MavsBoard

(12-15-2020, 03:28 PM)Kidnova Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I'm not saying for sure they had a shot at him, but I did want them to take a swing at the time.  I'm really not trying to imply that they made a bad decision, just trying to clear the spiderwebs from my bball memory to see if reserving for GA hurt the team in the long run.

Not in the least... unless you think that Wright/Jackson 2nd rd pick could have been used better.  Other transactions this year were flawless.  (and I like that one as well).

RIP GA hopes...  it was fun.  In the end, it came down to something else besides winning - like he said was the main focus.  That is a shame.  

There isn't anyone in the League (not on the Mavs) that I would have liked to add more than GA... I love his game, his fit here, his attitude, and yes - ultimately, his loyalty.  I will root for him when he doesn't play the Mavs.  But he dun screwed up.  Haha!

I dont think he screwed up.  It would be like Dirk going to join Kobe in LA to win more titles.  

This is great for the NBA instead of all the douches that want to team up to form superteams.

(12-15-2020, 04:12 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]I dont think he screwed up.  It would be like Dirk going to join Kobe in LA to win more titles.  

This is great for the NBA instead of all the douches that want to team up to form superteams.

Part of me agrees.

But, the other part knows that there will be a super team up and running for the duration of Luka's career (and Giannis's, for that matter) making even the idea of winning a championship a perennial long shot. 

I know we all expected this, and hope is not lost, but I don't blame people if they want to let the feels in just for a bit today.

(12-15-2020, 03:34 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]I don't really think the Mavs missed out on anything, but that said ... cap space is just really overrated in general as an asset.  I don't get why fans get so wound up that a guy is making $9 million when they think he's worth like $6 million, but good Lord does it make fans skew their perceptions of players over that $3 million difference.  Especially when you're paying your own guys, there's something to be said for taking care of  your guys who have shed blood for your organization and guys that your superstars currently enjoy playing with.

Well capspace can only be judged relative to the players you have under contract. For the Mavs it´s not a problem, because we have a very healthy cap structure at the moment with the exception of Dwight Powell. If we had Barnes, Wright and Powell tied up for $45M you f***** bet that capspace would be the bomb.

We can navigate a bigger trade and a reasonably big free agent signing, because we are already in a position that we can use our remaining assets purely toward the talent acquisition rather than the subtraction of our shitty contracts.

(12-15-2020, 04:15 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Part of me agrees.

But, the other part knows that there will be a super team up and running for the duration of Luka's career (and Giannis's, for that matter) making even the idea of winning a championship a perennial long shot. 

I know we all expected this, and hope is not lost, but I don't blame people if they want to let the feels in just for a bit today.

Maybe this next wave of NBA Superstars won't be as pathetic as Lebron and the Banana Boat Boys.  Maybe Giannis ushers in a new era that is less about mentally weak stars forming super teams and more about grinding...however long it may take...to get to the mountain top.

Maybe players decide to do it like Dirk or Kobe instead of like Lebron, Wade, Bosh, KD, Kawhi, AD, George, CP3, etc.

The cynic in me thinks, and has posted, that I am not at all impressed with what MIL has put together and Giannis will force his way out before this contract is up.

But I would love to be wrong about that.  I'd love to see Giannis chase rings in MIL, Luka in DAL, Booker in PHX, Ja in Memphis, SGA in OKC, Spida in UTA, Jamal and the Joker in DEN...and the list goes on.  

It's fun to see guys grow roots, have cities rally behind them as the face of the franchise, suffer the agony of the climb...and of course something special when it culminates like it did for Dirk and the Mavs.  

And the added benefit of Free Agency becoming less blockbuster than the ring chasing generation of players soon to be on their way out of the league....teams have to build through the draft and trades and I 100% trust Donnie in the trade market and am hoping this draft was the beginning of a new emphasis on that portion of team building.

(12-15-2020, 04:54 PM)MaxiThreeba Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe players decide to do it like Dirk or Kobe instead of like Lebron, Wade, Bosh, KD, Kawhi, AD, George, CP3, etc.

The cynic in me thinks, and has posted, that I am not at all impressed with what MIL has put together and Giannis will force his way out before this contract is up.

But I would love to be wrong about that.  I'd love to see Giannis chase rings in MIL, Luka in DAL, Booker in PHX, Ja in Memphis, SGA in OKC, Spida in UTA, Jamal and the Joker in DEN...and the list goes on.  

It's fun to see guys grow roots, have cities rally behind them as the face of the franchise, suffer the agony of the climb...and of course something special when it culminates like it did for Dirk and the Mavs.  

And the added benefit of Free Agency becoming less blockbuster than the ring chasing generation of players soon to be on their way out of the league....teams have to build through the draft and trades and I 100% trust Donnie in the trade market and am hoping this draft was the beginning of a new emphasis on that portion of team building.

Ring chasing is going nowhere. It has been around since way before Lebron, he was just the first one to lean into it and wear it like a badge of honor. There is no going back to the sport as we remember it before 2010. 

What Giannis did today might make some old heads feel better (no disrespect intended - I'm merely talking about people who remember the good old days with longing) but he's not going to win a championship with Milwaukee this season, and by this time next year the national narrative will be "Giannis isn't good enough to get it done." You don't have to be a fortune teller to see that coming from a mile away.

I'm happy for him in the sense that he has acquired generational wealth that will set his great, great grandchildren up for life. But, imho, he just flushed his basketball legacy down the toilet. I'm not saying that every guy in his situation needs to jump ship for a sure thing (there are no sure things, anyway), just the ones who play in Milwaukee. 

I think this is a terrible day for the NBA. I think Giannis has like two more years of relevance, and then he'll be yesterday's news. I would so much rather have seen him go to Miami, Toronto...anywhere else, almost.

Giannis probably realizes he can always just demand a trade if things continue to go poorly.

Anyway it was a nice dream while it lasted, but now we can go back to building the team the old-fashioned way. At least we found out now instead of being stuck in free agency limbo.

What I find truly ironic is that some people seem to think this development should somehow reassure us about Luka's future in Dallas. 

I think it's exactly the opposite. I think the odds that Luka stays in Dallas when his rookie extension expires took a pretty significant hit today. Long time between now and then, so a ton of things can change, but if I'm the Mavs I feel like the only shot I have is not only to be competitive by then (easily doable) but to be one of the 2-3 absolute national favorites to win the title (very, very difficult).

(12-15-2020, 05:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]What I find truly ironic is that some people seem to think this development should somehow reassure us about Luka's future in Dallas. 

I think it's exactly the opposite. I think the odds that Luka stays in Dallas when his rookie extension expires took a pretty significant hit today. Long time between now and then, so a ton of things can change, but if I'm the Mavs I feel like the only shot I have is not only to be competitive by then (easily doable) but to be one of the 2-3 absolute national favorites to win the title (very, very difficult).

I am one of those who feels this is good. As a Mavs fan who has been repeatedly burnt before, I never had high hopes of Giannis landing here. So the most likely outcome would have been Giannis going elsewhere to form a super team and Luka thinking that is the path for him too. 

Giannis is saying rings are not the be all / end all. As someone aptly wrote in this thread, ESPN can spin it however they want. KD’s rings don’t mean much to me.  However it had got to the point where greats like Barkley, Malone and Ewing were looked at as lesser greats due to not having a ring. So much so that every star these days felt the need for a ring to justify their legacy. 

Hopefully today is the start of a new trend that more than rings, the way you get it matters. That can only help the Mavs.

@"hakeemfan" It's not that I don't understand that way of thinking - I do. 

I just don't harbor any optimism about any of that. The game has changed forever, imo. 

I think Dirk would've been Dirk in any era. The Mavs got super lucky with him, personality wise. He was the right guy for the right market. Giannis is similar to him - maybe even more grateful to Milwaukee than Dirk was to Dallas, as Giannis grew up poor. 

I know we have some Slovenians in the community who've followed Luka for a long time, but I've read/watched/heard enough about him already to know that, while he is a fine young man and far from being a Hardenesque scumbag, he regards himself HIGHLY. I'm telling you now (feel free to disagree, but I'm not backing off of this): this kid is going to get FRUSTRATED when they don't win. WAY more than Dirk ever did. He walked into the NBA thinking he was SUPPOSED to win. Dirk wondered if he was good enough to play here and almost quit during his first season. The two personalities couldn't be more different. 

I will be SHOCKED if he stays in Dallas longterm, unless doing so provides him with the best chance of winning. Not a chance, but the best chance. 

And, in a general way, those of us hoping that this whole AAU superteam thing was a passing fad...idk, man. I think those folks are cruising for disappointment. I think it's going to get worse and worse and worse (from those people's perspectives). You've got to remember that to the majority of people under 30, Lebron is a HERO. He liberated athletes from their corporate masters and taught them how to take control over their lives, careers and fortunes. It's only people who view this all from the angle that things were better before who have a problem with this new way, and they're dying. The youngins don't care about teams anymore - they LIKE it this way. In my view, Giannis's decision today will have no effect on this tide, whatsoever.

In my opinion, it's pointless to debate whether this new mentality is good or bad, but I do hope the Mavs are doing everything they can to understand it and adapt.

I thought the Mavs had a chance to get GA, but absent that, this is the best result. If he’d have gone to Miami, that would have created a huge obstacle in the Mavs way. The Bucks aren’t as big of a threat. The Mavs are really good. The young players have developed well. They just pulled off a heist to get a perfectly fitting wing for the starting lineup. They may not even need another splashy player to win a title. The Mavs have a super star, a potential star sidekick (though the jury is still out on KP), every kind of player you can think of in the supporting cast, and a coach who knows how to use a deep, versatile roster. If KP is right, they have as good a chance as anyone, even without GA. I wouldn’t be surprised if they win the title, this season.

Thank God this silly Greek Freak dream is dead.

(12-15-2020, 05:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]What I find truly ironic is that some people seem to think this development should somehow reassure us about Luka's future in Dallas. 

I think it's exactly the opposite. I think the odds that Luka stays in Dallas when his rookie extension expires took a pretty significant hit today. Long time between now and then, so a ton of things can change, but if I'm the Mavs I feel like the only shot I have is not only to be competitive by then (easily doable) but to be one of the 2-3 absolute national favorites to win the title (very, very difficult).

I think it is quite the pessimistic take.

Firstly, why can't the Mavs become a 2-3 National favorite with Luka at the helm? What is stopping them from achieving that? The Lakers last year had Lebron+AD and a bunch of washed up vets and they were considered great because of their stars. Has Luka shown us anything but that he's blossoming into a bonafide MVP candidate? Same with the Clippers, who had Kawhi+George and a great cast of role players, but were struck by bad chemistry. I look at the Mavs roster, and while it isn't on the same level, the composition  of it is quite similar. 2 stars (1 with health concerns) and a band of quality role players.

Secondly, the Bucks+Giannis just showed that sometimes stars don't choose to resign because it is the best chance to win. If that was the case Giannis would've come here for a superteam. Luka has repeatedly shown a desire to win big, but he's also said similar things about loyalty source here (https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/lu...vs-want-me) https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/117977...wcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnba%2Fmavericks%2Fnews%2Fluka-doncics-bold-dirk-like-commitment-i-want-to-stay-here-as-long-as-the-mavs-want-me 

His own mother came out and said that she can see Luka staying in Dallas his entire career because of how happy he is there (https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/maveri...-that-way/)

So I don't really buy your take at all that Luka will sacrifice his legacy to chase a ring. Obviously feelings change, but its also obvious that Luka is happy with what the Mavs are doing so far. He's also the type of player that OTHER players join to win a ring, not vice versa. I mean sheesh, the Mavs nearly took down the Clips without KP and Luka on 1 ankle last year, so I'm excited to see what he can do with a fully healthy revamped squad.

Finally, Luka is going to be locked up guaranteed for the next 7 years. He's going to sign his max rookie extension in 2 years, which will lock him down for the next 5. After that if the supermax is still around Luka will have that available to him.

I for one don't think the Mavs are just going to sit idly by the next 7 years and just keep the same role players. There isn't an iota of evidence that that's how they're approaching team building under Luka so far. So I can get your concern, but I don't see how you can read these tea leaves and come away with that conclusion.

(12-15-2020, 04:12 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]This is great for the NBA instead of all the douches that want to team up to form superteams.

Here is the catch, those douches are going nowhere. 
Who is Giannis toughest competition to the title?

LALA: They were one of the worst run franchise, drafted many underwhelming players. But Lebron decided to go there and told AD to join him. AD screws his franchise and one year later he is a champion.
LAC: Kawhi picked them, and told them to get PG to play with him. 
Nets: Durant and Kyrie choose each other, choose the franchise with the best role players and even another FA signing in Deandre
Heat: Again, Butler choose that team forcing his way out of 3 teams. and they maneuvered their cap space to get him
Denver: Only organically made team. They have a legit future HOF in Jokic, a great 2nd option in Jamal and many other pieces to get a super star if they want.

Giannis has just decided to play under rules that doesn't exist anymore.

(12-15-2020, 07:01 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the catch, those douches are going nowhere. 

I concur.

@"SleepingHero" I don't blame you for calling my take pessimistic. It IS a little pessimistic. I happen to think it's fairly realistic, though, and I've thought a LOT about it over the past year. No amount of back and forth conversation is going to change my mind, and I doubt yours will budge much, either. We will find out what happens in due time, obviously.

In the meantime, I'm a Mavs fan, and I'll always root (thanks @"Mavsfan12") for them and hope for the best. 

I'm not going to go full "Ringsarethething" and badger everyone with this constantly, don't worry. I just think today is an appropriate time to touch on it a little due to the change in Giannis's situation. It's like musical chairs. There are fewer and fewer options as we get closer to Luka's extension date. 

If they don't have something really good by the time he signs that thing, I'm going to be really, really disappointed. 

If KP is your 2nd best player, you're literally waiting for Lebron to get too old (AND hoping the Clippers continue to not figure things out). By the time that happens, there WILL be another super team. I was really hoping it could be our Mavericks, but I'm starting to accept the idea that they'll be underdogs for the entire Luka era, just like they were for Dirk's.