(02-10-2022, 04:54 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Hey Mavs, good luck with the Bertans/Dinwiddie era. Our era is shorter.
Ha ha!! There is no Bertans/Dinwiddle "era". That's kind of the point of the trade!!
We have a couple of role players on smaller contracts. These contracts and the personalities attached to them aren't albatrosses. And these players won't have the stature (max contract, supposed 2nd star) to hold sway over team direction and style of play issues.
We traded the KP era for role players with more tradable contracts who don't cast a negative shadow over the team.
(02-10-2022, 05:05 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]Tyler had it right in his assessment. We have evidence that having KP simply does not make the Mavericks a better team. It's a marginal upgrade even if he plays.
We may trash this trade if Bertans and Dinwiddie are as bad as last year, but this team is likely better and deeper now than they were yesterday and if they play regularly. What's the use of having a player who is constantly injured? If he doesn't play, it doesn't matter what his contract value is. The team doesn't benefit.
Your optimism and rational is a guiding beacon during what is probably one of the darkest days in my Mavs fandom the last 3 years.
(02-10-2022, 04:15 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Devil's Advocate (your way might have been better).
I think this signals that they are (and more importantly, want to be) DONE with the cap room approach for a while. Otherwise, I think they do exactly what you said: let him expire and probably line up some other expiring deals to coincide.
I think they believe they can transition these players into other players much more easily than they could've done with Porzingis.
Agree with this assessment. The biggest thing I take from it is Nico just said “this is my team and I’m taking out the junk that was left behind by my predecessor.” I can appreciate that “fresh start” approach even if I think he is going about it the wrong way.
(02-10-2022, 05:07 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Your optimism and rational is a guiding beacon during what is probably one of the darkest days in my Mavs fandom the last 3 years.
Dude!
We just got news of an impending DFS extension!!!!
That makes this one of the top 10 days of in Mavs history!!!
(02-10-2022, 05:08 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Dude!
We just got news of an impending DFS extension!!!!
That makes this one of the top 10 days of in Mavs history!!!
That has definitely brightened it up. Only way this turns around is if Brunson signs a 4/55 extension in the next 30 minutes.
(02-10-2022, 04:57 PM)SatnamSingh Wrote: [ -> ]serious question: have you watched Dinwiddie or Bertans play a single game this year?
I have not. But I know that each of them has played well in the past. But, really, it's not even that important in my mind. KP is gone, we have more tradable contracts instead, and we have two guys who might be able to be rehabbed. That's a win for me.
(02-10-2022, 05:09 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]That has definitely brightened it up. Only way this turns around is if Brunson signs a 4/55 extension in the next 30 minutes.
Well Mavs will already be in the luxury tax to start next season. Bet Cuban attaches Josh Green to dump Bertans.
(02-10-2022, 05:05 PM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]This is really not the question though.
Trades are made based on asset values. Based on everything I've read and listened to (and to be honest I follow the rest of the NBA more than the Mavs now since I dont have Bally but I do have NBA ticket), Bertans and Dinwiddie are more negative value than KP is. Mavs should have gotten compensation.
Sure I think Bertans and Dinwiddie could be better here. To me, that doesnt change that the Mavs still got shafted.
You dont trade the 7th pick in the draft for the 14th pick in the draft and turn around and say this guy we are drafting at 14th is more likely to help us than the guy we would have taken at 7th. So see it all makes sense. We're super smart.
(02-10-2022, 05:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yikes! Two points here:
1) @"SleepingHero", I did NOT mean that sentence that way, but if it came across that way to you, I'm VERY sorry! Truly.
2) My question to @"Mavs2021" wasn't an attempt to clap back or show distaste. I literally do not care what he thinks of my intelligence. I just wanted to understand his meaning so I could process his point and move forward in the conversation, that's all. No hard feelings on my part, even if he had meant to insult me. I can take it!
Pretty much what Omahen said. The Mavs have a history of bad decisions, literally 10 straight years of the most god awful decisions, so to me it would be logical that once again they made a bad decision. Maybe if this was Masai Ujiri, Pat Riley or Jerry West with a proven track record of excellence, then I would concede that it´s likely this was the best possible offer and that there is a long-term strategic decision behind it.
Given that it´s the biggest moron in the league signing off on this deal, I assume that it´s just another very bad decision and not the best offer that could be negotiated.
You really think the Wizards don´t accept this deal, if we don´t include the 2nd rounder or insist on Thomas Bryant, who they will lose for nothing in the summer anyway.
The Wizards were desperate to show Bradley Beal that they are committed to winning in the future. They were more desperate than us to make a big player deal. We once again acted like it was us in the position of weakness, when it really was the Wizards.
You can take this any way you want.
(02-10-2022, 05:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]What I'm suggesting is that there wasn't a "decision" to made here, other than simply not trading KP.
I think it was this deal or keep him, and I don't believe they thought keeping him was better than this deal. My point was to address this idea that there were better deals out there. I don't believe there were.
I don't believe Toronto offered Dragic+filler+1st, for example. I think that's imaginary.
YOU would've kept him. That's clear. I get it.
They weren't going to do that, obviously.
I did not say there were better deals right now. I said if this is the best then you hold on till the summer and try again. Why this rush? Even if Luka and KP can’t stand each other and the Mavs were desperate they still have to have the awareness that the Wiz were desperate as well and had two inferior players on longer, albeit less money, than KP. If the Wiz were not budging a smart team would have held off. To not get a pick back when taking lesser players on bad contracts is not good. Plus that is the minimum that would have made this deal palatable to me.
(02-10-2022, 05:07 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Ha ha!! There is no Bertans/Dinwiddle "era". That's kind of the point of the trade!!
We have a couple of role players on smaller contracts. These contracts and the personalities attached to them aren't albatrosses. And these players won't have the stature (max contract, supposed 2nd star) to hold sway over team direction and style of play issues.
We traded the KP era for role players with more tradable contracts who don't cast a negative shadow over the team.
The point is that you can't easily move either contract so they are here 2-3 more years after this season. They'll take up 42% of your salary cap. I'd say those contract lengths and amounts are indictive of an era. Further, indications from the Wizards locker room is that Bertans' personality is an albatross (at least his personality matches his contract).
This trade hinges on Dimwiddie being useful. We'd have been better off giving KP the John Wall treatment.
(02-10-2022, 05:04 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]I still can´t figure out why it should be easier to trade Bertans and Dinwiddie.
It's because they can be separated and combined with other, not sucky things to make marginal improvements that don't require 5 players coming back from the other team. Those deals don't actually happen in real life all that often.
MOST Max level guys are GOOD, and not available. Yes, Westbrook has been traded, but it's always for an equally bad contract. Even as an expiring deal, KP's deal was going to be hard to move without some poopoo coming back. They ripped the bandaid off in the hopes of inching towards being more flexible...just not in a way that signals an upcoming cap space year (I'd think many around here would be happy about that).
If you don't want the money to expire earlier, then this was the way to go (though I hate the two players they got just as much as you do).
(02-10-2022, 05:12 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]I said if this is the best then you hold on till the summer and try again.
Again, I think it's clear that
they thought this was the most distasteful possible option, and I, personally, can understand why.
The deal probably would've been similar, even over the summer.
I honestly wish they'd have gotten this over with at the LAST trade deadline.
(02-10-2022, 05:14 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]It's because they can be separated and combined with other, not sucky things to make marginal improvements that don't require 5 players coming back from the other team. Those deals don't actually happen in real life all that often.
MOST Max level guys are GOOD, and not available. Yes, Westbrook has been traded, but it's always for an equally bad contract. Even as an expiring deal, KP's deal was going to be hard to move without some poopoo coming back. They ripped the bandaid off in the hopes of inching towards being more flexible...just not in a way that signals an upcoming cap space year (I'd think many around here would be happy about that).
If you don't want the money to expire earlier, then this was the way to go (though I hate the two players they got just as much as you do).
The problem is you paid for the two lesser contracts in this swap and in order to move off them, you'll need to pay again.
(02-10-2022, 05:05 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly if this was the best deal they could've gotten then you just have to wait.
Two smart guys, you and @"hakeemfan", say that we should have waited. OK. But I don't understand why. What would be the benefit of waiting? Would KP's contract have become easier to move in the summer? Would his max contract be more helpful in trades this summer than the two smaller ones?
(02-10-2022, 05:13 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]The point is that you can't easily move either contract so they are here 2-3 more years after this season.
I don't think both of these players will still be here when KP's deal expires, and it's possible that neither of them will be. I think "easily movable" is a stretch, as you say, but I don't think "much more easily movable than KP" is a stretch at all. Could be wrong.
You'll disagree with me, but if I'm right, does that assuage your distaste somewhat?
Okay so after having a couple hours to digest the trade, I don’t hate it as much. I think Bertans will benefit from all the open looks that Luka generates. Maybe the Mavs get 12-14 PPG off the bench from him at 40%+ from 3. Maybe Dinwiddie can get back to the 17/5 guy he was off the bench in Brooklyn or close to it. KP hasn’t been playing and the Mavs have looked good. The biggest problem I have with the trade is including the 2nd round pick and knowing the Mavs have absolutely no one to protect the rim now.
Dinwiddie and Bertans fit decently around the cornerstones of Luka and Brunson, much more so than Porzingis, who never really saw himself as the role player that he had become here.
The risk with holding onto to KP was ending up with something completely untradable after another inevitable, season-ending lower body injury.
The only thing I’m left scratching my head about is the Hardaway situation.
(02-10-2022, 05:17 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Two smart guys, you and @"hakeemfan", say that we should have waited. OK. But I don't understand why. What would be the benefit of waiting? Would KP's contract have become easier to move in the summer? Would his max contract be more helpful in trades this summer than the two smaller ones?
What is the risk? That you lost out on Bertans and Dimwiddie and are stuck with KP? I will take that risk. As others have pointed out the Wiz were even more desperate than us to put a talent, albeit a fragile one, next to Beal. Luka at least is not going anywhere the next few years. They have to keep Beal happy. Given that how do you not even get a FRP back? Call their bluff and accept the risk, if you want to call it that, of KP staying. Instead we even gave up a pick. SMH.
This trade is so bad I can't figure out whether Bertans or Dinwiddie is the bigger lost cause.
I guess I can see Bertans rebounding with the 3. The rest of his game is complete garbage. He will make THJ look like Thuybulle.
Dinwiddie I cant figure out if he needs another year to recooperate or if he's completely washed. Torn ACLs in both knees. Needed athletic ability to get to the rim. Could never shoot. THJ level defender. He's basically Delon Wright with worse defense.
(02-10-2022, 05:17 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think both of these players will still be here when KP's deal expires, and it's possible that neither of them will be. I think "easily movable" is a stretch, as you say, but I don't think "much more easily movable than KP" is a stretch at all. Could be wrong.
You'll disagree with me, but if I'm right, does that assuage your distaste somewhat?
You'll need to spend at least a FRP to get off of Bertans so we'd just be kicking that flexibility can down the road further. I don't think anyone is appreciating how terrible his contract was when he was an elite shooter.