Mavs 127, Thunder 106

[mavsluvr]

You looked fine on TV, just saying

Hope you feel better.

It's amazing what they can do with stage makeup, lol.

[mavsluvr]

Ya, our guys aren't young anymore, we keep thinking of them as young potential guys. This is who they are, shooting % can get better, but the longer they age, the more athleticism they lose, so the shooting better get better.

I admit to finding myself falling into this way of thinking sometimes -- as if the core players are all somewhere around Luka's age. But when you stop to think about it, Maxi, THJ, and Powell are all already 29, and DFS and J Rich are 27. 

If they keep working hard to improve, there are always things players can do in the offseason to acquire additional skills/work on shooting. But of course you are right that, at some point, perhaps sooner rather than later,  improvements will be offset to some degree by declining athleticism. 

I wonder what our collective tendency to think of Maxi, DFS, etc. as younger than they are reflects.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

That's why I like the idea of targeting players like Lonzo and Markkanen in free agency.    Sort of creating a "core 4" of Luka/KP/Lonzo/Markennen who are all in their early-mid 20s who have an opportunity to meld over the next 3-4 years as they grow in their physical primes.   I believe continuity is thing, but you have to preference young players who won't be on the downside of their career arc before the magic happens.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

I wonder what our collective tendency to think of Maxi, DFS, etc. as younger than they are reflects.

I think it represents the fact that they were uncommonly old when the came into the NBA as rookies.    Maxi was a 26 year old rookie.    DoDo was 23 years old after playing 4 years of college + 1 year sitting out from a transfer.

[KillerLeft]

I think it represents the fact that they were uncommonly old when the came into the NBA as rookies.    Maxi was a 26 year old rookie.    DoDo was 23 years old after playing 4 years of college + 1 year sitting out from a transfer.

Right. My comment wasn't strictly about age, though "young" probably is best used that way, so that's on me. My comment wasn't as much about age as it was about experience.

I might be crazy, and even if I'm not, one/both of Kleber/DFS might be bad examples of this, but...both of those guys seem like they didn't get the kind of opportunities when they were young that the AAU guys did (for example). 

What if those four years of college were the first opportunity DFS had at GOOD training? What kind of track through European basketball did Kleber take? One of our Euro guys, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I just have the feeling that he didn't get the same ride that a guy like Melli got. I think the Mavs brought him here raw as cookie dough. 

All I'm saying is that with those two guys, I see improvement year-to-year, with room for more. I just don't feel like they're finished products quite yet.

[mavsluvr]

Round of applause for Carlisle. He found 16 minutes for one rookie, against a team full of rookies, 2nd year players, two way contracts, G-Leaguers and 10 day contracts, who probably had less than 50 NBA games experience combined before this season.Great coach, great victory. The BS is strong in this recap.

Coach Boucek talked a little bit about the rookie situation last night. She said the rooks have been the players most negatively affected by the season's highly compressed schedule. With little or no practice time, they have not had a lot of opportunity to improve enough to bring their games up to snuff. She did speak highly of Josh Green, and thought it was not out of the question that he might get a defensive assignment before the season is over. 

We all like to see the newbies on the floor, if only to check out how they are coming along. Unfortunately, it has seemed to me that, whenever they do get some minutes, they mostly have made a a case for why they're not playing more. 

I know some will disagree with this, but I am not a fan of the idea that it's smart to throw young players out there for a few minutes a game on a sink-or-swim basis. When they go out there and screw up (and, tbh, that's likely at this point), I think it can lead to an important loss of confidence and lowered morale for the player, and really doesn't do much, if anything, to move the needle on their improvement scale. So, I'm not as infuriated by the lack of rookie time as some, although I agree that the circumstances of the season are disappointing in ways far beyond basketball. 

Having said all that, I thought Green showed out well in this performance. Maybe we'll see more of him, although if Melli continues to play this well, he could be expected to slot in ahead of JG, at least for now.

[KillerLeft]

We all like to see the newbies on the floor, if only to check out how they are coming along. Unfortunately, it has seemed to me that, whenever they do get some minutes, they mostly have made a a case for why they're not playing more. 

I know some will disagree with this, but I am not a fan of the idea that it's smart to throw young players out there for a few minutes a game on a sink-or-swim basis. When they go out there and screw up (and, tbh, that's likely at this point), I think it can lead to an important loss of confidence and lowered morale for the player, and really doesn't do much, if anything, to move the needle on their improvement scale. So, I'm not as infuriated by the lack of rookie time as some, although I agree that the circumstances of the season are disappointing in ways far beyond basketball. 

Having said all that, I thought Green showed out well in this performance. Maybe we'll see more of him, although if Melli continues to play this well, he could be expected to slot in ahead of JG, at least for now.

[StepBackJay]

Nico and Josh Green play different positions. Nico could be stealing some of Powell's minutes.

[Chicagojk]

Let me add, Poku is a wild ride.   He is still a baby though.  In my limited viewing of him, I think the guys who were high on him prior to the draft were right.  Will he turn into a top notch player?  Time will tell, he needs a lot of work.  But his skill set for a 7 plus footer is unique.   OKC being able to spoon feed him minutes is working.  He appears not to be a guy who has lasting impacts after a bad game/games.   It will be interesting to see what type of player he is in 3 years.   At the beginning of the year, I thought there was equal chance of him succeeding/failing.   Now I am in the camp of believing he will succeed.  At what level....time will tell.  


That OKC team is a little mirage though.  The coaching job there has been fantastic.   They have guys producing there this year who I think most teams wouldn't have put on their roster to begin the year.   Guys playing big minutes for them.    I am not sure what to make of their guys who have been playing well.

[mavsluvr]

Nico and Josh Green play different positions. Nico could be stealing some of Powell's minutes.

Yes, I could have been more clear with my comment. Wasn't suggesting that one is behind the other on the depth chart. 

What I meant to convey had to do with the fact that, when Carlisle is constructing lineups, he frequently doesn't do like-for-like positional substitutions. Like, if a big goes out, he may bring in a small, and vice versa. And on the theory that he mostly plays the 8-9 players he considers best for the matchup, Melli may make the cut ahead of Green. 

Of course, I am speculating at this early point, and maybe they won't compete for minutes, after all.

[fifteenth]

Round of applause for Carlisle. He found 16 minutes for one rookie, against a team full of rookies, 2nd year players, two way contracts, G-Leaguers and 10 day contracts, who probably had less than 50 NBA games experience combined before this season.Great coach, great victory. The BS is strong in this recap.

M21 I figured it out. You're watching the wrong league! You need to get the G-League league pass and stick with that. 

[embellisher]

I know it's just one game, but if that's the Melli we're going to get on a regular basis, that's a win. JJ just becomes gravy if Melli is for real. He seems like a RC player. Energetic, decent handles, plays smart.

[ItsGoTime]

He seems like a RC player. Energetic, decent handles, plays smart.

Entering the league late. Just to add to the list.

[mavsluvr]

I really liked the first look of Melli last night.  Time will tell if he is an every game rotation player or a spot duty guy.  But the Mavs need help at the PF spot and what Melli provided last night is exactly what they need as a guy off the bench.

He looked really comfortable out there.  He set good screens.  He moved the ball well.  He was active on the boards.  He looked to play good team defense in my quick glance.   Just looked to be a smart IQ player. He provides something our other bigs can't really do.  We will see if that translates into a every game role, but last night was definitely a good start.

I was really impressed with the way Melli seemed to fit in so well and looked like he knew what to do in his FIRST game as a Mav. Even really good players usually need some time for a chemistry adjustment. A breath of fresh air!

Mason Ginsberg of Bourbon Street Shots made a few observations about Melli and the trade in Sidney Myers' podcast. Said he was brought there to be a stretch four. Was better than expected defensively, and played an effective role in lighting his teammates' defensive fire off the bench. Cannot switch onto a guard in the PNR very well, but has some definite defensive strengths. 

Per Mason, his undoing in NO was his shooting; he never developed a consistent three-point shot, and at the end, was unsustainably bad, despite getting pretty good looks due to Zion's gravity. Ginsberg said he would not be surprised to see some sort of major regression to the mean, with him "lighting up the nets" in Dallas. 

Carlisle said that his real question about Melli was whether he was going to be able to play both the 4 and 5 positions, and that he was pleased to see Melli play the 4 very effectively in OKC. 

With all the caveats about its being only one game against a tanking team, etc., the guy looked ready to play, which would be an unexpected delight, if it holds up.

[Chicagojk]

I was really impressed with the way Melli seemed to fit in so well and looked like he knew what to do in his FIRST game as a Mav. Even really good players usually need some time for a chemistry adjustment. A breath of fresh air!

Mason Ginsberg of Bourbon Street Shots made a few observations about Melli and the trade in Sidney Myers' podcast. Said he was brought there to be a stretch four. Was better than expected defensively, and played an effective role in lighting his teammates' defensive fire off the bench. Cannot switch onto a guard in the PNR very well, but has some definite defensive strengths. 

Per Mason, his undoing in NO was his shooting; he never developed a consistent three-point shot, and at the end, was unsustainably bad, despite getting pretty good looks due to Zion's gravity. Ginsberg said he would not be surprised to see some sort of major regression to the mean, with him "lighting up the nets" in Dallas. 

Carlisle said that his real question about Melli was whether he was going to be able to play both the 4 and 5 positions, and that he was pleased to see Melli play the 4 very effectively in OKC. 

With all the caveats about its being only one game against a tanking team, etc., the guy looked ready to play, which would be an unexpected delight, if it holds up.

Good added info.  Thanks

I think one of the reasons I had interest in a diminished Blake Griffin is his passing ability.  We have no big man on our roster who you can throw the ball to at the elbow and run cuts off of or run off the ball offense with.   Last year, KP made small strides in his passing and my hope he we would continue to try to improve this, but we have not see much this season.   Right now, we pass it to one of our big man and it is either and hand off or the rotate the ball to the other side.   

We have only seen Melli for 11 minutes and maybe this is not something he can do, but for at least one game he looked comfortable doing this a couple of possessions.    It is something I thought was desperately needed to not be so dependent on Luka creating most of our offense.    Best case with Melli this addition would be limited but it could be something different.   

I also agree with another poster that Maxi is best at 25 minutes.   I think you want to keep his legs fresh and protect against burnout.    Any minutes you can save where DFS is not getting the majority of the PF minutes is a positive for me.   Nothing against DFS either, but I want a little bigger player getting most of those backup minutes.

[mavsluvr]

I think one of the reasons I had interest in a diminished Blake Griffin is his passing ability.  We have no big man on our roster who you can throw the ball to at the elbow and run cuts off of or run off the ball offense with.   Last year, KP made small strides in his passing and my hope he we would continue to try to improve this, but we have not see much this season.   Right now, we pass it to one of our big man and it is either and hand off or the rotate the ball to the other side.   

We have only seen Melli for 11 minutes and maybe this is not something he can do, but for at least one game he looked comfortable doing this a couple of possessions.    It is something I thought was desperately needed to not be so dependent on Luka creating most of our offense.    Best case with Melli this addition would be limited but it could be something different.   

It seems like I remember Melli making a pass that resulted in a teammate getting a shot, but I haven't gone back and double-checked. Agree that if he is a good passer, he would add a new dimension, rather than just being a more limited version of the players ahead of him. The winds seem favorable!

[mavsluvr]

Also another chance to apologize to THJ - he's just been a perfect 6th man for us. JRich on the other hand has been a huge disappintment and I am ashamed to admit I called him our third best player early in the season. I even think kamm is spot on by saying he gives you the impression of playing good defense by flailing his arms... I watched him closely the last couple of games and I don't see anything special on D. His O is average at best - nice midrange game but his shooting motion with that weird side rotation is just too messed up to let the 3 fall in a consistent basis IMHO.

No call to be ashamed, meister. There have been some games where Josh really was the third best Mav on the floor. Not many, but some, and he did look better early. It's partly that Tim has come on in pretty amazing fashion. Yesterday, Followill presented in his pod some statistics comparing Tim to other sixth men around the league, and the stats are very impressive, in addition to the eye test.

[HAguiar95]

Also another chance to apologize to THJ - he's just been a perfect 6th man for us. JRich on the other hand has been a huge disappintment and I am ashamed to admit I called him our third best player early in the season. I even think kamm is spot on by saying he gives you the impression of playing good defense by flailing his arms... I watched him closely the last couple of games and I don't see anything special on D. His O is average at best - nice midrange game but his shooting motion with that weird side rotation is just too messed up to let the 3 fall in a consistent basis IMHO.

I'm actually on the other side on this one. THJ is slowly turning into Lou Williams. Good microwave off the bench (debatable), but a huge liability on defense. The thing about THJ is his consistency. Feels like everytime he has a good game offensively, it's against bad teams or in losses against good teams. Can't remember the last time he played good against a top team or in the clutch (not to mention he was our least reliable player in that LAC series).

[dirkfansince1998]

I'm actually on the other side on this one. THJ is slowly turning into Lou Williams. Good microwave off the bench (debatable), but a huge liability on defense. The thing about THJ is his consistency. Feels like everytime he has a good game offensively, it's against bad teams or in losses against good teams. Can't remember the last time he played good against a top team or in the clutch (not to mention he was our least reliable player in that LAC series).

Compared to other high volume 3-point shooters consistency isn´t a problem and even on off nights he usually scores at least 10-15pts on "okay" (>50% TS) effiency.
He is shooting 39.7% on 7.6 3PA. Only 8 players in the entire league average 39% + from 3 on 7+ attempts. Curry, Mitchell, Lavine, George, Rozier, Beasley, Robinson and THJ.
His last bad game was against Denver (nearly 3 weeks ago). In the last 8 games he scored 10+ points on 50%+ TS. Including 20+ pts games against the Blazers, Wolves and Clippers. And a 30 point game against NO.

At this point it feels like some people are just trying to find another scapegoat. Cannot blame Luka. KP is slowly improving. We all love DFS, Maxi and Brunson. Richardson is the shinny new toy. That leaves THJ.

[KillerLeft]

@"dirkfansince1998" don't show off too much. President Biden might give you my job.