice of another government is LIGHT years from a guy refusing to even SPEAK TO an issue, but instead choosing to equate American struggles with the attrocities that are real in China, because he's trying to make nice for the NBA.

Btw, we have had SEVERAL leaders speak up against the atrocities in China and other countries.

I know you guys hate Trump and are looking for a way to love Kerr in the process, but he's just flat wrong and going "wu, wu, wu if they are so bad why hasn't the government..." is trying to desperately create some false dichotomy to justify and draw attention from the bad actions of a guy you like.... And you don't even remotely deal with the actual issue.

For his next diatribe, Kerr will say something along the lines of "Hey, layoff Boko Haram because we don't even have free college tuition here."

EDIT:,. Also, like Kamm said, the government is stuck up China's butt because we owe them money... But the NBA doesn't owe them, they are simply making more money.

I think if you boycott North Carolina because they don't open up bathrooms, but China is where you want to be, you are so hypocritical that you probably can't be trusted for much. You're like a crack addict, but with money.

On a side note, it boggles my mind that while I'm telling you of friends that I have and experiences that I and my wife have had with China, and you are going well "if"...I know you don't know me from Adam's housecat, but good grief, you must love you some Kerr really hard.

Huh..The US government hasn't spoken up either, if just 'speaking up' is not a big deal.

No one is doubting your friends' experience. If the point that on international matters, while a private organization can certainly speak out, it's more on the US government first and foremost to have an opinion or take action, goes right over your head and you look at that as love for Steve Kerr, then you must love some illogical conclusions really hard.

**fifteenth** · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2019, 08:41 PM by fifteenth.)

(10-13-2019, 02:15 PM)TXBamanut Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 09:34 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 08:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Kerr ABSOLUTELY did compare those and he knew what he was doing. When asked if he'd been asked about China's human rights atrocities, he deflected and said he'd neither been asked about America's atrocities and brought up AR-15s and people shooting up shopping malls.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY a comparison and he made it...don't deflect for that moron.

If you can compare 1,000,000 Uyghur people...ONE MILLION PEOPLE...in concentration camps and people put in indefinite imprisonment or just outright shot for horrible crimes like praying BY THE GOVERNMENT to some crazy shooting up a shopping mall, then you are a complete moron and you should never speak on political issues again.

I have FRIENDS who are missionaries in China who have had to flee from the area, in the last year or so, where they were working with the Uyghur people. They would talk about getting calls in the middle of the night and someone's dad was just drug out of his home in front of his kids, with his wife getting beaten by Government troops, with no charges...and that's normal.

Let me tell you too...those people would kill for the accommodations that people are up in arms about at our border.

The stories of what they are doing to the church in that country is pathetic. My wife taught ESL in China at a university for a summer and it's ridiculous. When I would call her, they'd listen in on the phone calls and open our mail. There was a list of words that I couldn't say or she'd be in trouble.

While I FULLY believe that we have a greater responsibility to speak up about our country, because we are citizens of this country. Still, to clap back with a citizen shooting up a shopping mall and hold that card up next to the atrocities that are sanctioned and completely by the Chinese government...geesh, you should have your public talking privileges revoked indefinitely.

EOS.

Asking again...if they are so bad, why has our government not cut all ties with them? Why is the US govt not speaking against all of the above atrocities? Why has the govt not come out and spoken up about what's going on in HK? Yet we want Steve Kerr to?

It's obvious. There's a balance from a superpower standpoint of objection, and maintaining a relationship with them in the hopes of affecting change. It's selfish for a government to cut all ties completely like that in my opinion, because you sacrifice any influence with that government, leaving those people hanging out to dry.

It's also a far cry from going "well I can't speak about that because" of an issue that isn't even in the league of or attributable to the government you routinely criticize.

A major government going scorched Earth on a horrible practice of another government is LIGHT years from a guy refusing to even SPEAK TO an issue, but instead choosing to equate American struggles with the attrocities that are real in China, because he's trying to make nice for the NBA.

Btw, we have had SEVERAL leaders speak up against the atrocities in China and other countries.

I know you guys hate Trump and are looking for a way to love Kerr in the process, but he's just flat wrong and going "wu, wu, wu if they are so bad why hasn't the government..." is trying to desperately create some false dichotomy to justify and draw attention from the bad actions of a guy you like.... And you don't even remotely deal with the actual issue.

For his next diatribe, Kerr will say something along the lines of "Hey, layoff Boko Haram because we don't even have free college tuition here."

EDIT:,. Also, like Kamm said, the government is stuck up China's butt because we owe them money... But the NBA doesn't owe them, they are simply making more money.

I think if you boycott North Carolina because they don't open up bathrooms, but China is where you want to be, you are so hypocritical that you probably can't be trusted for much. You're like a crack addict, but with money.

On a side note, it boggles my mind that while I'm telling you of friends that I have and experiences that I and my wife have had with China, and you are going well "if"...I know you don't know me from Adam's housecat, but good grief, you must love you some Kerr really hard.

Who here is taking up for China? No one! I also have friends who have been missionaries in China, and currently support a missionary in China. What does that have to do with this discussion? Nothing!

You're spewing nonsense; a series of non sequiturs.

Asking an NBA coach or teen aged tennis player about international politics or human rights issues and then killing them for a "no comment" is stupid. Claiming that the opinion I just typed has anything to do with hate for Trump is ridiculous. I don't live my life through a pro or anti Trump lens.

Kerr didn't compare Hong Kong protests to US gun violence. He basically said that he'd stick to domestic issues. My opinion about what he meant has nothing to do with Kerr love since I don't have some special place in my heart for Kerr.

ThunderMav · 10-13-2019, 11:03 PM

Fair question

https://twitter.com/HerschelWalker/statu...2822135808

TXBamanut · 10-13-2019, 11:07 PM

(10-13-2019, 04:41 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:
(10-13-2019, 02:15 PM)TXBamanut Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 09:34 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 08:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Kerr ABSOLUTELY did compare those and he knew what he was doing. When asked if he'd been asked about China's human rights atrocities, he deflected and said he'd neither been asked about America's atrocities and brought up AR-15s and people shooting up shopping malls.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY a comparison and he made it...don't deflect for that moron.

If you can compare 1,000,000 Uyghur people...ONE MILLION PEOPLE...in concentration camps and people put in indefinite imprisonment or just outright shot for horrible crimes like praying BY THE GOVERNMENT to some crazy shooting up a shopping mall, then you are a complete moron and you should never speak on political issues again.

I have FRIENDS who are missionaries in China who have had to flee from the area, in the last year or so, where they were working with the Uyghur people. They would talk about getting calls in the middle of the night and someone's dad was just drug out of his home in front of his kids, with his wife getting beaten by Government troops, with no charges...and that's normal.

Let me tell you too...those people would kill for the accommodations that people are up in arms about at our border.

The stories of what they are doing to the church in that country is pathetic. My wife taught ESL in China at a university for a summer and it's ridiculous. When I would call her, they'd listen in on the phone calls and open our mail. There was a list of words that I couldn't say or she'd be in trouble.

While I FULLY believe that we have a greater responsibility to speak up about our country, because we are citizens of this country. Still, to clap back with a citizen shooting up a shopping mall and hold that card up next to the atrocities that are sanctioned and completely by the Chinese government...geesh, you should have your public talking privileges revoked indefinitely.

EOS.

Asking again...if they are so bad, why has our government not cut all ties with them? Why is the US govt not speaking against all of the above atrocities? Why has the govt not come out and spoken up about what's going on in HK? Yet we want Steve Kerr to?

It's obvious. There's a balance from a superpower standpoint of objection, and maintaining a relationship with them in the hopes of affecting change. It's selfish for a government to cut all ties completely like that in my opinion, because you sacrifice any influence with that government, leaving those people hanging out to dry.

It's also a far cry from going "well I can't speak about that because" of an issue that isn't even in the league of or attributable to the government you routinely criticize.

A major government going scorched Earth on a horrible practice of another government is LIGHT years from a guy refusing to even SPEAK TO an issue, but instead choosing to equate American struggles with the attrocities that are real in China, because he's trying to make nice for the NBA.

Btw, we have had SEVERAL leaders speak up against the atrocities in China and other countries.

I know you guys hate Trump and are looking for a way to love Kerr in the process, but he's just flat wrong and going "wu, wu, wu if they are so bad why hasn't the government..." is trying to desperately create some false dichotomy to justify and draw attention from the bad actions of a guy you like.... And you don't even remotely deal with the actual issue.

For his next diatribe, Kerr will say something along the lines of "Hey, layoff Boko Haram because we don't even have free college tuition here."

EDIT:,. Also, like Kamm said, the government is stuck up China's butt because we owe them money... But the NBA doesn't owe them, they are simply making more money.

I think if you boycott North Carolina because they don't open up bathrooms, but China is where you want to be, you are so hypocritical that you probably can't be trusted for much. You're like a crack addict, but with money.

On a side note, it boggles my mind that while I'm telling you of friends that I have and experiences that I and my wife have had with China, and you are going well "if"...I know you don't know me from Adam's housecat, but good grief, you must love you some Kerr really hard.

Huh..The US government hasn't spoken up either, if just 'speaking up' is not a big deal.

No one is doubting your friends' experience. If the point that on international matters, while a private organization can certainly speak out, it's more on the US government first and foremost to have an opinion or take action, goes right over your head and you look at that as love for Steve Kerr, then you must love some illogical conclusions really hard.

You are doubting my friend's experience....you said "If they are really that bad"..."if" is by nature a doubting mechanism of speech from the get go. Secondly, if you don't see how pointing out a fault in one organization doesn't absolve another one, then that situational ethics problem is on you, but your false dichotomies that you create, just because of your preference toward or against the people involved is the problem on your end.

I guarantee you if Kerr had spoken up, instead of lamely deflecting onto something that isn't even in the same stratosphere as the atrocities in China, I would be cheer his name and never said a word otherwise...no matter if I agree with his politics or not....but that's me. I call it like it is.

ThunderMav · 10-13-2019, 11:13 PM

Big differences. China is a State run terror organization locking people up just like Hitler did. US Gov is not shooting at malls. Kerr is a coward for comparing the two.

If Kerr had just come out and said I won’t comment since they butter my bread at least most people would understand and respect that answer. But he hates Trump so much he would never take his side or that of America. He sold his soul to the dollar. So what about players sticking up something and speaking out? They are hypocrites who are only after the dollar, and will sell out our country for it. Kerr is a two faced coward.

https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/11...1492753411

TXBamanut · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2019, 11:40 PM by TXBamanut.)

(10-13-2019, 07:14 PM)fifteenth Wrote:
(10-13-2019, 02:15 PM)TXBamanut Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 09:34 PM)hakeemfan Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 08:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Kerr ABSOLUTELY did compare those and he knew what he was doing. When asked if he'd been asked about China's human rights atrocities, he deflected and said he'd neither been asked about America's atrocities and brought up AR-15s and people shooting up shopping malls.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY a comparison and he made it...don't deflect for that moron.

If you can compare 1,000,000 Uyghur people...ONE MILLION PEOPLE...in concentration camps and people put in indefinite imprisonment or just outright shot for horrible crimes like praying BY THE GOVERNMENT to some crazy shooting up a shopping mall, then you are a complete moron and you should never speak on political issues again.

I have FRIENDS who are missionaries in China who have had to flee from the area, in the last year or so, where they were working with the Uyghur people. They would talk about getting calls in the middle of the night and someone's dad was just drug out of his home in front of his kids, with his wife getting beaten by Government troops, with no charges...and that's normal.

Let me tell you too...those people would kill for the accommodations that people are up in arms about at our border.

The stories of what they are doing to the church in that country is pathetic. My wife taught ESL in China at a university for a summer and it's ridiculous. When I would call her, they'd listen in on the phone calls and open our mail. There was a list of words that I couldn't say or she'd be in trouble.

While I FULLY believe that we have a greater responsibility to speak up about our country, because we are citizens of this country. Still, to clap back with a citizen shooting up a shopping mall and hold that card up next to the atrocities that are sanctioned and completely by the Chinese government...geesh, you should have your public talking privileges revoked indefinitely.

EOS.

Asking again...if they are so bad, why has our government not cut all ties with them? Why is the US govt not speaking against all of the above atrocities? Why has the govt not come out and spoken up about what's going on in HK? Yet we want Steve Kerr to?

It's obvious. There's a balance from a superpower standpoint of objection, and maintaining a relationship with them in the hopes of affecting change. It's selfish for a government to cut all ties completely like that in my opinion, because you sacrifice any influence with that government, leaving those people hanging out to dry.

It's also a far cry from going "well I can't speak about that because" of an issue that isn't even in the league of or attributable to the government you routinely criticize.

A major government going scorched Earth on a horrible practice of another government is LIGHT years from a guy refusing to even SPEAK TO an issue, but instead choosing to equate American struggles with the attrocities that are real in China, because he's trying to make nice for the NBA.

Btw, we have had SEVERAL leaders speak up against the atrocities in China and other countries.

I know you guys hate Trump and are looking for a way to love Kerr in the process, but he's just flat wrong and going "wu, wu, wu if they are so bad why hasn't the government..." is trying to desperately create some false dichotomy to justify and draw attention from the bad actions of a guy you like.... And you don't even remotely deal with the actual issue.

For his next diatribe, Kerr will say something along the lines of "Hey, layoff Boko Haram because we don't even have free college tuition here."

EDIT:,. Also, like Kamm said, the government is stuck up China's butt because we owe them money... But the NBA doesn't owe them, they are simply making more money.

I think if you boycott North Carolina because they don't open up bathrooms, but China is where you want to be, you are so hypocritical that you probably can't be trusted for much. You're like a crack addict, but with money.

On a side note, it boggles my mind that while I'm telling you of friends that I have and experiences that I and my wife have had with China, and you are going well "if"...I know you don't know me from Adam's housecat, but good grief, you must love you some Kerr really hard.

Who here is taking up for China? No one! I also have friends who have been missionaries in China, and currently support a missionary in China. What does that have to do with this discussion? Nothing!

You're spewing nonsense; a series of non sequiturs.

Asking an NBA coach or teen aged tennis player about international politics or human rights issues and then killing them for a "no comment" is stupid. Claiming that the opinion I just typed has anything to do with hate for Trump is ridiculous. I don't live my life through a pro or anti Trump lens.

Kerr didn't compare Hong Kong protests to US gun violence. He basically said that he'd stick to domestic issues. My opinion about what he meant has nothing to do with Kerr love since I don't have some special place in my heart for Kerr.

"Who's taking up for China?????" Did you read this thread or even this page? The dude above that started out his rant with "if they are really that bad..." Duh. That's defending them as not really being that bad or it's a poor choice of words to present as otherwise.

I"m not spewing non sequiturs, that's exactly what I was pointing out that someone else was doing by trying to justify Kerr's lame response by pointing back to the government, and swing his politics around his head like a wet sock full of potatoes.

Look...we aren't talking about a teenaged tennis player or just random video game player who normally only talks about his favorite flavor of Gatorade in interviews. We're talking about a coach who uses his platform regularly to espouse his political views, UNPROMPTED, allegedly because he is so appalled from a social justice angle, but now runs from a political question on a matter of social justice.

Look, no one is asking Nick Saban about China and why? Because he's not tripping over himself to wax poetic on stuff outside of his lane (in some people's opinion) like Kerr does...he opened the door, now he's just upset that he can't shut it without people noticing. To me, what Kerr is doing is the verbal equivalent of being outraged that someone keyed someone else's car, but going silent and looking the other way as someone gets mugged and beaten....come on.

But in the end, it's his choice to speak or not, just like it's my choice to call "bullcrap" on his social justice sensitivities as "first world" only....maybe it's his boss, maybe he's concerned about the safety of players on teams over there, whatever...but to try to deflect commenting on horrendous acts and COMPARING it to a mass shooting in a mall is ignorant. They are both tragedies, but one is a government sanctioned thing, which is far worse. In America, you get the death penalty or life imprisonment, when the government catches you and puts you away, while the other is something a government does with no check or balance.

Personally, I think the NBA, for the political assertions that they've run out there, is beyond hypocritical to be buddying up to China and kissing their tail (Good for Morey for not doing that, btw --- bravo!!! --- well origicnally) while boycotting US states (North Carolina and now possibly Georgia for their pro-life stance). Honestly, no matter what side of the fence you fall on with those things ideologically, you can't honestly tell me that you think killing and imprisoning people without provocation, forced population control, etc... isn't a little higher up on the list than bathroom policy?????? Good grief, man. How can you social justice for what piece of preferred porcelain that someone uses, which you ignore the blood in someone else's white bus because no one else has cleaned the brains up that got flung on it from the government issued bullet that went through their skull, execution style kneeling on the floor?

Yes he DID compare them...he basically said is a whitewashed re-interpretation of the point he was making when he chose that example to latch onto it. Kerr goes "I'm just not going to comment on that" and I'm not saying a word...why? Because he's not making a compensatory statement by what he chose to run out there as an equivalent option on the scale he was measuring people's questions on. Now he can't retract it without getting China all mad...so that's that.

You don't believe that, fine and it's awesome that you support missionaries in China as well, and that's wonderful but I don't agree with you at all on your opinion about Kerr.

**fifteenth** · (This post was last modified: 10-14-2019, 10:31 AM by fifteenth.)

(10-13-2019, 11:37 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: "Who's taking up for China?????" Did you read this thread or even this page? The dude above that started out his rant with "if they are really that bad..." Duh. That's defending them as not really being that bad or it's a poor choice of words to present as otherwise.

hakeemfan can take care of himself, but I'll chime in...he didn't take up for China! His response to this thread's demand that an NBA coach speak out against China was to point out that our government (who should be more well versed in foreign policy than an NBA coach) has not made the statements about China that you guys are demanding of an NBA coach.

You guys want Kerr to make statements about China because you don't like his politics, and so you gleefully see a chance to nail him. I don't care about his politics, or yours for that matter, and I just don't get the need to demand foreign policy statements from NBA coaches. I don't need Kerr's thoughts about China. I don't care. And I submit that you guys don't actually care about what Kerr, or Morey, think about Hong Kong protests either! You're only involved in this because you see a chance to pounce on someone who thinks differently than you do, not about China, but about US vs THEM American politics. I don't necessarily think like Kerr, but I see no reason to cherry pick his statements so that I can run wild eyed to pounce on him. What a strange way to interact with the world. It's one of the things that make the internet so ridiculous.

Kerr's involvement in domestic politics is his business. Your "stay in your lane" statement is anti-democracy. What do you do for a living? Are you swerving outside your lane by voicing political opinions? If you had a microphone stuck in your face by reporters would you consider it your duty to "stay in your lane" and refrain from comment about domestic issues?

Your last statement was that you didn't agree with my stance on Kerr. That's fine, I like you, I don't demand that you think like I do and I could just end this there, but you said a lot of other stuff too and I guess I'm not done :-). The deal is, there is no way you can bend the English language in a way that shows Kerr comparing domestic and foreign issues. You can't use Kerr's words to show that he's doing what you claim. The clearest reading of what Kerr said, based on his own words is that when asked about foreign affairs he basically said "I'm sticking to domestic affairs".

luka_skywalker_77 · (This post was last modified: 10-14-2019, 11:00 AM by luka_skywalker_77.)

(10-12-2019, 08:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: Kerr ABSOLUTELY did compare those and he knew what he was doing. When asked if he'd been asked about China's human rights atrocities, he deflected and said he'd neither been asked about America's atrocities and brought up AR-15s and people shooting up shopping malls.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY a comparison and he made it...don't deflect for that moron.

If you can compare 1,000,000 Uyghur people...ONE MILLION PEOPLE...in concentration camps and people put in indefinite imprisonment or just outright shot for horrible crimes like praying BY THE GOVERNMENT to some crazy shooting up a shopping mall, then you are a complete moron and you should never speak on political issues again.

I have FRIENDS who are missionaries in China who have had to flee from the area, in the last year or so, where they were working with the Uyghur people. They would talk about getting calls in the middle of the night and someone's dad was just drug out of his home in front of his kids, with his wife getting beaten by Government troops, with no charges...and that's normal.

Let me tell you too...those people would kill for the accommodations that people are up in arms about at our border.

The stories of what they are doing to the church in that country is pathetic. My wife taught ESL in China at a university for a summer and it's ridiculous. When I would call her, they'd listen in on the phone calls and open our mail. There was a list of words that I couldn't say or she'd be in trouble.

While I FULLY believe that we have a greater responsibility to speak up about our country, because we are citizens of this country. Still, to clap back with a citizen shooting up a shopping mall and hold that card up next to the atrocities that are sanctioned and completely by the Chinese government...geesh, you should have your public talking privileges revoked indefinitely.

EOS.

Perfectly encapsulated. Nothing more needs to be said about it.

What makes what Kerr said so self-serving, is that he's attempting to draw an equivalence between the US and China, using guns and slavery--and in both cases he probably has no idea what he's talking about having heard him speak on this several times. He's protecting is money pooch because China is a massive part of the NBA and it's products, NIKE, the Bay Area etc., which is why he's claiming ignorance in the face of questioning. He's not commenting because he KNOWS the repercussions. He can say whatever he wants about us, but he HAS to hold his tongue when it comes to China which is why all of these guys are running the same lines ...

He's had NO issues making poignant statements about the US in many regards, so it's only fair that those same reporters question him about any of this.

Fact is, he's wrong for drawing an equivalence between the US and China and it's stupid to argue that legitimately. Two, he's protecting his own ass, team and league by playing ignorance. Three, it's his right to do any of the aforementioned, just as it's my right to call him a lying, condescending sack of sht which is emblematic of those harboring left of the political spectrum. He's just another in the like of 'woke' people feigning intelligence, claiming to fight for the people while denigrating not only themselves but their country of citizenship as well. It's practically par for the course so it's not surprising.

The other thing, is that the US has spoken up many times about what's going on in China, however, governments must maintain some level of decorum with other nations they do not morally see eye to eye with. You can play isolationist and remove yourself from the global network of allies, or you can maintain relationships while attempting to promote influence and change in those same areas.

**if you think the US hasn't said a LOT about that's going on in China, please type: www.google.com into your browser window and do some research on it.

**fifteenth** · (This post was last modified: 10-14-2019, 11:55 AM by fifteenth.)

(10-14-2019, 10:42 AM)luka_skywalker_77 Wrote: What makes what Kerr said so self-serving, is that he's attempting to draw an equivalence between the US and China, using guns and slavery--and in both cases he probably has no idea what he's talking about having heard him speak on this several times. He's protecting is money pooch because China is a massive part of the NBA and it's products, NIKE, the Bay Area etc., which is why he's claiming ignorance in the face of questioning. He's not commenting because he KNOWS the repercussions. He can say whatever he wants about us, but he HAS to hold his tongue when it comes to China which is why all of these guys are running the same lines ...

He's had NO issues making poignant statements about the US in many regards, so it's only fair that those same reporters question him about any of this.

Fact is, he's wrong for drawing an equivalence between the US and China and it's stupid to argue that legitimately. Two, he's protecting his own ass, team and league by playing ignorance. Three, it's his right to do any of the aforementioned, just as it's my right to call him a lying, condescending sack of sht which is emblematic of those harboring left of the political spectrum. He's just another in the like of 'woke' people feigning intelligence, claiming to fight for the people while denigrating not only themselves but their country of citizenship as well. It's practically par for the course so it's not surprising.

The other thing, is that the US has spoken up many times about what's going on in China, however, governments must maintain some level of decorum with other nations they do not morally see eye to eye with. You can play isolationist and remove yourself from the global network of allies, or you can maintain relationships while attempting to promote influence and change in those same areas.

**if you think the US hasn't said a LOT about that's going on in China, please type: into your browser window and do some research on it.

When you run everything through the lens of "Us vs Them U.S. politics" then this ^ is what you get.

No doubt Kerr's involvement in the NBA and the NBA's relationship to China has something to do with his "No Comment". Glad you made this point so that I could agree with something in this thread.

But you still can't show, with Kerr's words, how he compared China's battle with Hong Kong protesters with U.S. domestic issues. Please try. Proximity of subjects (reporter asks about Hong Kong, Kerr talks U.S. issues) doesn't equal comparison. He made no comparison. As I've already said, his own words say something like "you ask me about another country, I'll just stick to talking about my own." That's not a comparison, it's a deflection or redirection.

Also, hakeemfan didn't say that the U.S. has never commented about China. That would be silly. Based on the context of his statements I think he said he hadn't seen them say anything backing the Hong Kong protesters. Maybe google has shown you differently. I've shared links to some of my own meager research in this thread. Feel free to share your own, if you like, rather than offering the lame rebuttal of "GOOGLE IT".

Fact is, while I agree with your opinion that Kerr's job with the NBA probably influenced his "no comment" (though I'm not sure why that's so grievous), I have to say you haven't presented much in the way of "facts" in your post. It's mostly just another Us vs Them diatribe.

hakeemfan · (This post was last modified: 10-14-2019, 10:45 PM by hakeemfan.)

Thanks fif.

I owe Bama and some others on this thread an apology. Not because I agree with everything that they've said, but the actions today from the NBA players have shown their total hypocrisy.

I was fine with the players paying more attention to domestic issues while not necessarily having a comment on international issues, since the US govt itself hasn't said much about these things, and politics has always been about hypocrisy and self interest.

However, today I first read of how the players were upset at Silver for not taking stronger sanctions against Morey. Then Bron comes out with a message that was sheer nonsense.

I didn't understand what Morey's end game with the tweet was, especially if he didn't have the spine to stand by it. However, how on earth do the players ask for sanctions against him? Did the NBA sanction the players for protesting what they believed was wrong? If anything, they should have been supportive of Morey's right to express his thoughts. Then Bron today with his rubbish about how Morey was misinformed.

The bottom line is the players today by their actions and words are showing that it's all about the sneakers market for them with China. It has nothing to do with not knowing what's going on there or staying silent on international matters because politics is a filthy swamp anyway. Today they showed that they too can become the oppressor who tries to talk down someone else if money is at stake, and money is all that really matters.

ThunderMav · (This post was last modified: 10-14-2019, 11:01 PM by ThunderMav.)

LBJ is so out of touch with reality:

https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1183931110750904321

Amazing he even sent it was he paid off by China? Where is the voice of Hong Kong and all the folks locked up in concentration camps and all the illegal organ harvesting going on in China? Why won’t players speak for them? It makes me sick how fast they sold out to the dollar. Wow

https://twitter.com/ClayTravis/status/11...5639362563

Lebron has it so hard what a joke he is:

https://twitter.com/ThunderND/status/118...1451304960

https://twitter.com/OKCTHUNDERAlex/statu...2459102216

Remember this statement from LBJ? But he sold out his soul.

I may give up on NBA this is just sickening what is happening and how the players and league sold out to commy China. Flat out sickening

https://twitter.com/OKCTHUNDERAlex/statu...2885182470

**Kammrath** · (This post was last modified: 10-14-2019, 11:15 PM by Kammrath.)

Which brings us full circle.......

[Image: giphy.gif]

https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/...2576933889

**fifteenth** · (This post was last modified: 10-15-2019, 10:46 AM by fifteenth.)

The thing I've been against so far in this thread is the framing of NBA vs China in light of U.S. Internet Politics and our culture war. And I still don't think that's the way to make sense of this stuff.

I think Kam has had this pegged from the beginning. It looks like the players are upset because Morey cost them some money.

I don't know, maybe my stance (which I'm still trying to sort out) is too complicated, but here it is: The NBA's silence about Hong Kong protesters didn't bother me, even though I knew it was because they were trying to save their business interest in China, because I don't really expect them to have comments about China, Sudan, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, etc. I just don't expect that from the NBA...

BUT! I would stand up (or kneel) for any human's right to denounce wrongs and speak freely about their thoughts on things that need to change.

The players asking Silver to put punish Morey crosses a line. I appreciate Silver's previous statement that validated Morey's right to voice support for Hong Kong protesters. I'm sure Silver would like to do business in China, but he, at least, couldn't let his greed motivate him to denounce Morey. The players are allowing their greed to turn them in to hypocrites.

So at this point I can see Bama's and others' point. To the players: Don't just stand for human rights when it costs you very little, but then rush to judge someone standing for human rights because it cost you dollars.

Now I gotta make sure I'm living this out. Am I willing to do things for others at a cost to myself?

hakeemfan · (This post was last modified: 10-15-2019, 12:00 PM by hakeemfan.)

fif..Your post echoes my own sentiments from my previous post.

Let's be honest. All of us knew from the beginning that there was some level of hypocrisy involved with not wanting to upset the wealth they make off the shoe market. Part of that hypocrisy is not just about increasing their wealth to the last possible dollar, but the freedom which that sneaker deal gives them. It's those shoe deals that have allowed the players to gain the upper hand over the owners in that the players know they have a significant if not even more money coming via those deals. So I can perfectly understand their dilemma.

However, where they lose me is when they ask Silver as to what sanctions can be levied against Morey or when Bron says Morey was uneducated. As minorities they have to know more than anyone else how much freedom of expression means. Also, their league supported them in that. Yet they want to throw Morey to the wolves? That is disgraceful behavior.

All of us are hypocrites to a certain extent. However, in this case, Morey was just asking supporting freedom and most players in the NBA are minorities, who also have got a lot of publicity for speaking out about equal rights and justice. Even if they felt they couldn't openly support him to protect their $ interests, they should be the last ones throwing him under the bus and asking for his head. I know that much about myself. I might be a hypocrite but I wouldn't stoop so low.

**fifteenth** · 10-15-2019, 12:23 PM

(10-15-2019, 11:59 AM)hakeemfan Wrote: fif..Your post echoes my own sentiments from my previous post.

Let's be honest. All of us knew from the beginning that there was some level of hypocrisy involved with not wanting to upset the wealth they make off the shoe market. Part of that hypocrisy is not just about increasing their wealth to the last possible dollar, but the freedom which that sneaker deal gives them. It's those shoe deals that have allowed the players to gain the upper hand over the owners in that the players know they have a significant if not even more money coming via those deals. So I can perfectly understand their dilemma.

However, where they lose me is when they ask Silver as to what sanctions can be levied against Morey or when Bron says Morey was uneducated. As minorities they have to know more than anyone else how much freedom of expression means. Also, their league supported them in that. Yet they want to throw Morey to the wolves? That is disgraceful behavior.

All of us are hypocrites to a certain extent. However, in this case, Morey was just asking supporting freedom and most players in the NBA are minorities, who also have got a lot of publicity for speaking out about equal rights and justice. Even if they felt they couldn't openly support him to protect their $ interests, they should be the last ones throwing him under the bus and asking for his head. I know that much about myself. I might be a hypocrite but I wouldn't stoop so low.

Actually, I think my last post echoes this post that you just made! I wasn't going to take the players to task for staying quiet about China, even though I knew their reasons were business related, because I don't need to hear what they think about China. I don't expect them to be educated about China. I'm not going to require that of them.

BUT...when they asked Silver to punish Morey they crossed a line, acted very hypocritically, and elevated their business interests above Morey's right as a human to support Hong Kong protesters.

luka_skywalker_77 · (This post was last modified: 10-15-2019, 01:01 PM by luka_skywalker_77.)

(10-14-2019, 11:50 AM)fifteenth Wrote:
(10-14-2019, 10:42 AM)luka_skywalker_77 Wrote: What makes what Kerr said so self-serving, is that he's attempting to draw an equivalence between the US and China, using guns and slavery--and in both cases he probably has no idea what he's talking about having heard him speak on this several times. He's protecting is money pooch because China is a massive part of the NBA and it's products, NIKE, the Bay Area etc., which is why he's claiming ignorance in the face of questioning. He's not commenting because he KNOWS the repercussions. He can say whatever he wants about us, but he HAS to hold his tongue when it comes to China which is why all of these guys are running the same lines ...

He's had NO issues making poignant statements about the US in many regards, so it's only fair that those same reporters question him about any of this.

Fact is, he's wrong for drawing an equivalence between the US and China and it's stupid to argue that legitimately. Two, he's protecting his own ass, team and league by playing ignorance. Three, it's his right to do any of the aforementioned, just as it's my right to call him a lying, condescending sack of sht which is emblematic of those harboring left of the political spectrum. He's just another in the like of 'woke' people feigning intelligence, claiming to fight for the people while denigrating not only themselves but their country of citizenship as well. It's practically par for the course so it's not surprising.

The other thing, is that the US has spoken up many times about what's going on in China, however, governments must maintain some level of decorum with other nations they do not morally see eye to eye with. You can play isolationist and remove yourself from the global network of allies, or you can maintain relationships while attempting to promote influence and change in those same areas.

**if you think the US hasn't said a LOT about that's going on in China, please type: into your browser window and do some research on it.

When you run everything through the lens of "Us vs Them U.S. politics" then this ^ is what you get.

No doubt Kerr's involvement in the NBA and the NBA's relationship to China has something to do with his "No Comment". Glad you made this point so that I could agree with something in this thread.

But you still can't show, with Kerr's words, how he compared China's battle with Hong Kong protesters with U.S. domestic issues. Please try. Proximity of subjects (reporter asks about Hong Kong, Kerr talks U.S. issues) doesn't equal comparison. He made no comparison. As I've already said, his own words say something like "you ask me about another country, I'll just stick to talking about my own." That's not a comparison, it's a deflection or redirection.

Also, hakeemfan didn't say that the U.S. has never commented about China. That would be silly. Based on the context of his statements I think he said he hadn't seen them say anything backing the Hong Kong protesters. Maybe google has shown you differently. I've shared links to some of my own meager research in this thread. Feel free to share your own, if you like, rather than offering the lame rebuttal of "GOOGLE IT".

Fact is, while I agree with your opinion that Kerr's job with the NBA probably influenced his "no comment" (though I'm not sure why that's so grievous), I have to say you haven't presented much in the way of "facts" in your post. It's mostly just another Us vs Them diatribe.

Perhaps i was a bit on the lazy side when i initially responded, so i'll provide more context as this issue progresses.

As he stated:
[...] “Nor has our record of human rights abuses come up, either,” Kerr continued as he took a hostile tone toward the United States. “Things that our country needs to look at and resolve. That hasn’t come up either. None of us are perfect. We all have different issues we have to get to. … But people in China didn’t ask me about, you know, people owning AR-15s and mowing each other down in a mall. I wasn’t asked that question.”

“We can play this game all we want and go all over the map. There’s this issue and that issue. The world is a complex place and there’s more gray than black and white,” Kerr concluded. “I realize that what’s popular these days is making it black and white. You’re either good or you’re evil. It’s convenient to do things that way, but not realistic.” [...]

The above which echoes the sentiments of many basketball players when asked about this issue, which runs in line with how fans are kicked/escorted out of stadiums for bringing signage with them to the games. You can mark the latter off as being against stadium policy, but we know better. Now if someone DID ask him about the US, i'm more than positive he would have had some choice words to provide--without hesitation and he has done so on many occasions, despite being uneducated in those topics as well. But now we have a situation that is clearly black and white, and he has no comment? Please explain to me what he needs to educate himself on? And explain to me why EVERY OTHER player and team, echoes the same sentiment. It's almost as if they went to the same meetings ...

Aside from that, american citizens, pundits from liberal and conservative outlets have all condemned his actions--and roundly so. This is not so much a left or right issue, but a matter of hypocrisy, especially when your livelihood is on the line and now LBJ is repeating the same responses--the same guy that has a response to EVERYTHING--now has no response to a very simple issue. He made a US matter very black and white and so have many players--because it's socially and politically expedient to do so and there's very little repercussion financially. They care about Chinese money, not the people.

In terms of China:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/thousands-rally-in-hong-kong-for-u-s-bill-supporting-citys-special-status-11571074463
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomac...sure-white

I think we agree on most of it, but where it pisses off my sports me, is this irritating, mind numbing hypocrisy--as if we don't exactly why they are doing this. It's that they think people are stupid and we can't see through the bs.

Jym · 10-15-2019, 01:06 PM

I support the push for continued autonomy like was agreed to in the 1990s. Hard to deny that the mainland hasnt chipped away at that slowly.
So this is great if China pulls back a bit and follows the rules and timeline they agreed to.
But it seems like a lot of people are behind the idea of a full breakaway. China would prefer to just completely crush the island before they would let that happen.
No outside country could really stop that either.

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