2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[KillerLeft]

We'd have only 19 million$ (and no WCS or MLE) if we intend to keep JRich.

The other way to bring a max player is via trade begore the trade deadline, when Jojo and Tim's salaries are still tradable.

They could easily clear a lot more cap space without giving up Richardson’s hold if they wanted, especially if Powell stays healthy all season. Say what you want about his effectiveness so far, but he really did come back from the Achilles super fast, and he’s out there running, jumping...it’s actually pretty impressive. 

Having said all of that, I agree that at this point, the best path might be a TDL deal.

[pompelmo]

They could easily clear a lot more cap space without giving up Richardson’s hold if they wanted, especially if Powell stays healthy all season. Say what you want about his effectiveness so far, but he really did come back from the Achilles super fast, and he’s out there running, jumping...it’s actually pretty impressive. 

Having said all of that, I agree that at this point, the best path might be a TDL deal.

Excuse me if I am being a smart ass saying something you already know, but JRich's cap hold is not equal to his option. Clearing Powell's salary won't be enough (which I think would cost us. Even prime Powell on a 10 million$ per year deal would be a neutral asset at best). You'd need to clear 5 million$ more.

But on a second thought, yeah, we won't suffer much if we dump Burke and Iwundu too (we can also opt to not pick Jalen's option). However we would still lose the full MLE and scramble to round up the roster to fill the void of 7 players (Jojo, Tim, Dwight, WCS, Boban, Trey, Wes) with the room exception and minimum salaries, after giving the full max to someone.

I don't see the need to strip the roster to bring another max player, who would probably be overpaid looking at what is left. If that is the case, why not bring an already overpaid player via trade and keep the MLE, right?

[F Gump]

We'd have only 19 million$ (and no WCS or MLE) if we intend to keep JRich.

Or less.

I get it. I wasn't saying there is max cap room looming in the Mavs 2021 summer (unless a player like Giannis is a free agent wanting to sign.) But there might be ways to get another max player, perhaps, to add to most of the existing talent.

My point instead (when mentioning "only one more player making max money") was a point pertaining to the practical limits of team payrolls.

The conversation here flows to ideas of adding a max-salary SG and a max-salary forward, and hey we have to pay J-Rich too, and how about spending MLEs and swapping JJ's expiring to add more, and on we go, when instead our reality is that the Mavs are already facing either-or choices.

They have KP on a max, and Luka will be soon. They won't want to gather more than 3 max guys altogether. (You just can't afford 4. It's hard to even afford 3.) So with that being the reality, "he's better than what we have now" might not be reason enough to opt for him if he's going to pull max money and he's not going to make you significantly better on both ends.

[F Gump]

Oh, and about the random comments on how they can clear Powell's salary and add to the ability to spend and any discussion on if that gets them to enough spending room for this or that -

Guys, that's not even worth discussing. If some team will take Powell's deal, and send back an expiring contract, you gotta say yes immediately and then figure the rest out later.

What else does it take to get enough money for this or that? Wow, who cares.

Hey Danny Ainge, Cuban fleeced you out of Powell in the Rondo deal, don't you want to trick the Mavs and get him back, if the Mavs have a weak moment? That's a fantasy, of course. I have to think Powell's contract will be in the way for several more years (as he's so easily replaceable for so much less). But I'd be glad if a taker came along to prove me wrong. Elated.

[KillerLeft]

Excuse me if I am being a smart ass saying something you already know, but JRich's cap hold is not equal to his option. Clearing Powell's salary won't be enough (which I think would cost us. Even prime Powell on a 10 million$ per year deal would be a neutral asset at best). You'd need to clear 5 million$ more.

Oh, for sure. We all know all of this here. We discussed it all way too much back when Giannis was a possibility.

It actually wouldn't be that difficult to move Powell, imo (if he stays healthy all season). Much less difficult than it would have been if they had tried to do it this past off-season, for sure. And LITERALLY everyone else on the roster is on a value deal, with the exception of Porzingis. Clearing a max spot and keeping Richardson's cap hold ($16.5 million, if memory serves) would not be impossible or even difficult, imo.

Like I said though...so many interesting 2021 free agency names have already come off the board. I'm of the thinking now that if they go into free agency looking for a difference maker, the chances of success are kind of slim. I mean, there will be up and coming stars who move - there always are. Surprise trades, restricted free agents whose teams don't match, surprise opt outs, etc, etc. But, I think the best chance for the Mavs might be to use that cap space early by building a trade around 1-2 of those expiring contracts at the deadline. And btw, I'm not opposed to Richardson being included for the right guy, but that's just me.

[Thukydides]

Random thought: how do we feel about throwing an almost max offer at Duncan Robinson next offseason?

[StepBackJay]

We'd have only 19 million$ (and no WCS or MLE) if we intend to keep JRich.

The other way to bring a max player is via trade begore the trade deadline, when Jojo and Tim's salaries are still tradable.

I am ab 95% sure the plan will be to keep J Rich else they would not have brought him here.

I do think trading for the guy you want is a good idea even though it will take an asset or two it means you can protect yourself from being outbid.

[omahen]

Random thought: how do we feel about throwing an almost max offer at Duncan Robinson next offseason?

Besides the salary that would basically cost us JRich and THJ too. So I don't think it is worth it.

[Thukydides]

Besides the salary that would basically cost us JRich and THJ too. So I don't think it is worth it.

We don´t have bird rights on J-Rich? I wouldn´t mind losing THJ

[omahen]

We don´t have bird rights on J-Rich? I wouldn´t mind losing THJ

JRich bird rights are about 17 mil, which leaves us with around 17 mil of cap space, if you renounce THJ, WCS and Boban. I think 17 mil would be matched by Miami easily.

[Thukydides]

JRich bird rights are about 17 mil, which leaves us with around 17 mil of cap space, if you renounce THJ, WCS and Boban. I think 17 mil would be matched by Miami easily.

Ah I see, the cap hold is that high. That´s unfortunate. Get rid of Powell then by attaching draft stuff. Robinson would be unreal here.

[StepBackJay]

JRich bird rights are about 17 mil, which leaves us with around 17 mil of cap space, if you renounce THJ, WCS and Boban. I think 17 mil would be matched by Miami easily.

Miami is going to get a tier 1 FA, they don't have time for J Rich even tho they do like him. They will get the pick of the best FA. I think realistically that is going to be Dipo.

[Branduil]

Johnson and Brunson feel like the most likely to get traded by the deadline. Ideally for a starting PF.

[MFFL OLD]

Johnson and Brunson feel like the most likely to get traded by the deadline. Ideally for a starting PF.

As long as we get a backup point guard in return then that's fine

I would feel shorthanded having just Luka and Burke

[KillerLeft]

As long as we get a backup point guard in return then that's fine

I would feel shorthanded having just Luka and Burke

[pompelmo]

Johnson and Brunson feel like the most likely to get traded by the deadline. Ideally for a starting PF.

That's actually a match for the Aaron Gordon trade suggested on this board before: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y44jpabr 


They might be sincere about keeping Johnson for the play-offs to bring toughness on the floor however.

[Omega_Supreme]

Step 1: THJ+DFS for OPJ

Step 2: James Johnson+future pick for Aaron Gordon

STARTERS / 2nd UNIT / RESERVES

Luka / Brunson
JRich / Burke / Terry
OPJ / Green / Hinton / Iwundu
Gordon / Maxi
KP / Powell / WCS / Boban

What's not to like?

That's actually a match for the Aaron Gordon trade suggested on this board before: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y44jpabr 


They might be sincere about keeping Johnson for the play-offs to bring toughness on the floor however.

I am not sure I like that trade

I like Gordon but seems we should be getting another piece. We are giving them cap relief and a starting caliber point guard. We would need to have a young player in return or a draft pick. 

Brunson and Gordon are equal value IMO, young starting caliber point guards are hard to find in the league

[StepBackJay]

As long as we get a backup point guard in return then that's fine

I would feel shorthanded having just Luka and Burke

Ya I mean I think our starting PF is Maxi honestly. I don't believe Mavs need to get a starting PF bc Maxi is like the perfect 3D wing that is versatile enough to defend basically all 5 positions?

Moving Brunson for a PF wouldn't work unless its like Tobias Harris or something and I don't see a trade like that materializing.

Mavs need at least the number of scorers they have now (Luka, THJ, Burke, Brunson) if not an additional player that can score and/or play-make. It appears Burke and Brunson do better not playing together so I bet their minutes get staggered. Honestly I think this roster is fine as is for right now. Mavs have assets they can move for the right deal but they don't have to do anything.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Mavs need at least the number of scorers they have now (Luka, THJ, Burke, Brunson) if not an additional player that can score and/or play-make. It appears Burke and Brunson do better not playing together so I bet their minutes get staggered. Honestly I think this roster is fine as is for right now. Mavs have assets they can move for the right deal but they don't have to do anything.

We are about to add a 20 ppg guy to the lineup, so check that box.  I'm as prolific a fantasy trader as the next guy and certainly acknowledge that trading before the TDL is likely to be more productive than waiting until the summer.  But, I'm struggling to find deals that make much sense (other than Powell/Johnson for your all-star type pipe dreams).  With the play-in games and changed lottery odds, it is going to be harder to find lopsided deals where bad teams give away good players.  With a thinned out FA class in 2021, it will be hard to find cap clearing financial deals.  I'm beginning to think it is much greater than 50/50 that we stand pat.

[mvossman]

We are about to add a 20 ppg guy to the lineup, so check that box.  I'm as prolific a fantasy trader as the next guy and certainly acknowledge that trading before the TDL is likely to be more productive than waiting until the summer.  But, I'm struggling to find deals that make much sense (other than Powell/Johnson for your all-star type pipe dreams).  With the play-in games and changed lottery odds, it is going to be harder to find lopsided deals where bad teams give away good players.  With a thinned out FA class in 2021, it will be hard to find cap clearing financial deals.  I'm beginning to think it is much greater than 50/50 that we stand pat.

I am worried that is where we are headed.  My biggest concern is that when it is determined that we will operate over the cap next off season, our only option for JRich, THJ and Johnson is to resign them or lose them for nothing.  It seems to me that gives those players (especially the first two) all of the leverage.  After watching the Clippers in a similar situation sign Morris to 60+ mil, I'm worried how expensive these guys will get.  

Considering how dried up this next free agency is looking (and may get worse), I feel like they need to at least trade Johnson at the deadline.  He is not part of the long term plans, and it would be nice to get some value out of his expiring.  I would totally pull the trigger on a Johnson/Brunson for Gordon trade, but I seriously doubt that gets it done.  Don't think Brunson is viewed as a starter quality point guard around the league.