TRADE: Delon Wright to SAC | Cory Joseph + two 2nds to DET

[cow]

Spending two 2nd round picks on Wright isn't upsetting.  Giving him a decent contract to dump him for nothing after one season is worrisome.  Detroit turning Wright into two 2nd round picks less than half a season later tells you all you need to know of why the Mavs cupboard is so bare related to tradable assets.

[ItsGoTime]

The pushback on the idea that this is a blemish isn't "trying hard to defend", it's just pushback on the idea that this is a blemish.

I'd say that it takes Eeyore level pessimism and some "trying hard" to make the case that this is some kind of blemish.

I love it on this board how you can say a very general statement of, RC isn’t perfect, and RC has his warts with little to no kickback. Far be it for anyone to attempt to get any more specific than that. You have to be Eeyore and Debbie downer to do that to RC...

[fifteenth]

Detroit turning Wright into two 2nd round picks less than half a season later tells you all you need to know of why the Mavs cupboard is so bare related to tradable assets.

^this is the part I disagree with

You guys want make Delon into some kind respresentive story of how bad the Mavs are at team building. The cupboard isn't bare. And if I used Luka, Brunson, JRich, THJ, DFS, Maxi, KP if he has another star level playoff run, DP if he returns to form and makes himself an asset again, and used them to say something like "that tells you all you need to know about why the Mavs have the best roster in the league", you'd rightfully push back. 

I'm not saying the Mavs are the best at asset management. I will say that they are buiding a good team, and that you can't do that by being the worst at asset management. And I will say that these discussions would be more helpful if you guys didn't say things like "this tells you all you need to know", because obviously reality isn't that simple. 

If the Mavs sucked, and all their moves were bad, then you could pick any one of their moves, use it as representative of their systemic suckiness, and get no pushback. But that's not the reality we have here.

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I love it on this board how you can say a very general statement of, RC isn’t perfect, and RC has his warts with little to no kickback. Far be it for anyone to attempt to get any more specific than that. You have to be Eeyore and Debbie downer to do that to RC...

sorry, pal, this is one of those instances where I don't understand what you're arguing

[fifteenth]

I love it on this board how you can say a very general statement of, RC isn’t perfect, and RC has his warts with little to no kickback. Far be it for anyone to attempt to get any more specific than that. You have to be Eeyore and Debbie downer to do that to RC...

OK, maybe I get it. My sarcasm detector isn't always great. I'm a fan or Rick, right? Want me to be balanced and give him some criticism?

Here ya go...

1. Rick is a jerk sometimes. He's unnecessarily grumpy towards media memebers sometimes, and I wonder if that grumpiness gets aimed at players and hurts his relationship with some players. I've also heard him drop some amazing wisdom about how to respect and relate to people. So, there's that. 

2. It appears that Rick employs a system that many players just can't get, or figure out how to fit into. We've seen examples of players that are lost in Rick's system who other coaches get more out of. 

I can criticize the guy that I'm a fan of.

If I push back on other criticism I see it's not because I'm always positive or because I'm a Rick homer, or that I think all criticsm is Eeyore like. It's because I don't buy the arguments.

[SleepingHero]

I love how out of all the blockbuster trades today, THIS is the one with over 3 pages of replies.

[fifteenth]

I love how out of all the blockbuster trades today, THIS is the one with over 3 pages of replies.

my fault

for some reason I wanted to get behind at work just so that I could argue with the "blemish" idea

[cow]

^this is the part I disagree with

You guys want make Delon into some kind respresentive story of how bad the Mavs are at team building. The cupboard isn't bare. And if I used Luka, Brunson, JRich, THJ, DFS, Maxi, KP if he has another star level playoff run, DP if he returns to form and makes himself an asset again, and used them to say something like "that tells you all you need to know about why the Mavs have the best roster in the league", you'd rightfully push back. 

I'm not saying the Mavs are the best at asset management. I will say that they are buiding a good team, and that you can't do that by being the worst at asset management. And I will say that these discussions would be more helpful if you guys didn't say things like "this tells you all you need to know", because obviously reality isn't that simple. 

If the Mavs sucked, and all their moves were bad, then you could pick any one of their moves, use it as representative of their systemic suckiness, and get no pushback. But that's not the reality we have here.

We are one of the worst teams in the league when it comes to drafting (https://towardsdatascience.com/measuring...f67cfb7718) and free agent acquisition.  It's why a massive chunk of our roster shouldn't be in the league are fringe at best:  Boban, WCS, Burke, Iwundu, Powell, Johnson.  

Delon is a great example of why we are bad at team building.  We couldn't attract the free agents we desired (Kemba wouldn't give us a conversation, PatBev stayed home and Danny Green strung us along).  We panicked, gave up picks and overpaid Delon.  He and coach couldn't get along (another issue) so we traded him for nothing.  Detroit flips him half a season later for two second round picks.  Just because we suck at drafting doesn't mean picks aren't valuable.  

You can write Delon off as minor issue, but all these minor issues add up in the long run and hinder you from improving your team.  We also aren't going to Suck because Luka is that good and he'll cover up a lot of decencies, that is until he gets sick of not being on a contender and asks out.

[hakeemfaan]

^this is the part I disagree with

You guys want make Delon into some kind respresentive story of how bad the Mavs are at team building. The cupboard isn't bare. And if I used Luka, Brunson, JRich, THJ, DFS, Maxi, KP if he has another star level playoff run, DP if he returns to form and makes himself an asset again, and used them to say something like "that tells you all you need to know about why the Mavs have the best roster in the league", you'd rightfully push back. 

I'm not saying the Mavs are the best at asset management. I will say that they are buiding a good team, and that you can't do that by being the worst at asset management. And I will say that these discussions would be more helpful if you guys didn't say things like "this tells you all you need to know", because obviously reality isn't that simple. 

If the Mavs sucked, and all their moves were bad, then you could pick any one of their moves, use it as representative of their systemic suckiness, and get no pushback. But that's not the reality we have here.

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sorry, pal, this is one of those instances where I don't understand what you're arguing

I don’t see a contradiction in saying that they have been bad at managing picks but have also developed some nice rotational talent. Asset management is a combination of managing picks and developing talent. 

The problem with giving up picks readily is that a) You shortchange yourself on an easy avenue to get cheap talent. Jalen for eg was a 2nd round pick and while there are no guarantees in the draft, you still have to look at it more seriously than the Mavs have done. b) Teams do value that as a trade chip and not having enough of those do hurt.

[ItsGoTime]

We've seen examples of players that are lost in Rick's system who other coaches get more out of.

In what way was this any different than what I said originally?

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I didn't weigh in on whether or not this is a damning thing, or what level of damning other than "blemish". Didn't think that word meant so much, but ok. I defend what I say to those that take my meaning too far and then I'm Eeyore for it....

[fifteenth]

We are one of the worst teams in the league when it comes to drafting (https://towardsdatascience.com/measuring...f67cfb7718) and free agent acquisition.  It's why a massive chunk of our roster shouldn't be in the league are fringe at best:  Boban, WCS, Burke, Iwundu, Powell, Johnson.  

Delon is a great example of why we are bad at team building.  We couldn't attract the free agents we desired (Kemba wouldn't give us a conversation, PatBev stayed home and Danny Green strung us along).  We panicked, gave up picks and overpaid Delon.  He and coach couldn't get along (another issue) so we traded him for nothing.  Detroit flips him half a season later for two second round picks.  Just because we suck at drafting doesn't mean picks aren't valuable.  

You can write Delon off as minor issue, but all these minor issues add up in the long run and hinder you from improving your team.  We also aren't going to Suck because Luka is that good and he'll cover up a lot of decencies, that is until he gets sick of not being on a contender and asks out.

LOL, I've had that article thrown at me twice in an hour. Glad you guys could find someone to cite to support your argements. 

I still have issues with your argments, even though you can find an article to cite. 

1. Yes, we missed out on Kemba, PatBev and Danny Green. Point you, maybe. I mean, teams miss. All of them. We got beat out by Boston, LA and LA. That won't always be the case as Luka continues to grow.

2. You call the Delon signing a "panick". That's an opinion, not really an argument. I call the Delon signing an attempt to put a versitile guard who can defend next to Luka. The attempt failed, but I'd call it a good try. Looks like their second shot at a versatile guard next to Luka is going a lot better. We'll see. I'm giong to say, not "point you".

3. I don't see evidence that Delon and Coach couldn't get along. I see evidence that Delon couldn't do what coach asked him to do. There's a big difference. Not "point you". 

4. We traded him to get rid of the salary of a guy that didn't work out. I didn't give you a point for item #2, but if I had, I wouldn't be able to give you a point for this. That would be double dipping. I mean, once they realized that they failed on the Delon swing, then getting off his money and adding a player they thought could be useful isn't a seperate failure. 

5. Detroit flipped him by giving him playing time. Delon earning playing time for another team, especially a bad one, isn't necessarily an indictment of the Mavs failure with Delon. 

6. The back end of the Mavs roster is the back end of a roster. It's been better before. It'll probably be better again. But calling all of those guys "fringe" is overstating your case. 

So, no, I still don't buy it. Delon is not an example of some systemic failure by the Mavs.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Josh Green is a better example of Mavs front office failure

[fifteenth]

In what way was this any different than what I said originally?

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I didn't weigh in on whether or not this is a damning thing, or what level of damning other than "blemish". Didn't think that word meant so much, but ok. I defend what I say to those that take my meaning too far and then I'm Eeyore for it....

I responded to this...

All this lipstick on a pig talk. It's yet another blemish that shouldn't be defended as hard as it is being defended.

I don't think the Detroit trade is a blemish on the Mavs. 

Not sure how that compares to what I said about Rick. 

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Josh Green is a better example of Mavs front office failure

maybe...we'll see in a couple of years, or next  year

[ItsGoTime]

I responded to this...

All this lipstick on a pig talk. It's yet another blemish that shouldn't be defended as hard as it is being defended.

I don't think the Detroit trade is a blemish on the Mavs. 

Not sure how that compares to what I said about Rick. 

So you took the defending of my original statement out of context and call me Eeyore for it without trying to understand what I was saying. Got it.

[fifteenth]

So you took the defending of my original statement out of context and call me Eeyore for it without trying to understand what I was saying. Got it.

Oh, ok. I get it. My bad. I wasn't trying to call you Eeyore. I wasnt' clear. I responsed to your post but, in my mind, was responding to the whole idea (from cow, you, others), that the Detroit trade is some kind of respresentative blemish, in some long line of blemishes. 

I think that THE IDEA that Delon is a blemish repsresentative of how much the Mavs suck at assett management is Eeyore level pessimism. 

I didn't mean to call you Eeyore. You're not. My bad. Please forgive me.

[cow]

LOL, I've had that article thrown at me twice in an hour. Glad you guys could find someone to cite to support your argements. 

I still have issues with your argments, even though you can find an article to cite. 

1. Yes, we missed out on Kemba, PatBev and Danny Green. Point you, maybe. I mean, teams miss. All of them. We got beat out by Boston, LA and LA. That won't always be the case as Luka continues to grow.

2. You call the Delon signing a "panick". That's an opinion, not really an argument. I call the Delon signing an attempt to put a versitile guard who can defend next to Luka. The attempt failed, but I'd call it a good try. Looks like their second shot at a versatile guard next to Luka is going a lot better. We'll see. I'm giong to say, not "point you".

3. I don't see evidence that Delon and Coach couldn't get along. I see evidence that Delon couldn't do what coach asked him to do. There's a big difference. Not "point you". 

4. We traded him to get rid of the salary of a guy that didn't work out. I didn't give you a point for item #2, but if I had, I wouldn't be able to give you a point for this. That would be double dipping. I mean, once they realized that they failed on the Delon swing, then getting off his money and adding a player they thought could be useful isn't a seperate failure. 

5. Detroit flipped him by giving him playing time. Delon earning playing time for another team, especially a bad one, isn't necessarily an indictment of the Mavs failure with Delon. 

6. The back end of the Mavs roster is the back end of a roster. It's been better before. It'll probably be better again. But calling all of those guys "fringe" is overstating your case. 

So, no, I still don't buy it. Delon is not an example of some systemic failure by the Mavs.

LOL I was the first one to post that article weeks ago but nice try lumping me in with "you guys" as if this is something new. LOL  I don't really care what you buy or don't buy.  LOL  Of course this is all our opinions.  LOL We are all on the outside look in.  LOL You are entitled to your opinion and I'm fine if you disagree.   LOL Did I LOL enough?

[fifteenth]

LOL I was the first one to post that article weeks ago but nice try lumping me in with "you guys" as if this is something new. LOL  I don't really care what you buy or don't buy.  LOL  Of course this is all our opinions.  LOL We are all on the outside look in.  LOL You are entitled to your opinion and I'm fine if you disagree.   LOL Did I LOL enough?

No way, I'm way more funny than that, cowcow. 

Sorry I didn't check with forum past to find out that you had "original poster" rights to that article that got thown at me twice in half an hour.

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I'm gonna save that article so that I can post it in response to anyone in the future who dares to make an argument that the Mavs are building a good team.

[fifteenth]

Oh, ok. I get it. My bad. I wasn't trying to call you Eeyore. I wasnt' clear. I responsed to your post but, in my mind, was responding to the whole idea (from cow, you, others), that the Detroit trade is some kind of respresentative blemish, in some long line of blemishes. 

I think that THE IDEA that Delon is a blemish repsresentative of how much the Mavs suck at assett management is Eeyore level pessimism. 

I didn't mean to call you Eeyore. You're not. My bad. Please forgive me.

IGT!!!! Did you see this!!! I'm sorry pal!!!!!! Please forgive me!!!!!!!!

Seems like you and I have to have one of these little misunderstandings periodically. I'm gonna say it's because good relationships are forged by forgiveness. :-D

[cow]

No way, I'm way more funny than that, cowcow. 

Sorry I didn't check with forum past to find out that you had "original poster" rights to that article that got thown at me twice in half an hour.

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I'm gonna save that article so that I can post it in response to anyone in the future who dares to make an argument that the Mavs are building a good team.

Cool.

I'm not looking for credit.  I was actually curious about all the ins and outs of the Mavericks recent draft history/transactions and stumbled across the article.  I thought it was interesting and shared it weeks ago.  It confirms what a lot of us suspected (confirmation bias?).  You are welcome to agree with it, disagree with it or ignore it.  I don't really care what you do with it, especially since you aren't interested in a conversation.

[fifteenth]

especially since you aren't interested in a conversation.

I just spent several hours of work time engaging in conversation

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well, i offended everyone except embellisher 

at least embellisher likes me

[fifteenth]

I like you cow

even if I don't like your "blemish respresentative of systemic failure" argument

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If you guys stay offended, that's ok, but could you give me a run down on how hard I can argue against points I don't like, that way I can stay friends with more than just embellisher

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oh, dog gone

just offended embellisher