2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[StepBackJay]

KAT and LaVine are names to keep an eye on.

Those are the two names I think are interesting. LaVine especially bc he only has one more year left on his deal. A KAT for Wiseman + Minnesota's own pick + filler would be a funny and ironic trade that sort of also makes sense at some level.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

What if they paid him 30M/year for next four years.

Lmao

[StepBackJay]

I don't think KP is a bust in that he is still worth more than you paid for him and I would argue to a good degree. Doesn't mean the fit is there but I still think it was a good trade.

[SleepingHero]

Very early.  Gotta give players time coming off injuries.

I wonder where we should apply this same thinking right about now hmmmm.....

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

I don't think KP is a bust in that he is still worth more than you paid for him

I dunno.  If he were a free agent right this second, I am not 100% sure he gets a 5 year max with no protections for the team.

[StepBackJay]

I dunno.  If he were a free agent right this second, I am not 100% sure he gets a 5 year max with no protections for the team.

I feel pretty sure he'd get the max. How many guys at that level have any kind of protection clauses? Too few stars and KP is close enough that teams would pay up.

[StepBackJay]

Kp is also at the RFA max which isn't as bad. If he was at UFA max I think we'd be in trouble.

[StepBackJay]

Let's take New Orleans.  They have two legit young All Stars caliber talents, but they're 11th in the West because these two guys also largely play the same position and have the same skillsets and don't complement each other well.   So in the offseason they could decide they're ready to hand the keys of the franchise over to Zion and make hm the focal point of the franchise and look to ship Ingram for young complementary building blocks to build around Zion for the next 10 years.   If I'm the Warriors I'd much rather have Ingram than KP (in fact Ingram would be a pretty nice Durant lite with their core 3).   If I'm New Orleans, a young nucleus of  Zion + Wiseman + picks/pick swaps + dumping a bad contract (Bledsoe).  If I'm New Orleans, I might not even mind so much taking Wiggins in the trade if it netted more picks in the deal (especially if I could leverage it for the TWolves pick).   They need more 3D wings to put around Zion, and it's not like they're a free agent destination that would make them huge players in free agency in the next couple of years.

I don't see why New Orleans would trade Ingram. I think Ingram plus Zion makes a lot more sense than Zion and Wiseman.

[SleepingHero]

I don't see why New Orleans would trade Ingram. I think Ingram plus Zion makes a lot more sense than Zion and Wiseman.

Its interesting. The Pels seem like they're worse with Ingram+Zion. They literally ignore Zion in the 4th even if he's shooting an absurd 80% or something. 

Not saying I think they should trade Ingram right now, but it doesn't seem like Ingram wants to be the 2nd option. Seems like an impasse thats coming sooner than later and the Pels are going to trade him.

[cow]

I don't think KP is a bust in that he is still worth more than you paid for him and I would argue to a good degree. Doesn't mean the fit is there but I still think it was a good trade.

KP wasn't really inexpensive though.  New York got a young 1st round talent in DSj, got off of THJ and Courtney Lee's terrible contracts and two FRPs (one of those unprotected) for a guy that hadn't played in a year and was going to be a RFA.  I don't think you could get that type of value if you traded KP right now.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Disclaimer - Bobby Marks is good at this stuff, and I don't know what he wrote.

But if he said GS can't trade their 2021 pick, he goofed. If they wanted, GS could trade either the Minnesota pick, or their own.

Bobby Marks - "The Warriors owe Oklahoma City a top-20-protected first-round pick in 2021 from the Kelly Oubre Jr. trade. They will also send Memphis a top-four-protected first in 2024. The pick is top-one-protected in 2025 and unprotected in 2026. As a result of both trades, Golden State cannot trade its own first in any of the next seven seasons. The Warriors can trade the Minnesota (top-three-protected) 2021 first."

The above is what he said.  I suspect his point is that there is a chance the 2021 pick will convey to OKC.  So, you can't trade that one.  There's a chance it will convey.  So, you can't trade 2022 because you would be sending out two future picks in a row.  They have traded 2024, so they can't trade 2023.

It seems like they could trade 2021 conditionally.  So, Dallas receives the GS first if it falls between 1-20.  If it doesn't, they get the best of the Minnesota 2022 first (if not conveyed to GS in 2021) or the Minnesota 2021 second (which wouldn't convey if the GS first goes to OKC).  Clear?  Of course, they could make it easy and just trade us the Minnesota first whether it conveys in 21 or 22.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I’d take both gallo and bogi in a collins deal. They’d both fit here if Atlanta wants to hit the reset button. Wouldn’t be hard to salary match either

Something we should probably all bake into our thinking is where big deals like this leave us relative to the 21/22 cap.  Do we want to spend the MLE in the summer?  If so, we have to work backwards from the hard cap (plus some margin for error) to see where we are after paying Collins and adding Gallo and Bogi (or any other big dollar trade) 

All that assumes Cuban will pay LT at all.  It may be that we have to work backwards from the LT once trades are completed and potential Free Agents are figured in.  I've not done the math on this one and much would depend on who is the outgoing and what you do with your current Free Agents.  But, the sheer volume of dollars going to Gallo, Bogi and a signed Collins makes me think this might be an issue.

[DanSchwartzgan]

@"DanSchwartzgan" based on your tea leaf reading, what would you rank as your top 3-5 trade destinations for KP?

GSW...ATL...SAC...WAS...???

I'd probably put "Do Nothing" well ahead of any other option.

Then you have a fork in the road between 1. Something KP related and 2. Something not KP related.  I'm an advocate of trying to get Bird Rights or control guys through RFA status if you can.  But, we just don't have much to trade.  I don't have a good answer here.

If you go down the "Something KP related" path (to answer your question), I think GS is at the top based on all the negotiating through the media that seems to be going on (acknowledging that that is even more tea leaf reading I'm using to support my original tea leaf reading theory).  I'd probably put ATL next because of Collins being RFA, Schwartz being his agent and Luka possibly being interested in playing with Bogdanovic.  I don't think Washington and Sacramento have enough value to give.  Chicago might (maybe they are third), but I'm not sure they will want to give what Dallas should ask for.  They have a ton of cap room.  Would they be better off buying help or trading for it?

[StepBackJay]

KP wasn't really inexpensive though.  New York got a young 1st round talent in DSj, got off of THJ and Courtney Lee's terrible contracts and two FRPs (one of those unprotected) for a guy that hadn't played in a year and was going to be a RFA.  I don't think you could get that type of value if you traded KP right now.

I stopped reading when you mentioned they got "young 1st round talent in DSJ"

[dirkfansince1998]

I stopped reading when you mentioned they got "young 1st round talent in DSJ"

But he isn´t wrong. At that point in time DSJ was still viewed as a young and promising talent.

[chaparral]

In the Atl deal, why the interest in both Collins and Galo?

[cow]

Something we should probably all bake into our thinking is where big deals like this leave us relative to the 21/22 cap.  Do we want to spend the MLE in the summer?  If so, we have to work backwards from the hard cap (plus some margin for error) to see where we are after paying Collins and adding Gallo and Bogi (or any other big dollar trade) 

MLE for THT please and thank you.

I stopped reading when you mentioned they got "young 1st round talent in DSJ"

He was the 9th pick the previous year and had a good rookie campaign.  A lot of 1st round talent are busts.  That doesn't diminish that KP came at a hefty cost.  But go on with the revisionist history and TLDR nonsense.

[Jason Terry]

Something we should probably all bake into our thinking is where big deals like this leave us relative to the 21/22 cap.  Do we want to spend the MLE in the summer?  If so, we have to work backwards from the hard cap (plus some margin for error) to see where we are after paying Collins and adding Gallo and Bogi (or any other big dollar trade) 

All that assumes Cuban will pay LT at all.  It may be that we have to work backwards from the LT once trades are completed and potential Free Agents are figured in.  I've not done the math on this one and much would depend on who is the outgoing and what you do with your current Free Agents.  But, the sheer volume of dollars going to Gallo, Bogi and a signed Collins makes me think this might be an issue.

That’s an important point and i do not think we will go into LT for 21/22. Mainly because of the impending Luka max though the following year and not because Cuban won’t go into LT(i think he will when we have all the championship pieces in place).

Having said that, there’s just not much available in FA this summer. Maybe there’s a specific situation like Dragic let’s us know he will come on board for the MLE. Outside of something like that i think if we were to bring in multiple guys(now) that we need to pay then we would just make arrangements this summer to make everyone fit. Bringing in Bogi would almost certainly mean either Hardaway or Richardson walks. And with KP off the books and we had Collins and Gallo then likely Maxi would play more 5 and there would be less a need to bring in someone expensive. 

Overall i guess we need to be mindful of the cap ramifications, but with so many teams with space and so few decent players available I think it’s more important to bring in the talent we need first then figure it out later.

[StepBackJay]

But he isn´t wrong. At that point in time DSJ was still viewed as a young and promising talent.

Revisionist thinking. He was on the fast track to bustville. We are lucky that the Knicks are the Knicks.

[StepBackJay]

MLE for THT please and thank you.


He was the 9th pick the previous year and had a good rookie campaign.  A lot of 1st round talent are busts.  That doesn't diminish that KP came at a hefty cost.  But go on with the revisionist history and TLDR nonsense.

He did not come at a hefty cost. The cost was salary dumps our garbage players and 2 first round picks. It was a good trade. DSJ's value was tanking by the minute when he was here. My point is we could easily get back first rounders and likely more for KP today. In fact if that's all we got it would be a very low return, I think he can fetch much more because he still has a lot of upside.