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2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived
(03-26-2021, 08:11 AM)haveitall Wrote: Lonzo needs the ball (pun intended) in his hands and would take touches away from Luka.
Wait, isn't that the point of getting another ball handler?
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(03-26-2021, 02:34 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: Just saying Wiseman barely looks like an NBA basketball player right now and has battled injuries this entire year. He basically made a high school to NBA jump so it's not surprising he's struggling but he's going to need another year, maybe 2, to become competent. Why waste 2 years of Luka? 

The MIN pick is only good if it lands 4/5. If it does, then the Mavs have their choice at a top prospect in a pretty top heavy class which is good, but it's also putting even more faith in a rookie coming in and making an immediate impact. I think it's more of a gamble to hope 2 greenhorns turn out to be better than just KP even with his injury woes. 

Unless y'all are thinking to use Wiseman and the MIN pick to trade for another star? And if that's the case, why not just keep KP and use him to trade for that star you're going to use those assets for? 

It's been beaten to death. Mavs can't trade KP unless he breaks out, making him incredibly valuable. Any other scenario has the Mavs taking a multiple step backs from where they are now. It's a catch-22 because you need KP to play very well to make him a value target, but if he's playing super well there's no reason for the Mavs to trade him. 

Not trying to single you out btw, just using your post as a springboard.

KP's value is a lot higher than people think around here. He is considered a star. I think you could get that Wiseman + Minney pick any time you want it. I do worry about KP's happiness here. Maybe a playoff run will help make the guys grow closer together. Right now KP and Luka's relationship is weird on and off the court. They just seem like two guys that play on the same team but have no real chemistry.
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(03-25-2021, 10:00 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: Yeah I believe THJ is the guy gone. I've gone back and forth on it. 
But I think THJ has more value and arguably the better player but clearly worse on defense. 

If they really planned on him being back I don't think he's off the bench instead of DFS or Kleber. He said he believes he's a starter multiple times and while his attitude his good I don't think he likes being off the bench. I just have never gotten the vibe that's his end game. But he's a team player and will do it for now. 

I also think THJ's market will be much higher than Richardson. I'd suspect JR will get a deal somewhere around his current deal to 15 mill. I think THJ is getting 20 mill. It's a brutal market this summer overall and the shooting is very weak. 

I'm completely good with bringing them both back at this point. But I really don't see it happening. It's been my vibe from the minute we trade for Richardson.


There is no way THJ is getting 20 mil, who in the world is giving him that? NYK has the most cap space, they are certainly not giving him that. Most of the big cap space teams are rebuilding so they aren't going to pay THJ 20 mil a year. His market is lower than you think. I think he could and should have multiple full MLE multi-year deals. The Pels need shooting so I could see them giving him above MLE level money but in my view 15 is probably his max on a yearly basis. He is a shooter that plays hard but has limitations.

J Rich is still start money, somewhere where he gets paid now to that 15 mil mark. Again the issue for these guys is there aren't a bunch of teams with cap space that want to throw money at vets. The RFA market should be hot though.
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(03-26-2021, 02:49 AM)Mapka Wrote: Or they can just keep KP Confused

I like a KP-DP back to relativ health frontcourt ten times better than anything containing Capela.

I think th KP/DP frontcourt is dead. Maxi is the frontcourt partner for the forseeable future unless Mavs make a big trade for Collins. DP looks to be regaining his footing as the 3rd big in the rotation though.

The rotation that seems to be forming for the rest of the year is our top 7, Powell overtaking WCS' minutes at 15-20 and now JJ Reddick being the 9th guy that takes up that 10-15 min from Burke. WCS and Burke will just get spot minutes. I imagine Rick and the MBT are hoping they go get closer to that 9 man rotation with less top-heavy minutes from the starters.
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Mavs have a good squad to compete in the playoffs, just have to see where KP stands at the end of the year. I think if he is really unhappy you could see some kind of big trade involving Warriors or Hawks. If you did bring Collins here you'd have to find a good frontcourt partner for him sans KP (ie Turner or someone like that).
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(03-26-2021, 09:37 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: KP's value is a lot higher than people think around here. He is considered a star.

Fans may talk about him being a "star", but an NBA General Manager sees a guy on a max contract who hasn't even sniffed 3rd team All NBA who can't stay healthy for longer than 2 months and who is now being dangled by his 2nd team in 3 years .. which is generally not how "stars" are treated by their teams.    Like Minnesota lays awake at night thinking about ways they can keep KAT happy so that he stays.  That's how stars are treated in the NBA.  

And personally, I think the whole KP unhappiness thing is overblown.
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(03-26-2021, 09:45 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: There is no way THJ is getting 20 mil, who in the world is giving him that? NYK has the most cap space, they are certainly not giving him that. Most of the big cap space teams are rebuilding so they aren't going to pay THJ 20 mil a year. His market is lower than you think. I think he could and should have multiple full MLE multi-year deals. The Pels need shooting so I could see them giving him above MLE level money but in my view 15 is probably his max on a yearly basis. He is a shooter that plays hard but has limitations.

J Rich is still start money, somewhere where he gets paid now to that 15 mil mark. Again the issue for these guys is there aren't a bunch of teams with cap space that want to throw money at vets. The RFA market should be hot though.
My hope is 12-15 per for these guys cause I think that’s their value on a contending team. My fear is that it only takes 1 team to offer more.
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(03-26-2021, 10:02 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: My hope is 12-15 per for these guys cause I think that’s their value on a contending team. My fear is that it only takes 1 team to offer more.

I think it is more about the totals not the first year salary. Both are in their late 20s. This is probably the last big contract they will sign. An extra year could make a big difference for both.
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(03-26-2021, 10:11 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: I think it is more about the totals not the first year salary. Both are in their late 20s. This is probably the last big contract they will sign. An extra year could make a big difference for both.
I think that plays to our advantage too. If we can get both on the same contract starting at $12M for 5 years as opposed to teams offering $15M for 3-4 years, that becomes very advantageous!
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(03-26-2021, 10:19 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: I think that plays to our advantage too. If we can get both on the same contract starting at $12M for 5 years as opposed to teams offering $15M for 3-4 years, that becomes very advantageous!

I think the Mavs will try to match all contract lengths with KPs deal. Meaning that 3 years is the max they will offer. If the first build around Luka-KP and supporting cast fails they could make a cut and start from scratch (around Luka and 1-2 max slots).
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I haven’t seen anything, but did Brad address the Chris Haynes tweet that didn’t mention Dallas? I know that Brad’s had a few tweets mentioning how Dallas would pursue a bought out Drummond even though they expect him to go elsewhere, which is why I’m surprised Dallas wasn’t on the list of teams he is meeting with
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(03-26-2021, 11:23 AM)SamStetz Wrote: I know that Brad’s had a few tweets mentioning how Dallas would pursue a bought out Drummond even though they expect him to go elsewhere, which is why I’m surprised Dallas wasn’t on the list of teams he is meeting with


So, I obviously don't KNOW, but I suspect that what's missing here is the part where all the teams interested have already spoken to the agent and know what the player is looking for, particularly in terms of NEXT season. Dallas was probably only attractive to Drummond in that they potentially have space to PAY him next year. Maybe ending a season in LA and shot a championship is attractive, to a point, but really what the dude is focused on is getting his NEXT big deal. I'm fine with the Mavs being upfront about the fact that they don't intend to make that mistake.

My prediction is that he ends up in NY, and that he might even sign a deal there for more than the minimum (they have cap space.)
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(03-26-2021, 07:13 AM)Kammrath Wrote: A few things:

1) You make a GREAT point about the starting five. They continue to play amazing offense together and the best justification for the Mavs doing nothing at the TDL is their +12.5 net rating. Thanks for the reminder on that, we all need to be reminded of this data.

2) However your statement "the Mavs defense got unquestionable better with Jrich than without" is unequivocally false. The defense has been worse, MUCH worse with JR. The Mavs are 6.0 pts worse defensively this season in every minute he has played (1056 mins) versus when he has sat (965 mins). The offense has been better by 1.4 pts with JR, so if anything he has helped the offense.

3) The great starting lineup is playing better offense than anything the Mavs did last year, BUT they are also playing much worse defense, 5.8 pts worse in fact. So the net result of all the changes that happened this offseason have resulted in better offense and worse defense for what has become the starting core.

Are possessions the same? Are the teams playing at a similar pace since that means more offensive and defensive plays so both stats could appear to rise if not normalized.
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(03-26-2021, 09:57 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: Mavs have a good squad to compete in the playoffs, just have to see where KP stands at the end of the year. I think if he is really unhappy you could see some kind of big trade involving Warriors or Hawks. If you did bring Collins here you'd have to find a good frontcourt partner for him sans KP (ie Turner or someone like that).

To me, with everything that has gone on (short off season, earlier than expected start, almost no training camp, KP knee recovery, COVID, just to name a few) if the Mavs make it to the 2nd round and everyone finishes healthy then it's a win and anything past that is gravy.

Especially if KP finishes without some kind of injury that will require all offseason+ to recover. That should give him the ability to work on his areas for improvement. He should pay DFS to spend the summer guarding him so he gets more comfortable dealing with shorter guys and eliminates that as an option for opposing defenses.

Dirk tried to add something new for almost every year he played. The one-leg fadeaway didn't just happen, it took physical training and repetition. Luka is trying to bring something improved for each season, or so he says. KP hasn't had that as an option in about 3 years now. 

I'm no trainer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express (back before the pandemic).
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(03-26-2021, 09:37 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: KP's value is a lot higher than people think around here. He is considered a star. I think you could get that Wiseman + Minney pick any time you want it. 

I dont think you could get even one of those two assets right now.
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(03-26-2021, 12:01 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: I dont think you could get even one of those two assets right now.



You're right. The Warriors would never trade us Wiseman or the MIN pick for KP. We'd just deny them.

No, they need to up the ante if they want our 7'3 strong frame slenderman. The only fair return that's possible in my eyes is none other than their injury prone PG that has a long history of ankle issues. 

[Image: giphy.gif]
14x All-Star, 12x all-NBA, 1x MVP, 1x Finals MVP, 1 NBA Championship: Dirk Nowitzki, the man, the myth, the legend.
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(03-26-2021, 12:05 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: You're right. The Warriors would never trade us Wiseman or the MIN pick for KP. We'd just deny them.

No, they need to up the ante if they want our 7'3 strong frame slenderman. The only fair return that's possible in my eyes is none other than their injury prone PG that has a long history of ankle issues. 

[Image: giphy.gif]

To be fair, only the Mavs have made bad trades related to the Curry family.
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Based on everything I've heard/read...it's all been a version of:  "There's no way the Mavs could trade KP right now even if they arent convinced in him.  His value is as low as it has ever been.  Definitely lower than when the Mavs traded for him."

and I'm not even on the trade KP bus or I dislike KP train but obviously my outlook on him today is not the same as the day we made that trade with NY.  It's definitely lower.  Not sure how much lower. 

The Mavs got him for two low first round picks and DSJ.  Now he's had one more significant injury and is on a max contract.  There's no chance in hell you're getting essentially two top 5 picks for him.
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(03-26-2021, 12:01 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: I dont think you could get even one of those two assets right now.

Not unless they're attached to Wiggins.
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(03-26-2021, 09:53 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: I think th KP/DP frontcourt is dead. Maxi is the frontcourt partner for the forseeable future unless Mavs make a big trade for Collins. DP looks to be regaining his footing as the 3rd big in the rotation though.

The rotation that seems to be forming for the rest of the year is our top 7, Powell overtaking WCS' minutes at 15-20 and now JJ Reddick being the 9th guy that takes up that 10-15 min from Burke. WCS and Burke will just get spot minutes. I imagine Rick and the MBT are hoping they go get closer to that 9 man rotation with less top-heavy minutes from the starters.

I have Maxi as the third big in my imagination, because he will be playing the KP role as long as KP is sitting.

The minutes will be spread over this three with Boban and WCS sprinkled in. So I couldn't care less who is 2 or 3.

Just can't stand CC and Collins will be overpaid and scares the shit out of me with his PEDs.

Would have said I prefer Maxi/DP to them if it wasn't too ridiculous.
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