Mavericks 104, Jazz 116

[omahen]

DFS is shooting second most wide open three pointers per game in the league with 4,7. These are basically all the shots he is taking. His percentage is 31 % from this shots. His replacements (Green, Iwundu, Johnson) were even worse. KP is shooting 3,3 wide open three pointers per game. His percentage is 26 %. This is an issue. Not just the bad percentage but the defense focusing on other players. This has to improve and things will become much easier. 

Mavs were individually playing very similar last year. Luka is approximately the same, KP is similar as first three months of last season (not very good mostly), Brunson is a bit better, Kleber is similar, Burke is a decent replacement for Curry. DFS (and his replacements) is considerably less accurate. Still, I think we need to be patient and allow this group to have 10 games together. Than judge.

[KillerLeft]

DFS is shooting second most wide open three pointers per game in the league with 4,7. These are basically all the shots he is taking. His percentage is 31 % from this shots. His replacements (Green, Iwundu, Johnson) were even worse. KP is shooting 3,3 wide open three pointers per game. His percentage is 26 %. This is an issue. Not just the bad percentage but the defense focusing on other players. This has to improve and things will become much easier.

Totally agree, and the good news is that I think both of those players will improve their percentages. DFS was missing a bunch of shots short last night (conditioning) and KP's problems seem mental (to me), but there's no way he plays this badly for very long.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

The biggest issue with RC over the last year has been the inability to find a way for his two stars to play off one another. Relegating Kp to a 7’3” outside shooter is not the answer. My feeling even last year has been that we need to run a lot of high post action through KP. Is his passing the best? No. Neither was Dirk’s but he improved as the team put him in that position and asked him to adapt. 

KP does not have that skillset from what I've seen.  You would see a lot of ugly possessions IMO.

He's basically a "bad shot" maker so when his shot isn't going in, it looks ugly.

[KillerLeft]

KP does not have that skillset from what I've seen.  You would see a lot of ugly possessions IMO.

He's basically a "bad shot" maker so when his shot isn't going in, it looks ugly.

Yes, my feeling is that lately, they're trying to feed him in the high post CONSTANTLY. I have NOT watched those efforts and thought "yeah, give us more of THAT." They have been largely TERRIBLE possessions. 

When his shot falls, they're great, because nobody can really contest his shot, due to length. BUT, he doesn't seem to have anything from that starting position other than a fast turnaround brick-lay or a slow turnaround followed by a carefully considered face-up brick-lay. 

He can't floor the ball from there, as he'll NEVER be defended by the center in that situation, I don't think. And, it's not like he's great at getting the ball to cutters from that spot, either. 

I don't think Carlisle was trying to rail against the post-up last season, I think he was politely trying to tell us that PORZINGIS is a bad option to post up (high or low) without calling him out publicly.

[RDB]

Yes, my feeling is that lately, they're trying to feed him in the high post CONSTANTLY. I have NOT watched those efforts and thought "yeah, give us more of THAT." They have been largely TERRIBLE possessions. 

When his shot falls, they're great, because nobody can really contest his shot, due to length. BUT, he doesn't seem to have anything from that starting position other than a fast turnaround brick-lay or a slow turnaround followed by a carefully considered face-up brick-lay. 

He can't floor the ball from there, as he'll NEVER be defended by the center in that situation, I don't think. And, it's not like he's great at getting the ball to cutters from that spot, either. 

I don't think Carlisle was trying to rail against the post-up last season, I think he was politely trying to tell us that PORZINGIS is a bad option to post up (high or low) without calling him out publicly.

I agree...I think opponents have made some adjustments and we are still looking for answers.  This is an area where I think a lack of gym time does hurt.  Luka has adjusted somewhat (more mid range) but I still don't think we have an answer for when KP, THJ, or to a lesser extent DFS are cold, making Luka an even bigger defensive focus.  I also think this is an area where the loss of Curry is most evident as we lost that additional floor spacer to compensate for off nights.

[mavsluvr]

Yes, my feeling is that lately, they're trying to feed him in the high post CONSTANTLY. I have NOT watched those efforts and thought "yeah, give us more of THAT." They have been largely TERRIBLE possessions. 

When his shot falls, they're great, because nobody can really contest his shot, due to length. BUT, he doesn't seem to have anything from that starting position other than a fast turnaround brick-lay or a slow turnaround followed by a carefully considered face-up brick-lay. 

He can't floor the ball from there, as he'll NEVER be defended by the center in that situation, I don't think. And, it's not like he's great at getting the ball to cutters from that spot, either. 

I don't think Carlisle was trying to rail against the post-up last season, I think he was politely trying to tell us that PORZINGIS is a bad option to post up (high or low) without calling him out publicly.

I have observed some of the same things, and am still not very clear on what the story is. 

Agree that they have taken to posting KP up, and Carlisle has been inconsistent in his comments. Post-ups actually have fallen out of favor to an extent with the analytics folks. Last year, Carlisle was singing that tune. He still is this season, but now is also saying that post-ups are okay if Luka calls them, and Luka seems to be calling them a lot for KP, who I will venture to say is not that good from those spots. 

I haven't decided yet what the right solution is here. One would be to go back to minimizing the use of  KP in that way. Or, maybe they have decided that KP needs to have that skill in order to be effective, and they are going to keep running it until he gets it. Sort of like when Jae Crowder missed 29 consecutive threes, but had to keep chucking. 

I miss the days of prime Dirk, when those one-legged fadeaways were close to automatic.

[SleepingHero]

No response from moderators on this site Account was locked out for a long time and no easy way to reset. Had to tweak the username. 

Odd. Never received any message from your old account. Sorry about that. Make sure to sign up for Discord so you can reach us there as well. 

In any case welcome back.

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Back to the Mavs.

One has to wonder at what point do the Mavs make a drastic change. 25% of the season has gone by and the Mavs look somehow worse than when they started. 

Sure a lot of reasons for that, but what if when we get Maxi back the problems still aren't fixed? 

I have an unshaking feeling that Carlisle is losing the lockerroom and our 2 most important players aren't buying in. 

Mavs are on a clock to make a big change imo, before it's too late.

[SleepingHero]

DFS is shooting second most wide open three pointers per game in the league with 4,7. These are basically all the shots he is taking. His percentage is 31 % from this shots. His replacements (Green, Iwundu, Johnson) were even worse. KP is shooting 3,3 wide open three pointers per game. His percentage is 26 %. This is an issue.

The problem is, how do the Mavs fix that? It's not like the shots can get any easier. Its actually insane how poorly everyone is shooting from 3. It's getting to the point where I feel like the offense is so supremely broken that there isn't any fix the Mavs can make this year.

[RDB]

I have observed some of the same things, and am still not very clear on what the story is. 

Agree that they have taken to posting KP up, and Carlisle has been inconsistent in his comments. Post-ups actually have fallen out of favor to an extent with the analytics folks. Last year, Carlisle was singing that tune. He still is this season, but now is also saying that post-ups are okay if Luka calls them, and Luka seems to be calling them a lot for KP, who I will venture to say is not that good from those spots. 

I haven't decided yet what the right solution is here. One would be to go back to minimizing the use of  KP in that way. Or, maybe they have decided that KP needs to have that skill in order to be effective, and they are going to keep running it until he gets it. Sort of like when Jae Crowder missed 29 consecutive threes, but had to keep chucking. 

I miss the days of prime Dirk, when those one-legged fadeaways were close to automatic.

Here is one possible explanation.  If KP is going to get floor time but he can't make his 3's, what do you do with him.  Letting him continue shooting 3's is the definition of insanity, especially considering he has no previous memory and will continue jacking shots.  I think the post-ups are Carlisle's attempt to adjust and keep KP engaged without allowing him to destroy the flow.

[Jason Terry]

At the Rick Carlisle fan club meetings i sit on row 1 seat A........he has to feel some heat under his britches at this point. We aren’t there yet, but he will likely need to switch from “good cop” to “bad cop” if this continues. These struggles in part have stemmed from last night being the first time most of the team was together. The real issue though I believe has nothing to do with anyone besides Luka and KP.

Luka and KP two man game has produced very little. This should be our bread and butter that gives opposition fits and generates easy opportunities. They don’t even look like they’re trying to play off each other.

KP: body language looks terrible like he doesn’t want to be out there. Little effort rebounding on a team that will go nowhere if he can’t rebound at a high clip. Last season he looked much better as a rim protector, while he currently has no focus or intensity on that end. For 3 quarters he took preseason looking shots every time the ball got to him. Yes, some of this is rust and getting back into shape. I do not believe however that explains everything. Last night was his last “practice”. He has the physical tools to succeed. Now is the time for him to kick it up another level. If this all works out then next summer i want a humble KP going to Dirk begging him to show him how to play offensive basketball

Luka: only plays defense on nights he feels like it. Still playing hero ball shooting far too many 3’s for a poor 3pt shooter. He is the leader of this team and your team takes on the identity of your leader. He is a hot head at times and gets frustrated. This causes dumb decisions, selfishness and missed shots. This trickles down to the 17th man. The antithesis of Dirk’s leadership

Overall, I do believe we have the talent and will right the ship. The signs really do point to there being much more going on in the locker room behind the scenes than what we see. Based on what we’ve seen I think it’s Luka’s off the court leadership that is our top problem. This should scare everyone because unless we can work through these issues it likely means there will be a new coach who is less like RC and more authoritarian. Mess it up and Luka may just leave

[mavsluvr]

Overall, I do believe we have the talent and will right the ship. The signs really do point to there being much more going on in the locker room behind the scenes than what we see.

In this regard, I thought a couple of the coaching comments pre-game were a little odd. 


Both Carlisle and Boucek were asked why they thought it was particularly important to get the three COVID guys back. Boucek said it was because they are three of the team's most unselfish players. Carlisle said it was because of their defense and their unselfishness. 

It surprised me. I wouldn't have expected that one of the biggest benefits of getting these three guys back was to get a few unselfish players on the court. I don't know what's going on.

[burekemde]

In this regard, I thought a couple of the coaching comments pre-game were a little odd. 


Both Carlisle and Boucek were asked why they thought it was particularly important to get the three COVID guys back. Boucek said it was because they are three of the team's most unselfish players. Carlisle said it was because of their defense and their unselfishness. 

It surprised me. I wouldn't have expected that one of the biggest benefits of getting these three guys back was to get a few unselfish players on the court. I don't know what's going on.

Well noticed ML. I think this definitely has to do again with the KP playing so selfish in the last game especially the 1st quarter of last game. It doesnt help that both Luka and Timmy have flashes every game where they take that contested 3. In general I feel both Luka and THJ are very liked by teammates, but I dont get that impression with KP. Since his return he has played extremely selfish, and the team chemistry was amazing before his return. Everyone worked so hard on defense, and the team worked as one piece.

I think KP, due to not being in shape, is trying to get stats by rushing and pushing things, instead of letting that slowly come to him as he is coming in shape.

[dirkfansince1998]

I was really annoyed with both KP and Luka in the 4th quarter. Stat padding in a blowout loss. KP had 9 FGA. Don´t think a single one of them was a good shot but he made 4. Same for Luka. He only played a few minutes but tried to force it because he only needed 3 more pts to reach 30.
Maybe it is time to keep both of them on a shorter leach. Less 3-point volume. Less early shot clock shots. More ball movement.

[Jason Terry]

In this regard, I thought a couple of the coaching comments pre-game were a little odd. 


Both Carlisle and Boucek were asked why they thought it was particularly important to get the three COVID guys back. Boucek said it was because they are three of the team's most unselfish players. Carlisle said it was because of their defense and their unselfishness. 

It surprised me. I wouldn't have expected that one of the biggest benefits of getting these three guys back was to get a few unselfish players on the court. I don't know what's going on.

DFS and Richardson do all the little things that we need to have a successful team. Neither has played or even dribbled in weeks so last night isn’t the best example, but there were still plays they made that nobody else can. First quarter Richardson making Conley uncomfortable stands out as well as DFS hustling and collecting offensive rebounds in a game we lost that battle 11-3. These are the elements that have been missing without them. Fighting off screens and battling every play. Deflections and tip outs. Much of which is unselfish and never shows up in the box score. Neither has found an offensive groove, but the bulk of the scoring should come from Luka and KP anyways while they’re on the court

[omahen]

DFS and Richardson do all the little things that we need to have a successful team. Neither has played or even dribbled in weeks so last night isn’t the best example, but there were still plays they made that nobody else can. First quarter Richardson making Conley uncomfortable stands out as well as DFS hustling and collecting offensive rebounds in a game we lost that battle 11-3. These are the elements that have been missing without them. Fighting off screens and battling every play. Much of which is unselfish and never shows up in the box score. Neither has found an offensive groove, but the bulk of the scoring should come from Luka and KP anyways while they’re on the court

This remind of another problem. Utah has three players on court able to run PnR with Gobert (Conley, Bogdanovic and Ingles - or Mitchel as a regular starter). If I remember correctly, they were constantly attacking PnR with the player Luka or THJ were guarding.

[KillerLeft]

At the Rick Carlisle fan club meetings i sit on row 1 seat A........he has to feel some heat under his britches at this point. We aren’t there yet, but he will likely need to switch from “good cop” to “bad cop” if this continues

Not to squabble over the small stuff, but Row 1, Seat A is MY SEAT. You can sit in seat B, if you'd like. 

And yes, I totally agree.

[hakeemfaan]

Welcome back.
Luka showed the willingness to focus on distribution when his teammates are making plays. We saw it against the Raptors (blowout L) and the Pacers (win). Thing is that right now most guys struggle to make even basic plays on offense. KP simply isn´t on Dirks level on offense (even young Dirk). Despite his nickname he isn´t as quick of the dribble or even close as a shooter.
Of course he should be more than a spot up shooter but I think the better option would be more pick and roll action with him as the roll man. If he really wants to play center he needs to make basic bigman plays. Don´t think more post touches for a mediocre passer that cannot take advantage of undersized defenders are the solution.
Start with the basics and expand upon it.

To me this year Luka has clearly worked more on a midrange option which I was begging for last year.  Covid issues are real and so I am not saying everything is on the coaching staff. However KP and Luka never seem to have ever been fully playing off each other where the other team has to worry about a two headed monster.  Again I understand KP might not be a good passer but I would like for the coaching staff to work actively with him and work on putting him in situations more than just a 7’3” 3 pt shooter which IMO is not the best way to utilize him.  

A lot of the team’s problems can be solved if KP gets on track. He is not Luka. He needs much more help from the coaching staff.  At the same time I feel he is definitely a solid Robin if he gets going...someone many teams would love to have.

[mavsluvr]

To me this year Luka has clearly worked more on a midrange option which I was begging for last year.  Covid issues are real and so I am not saying everything is on the coaching staff. However KP and Luka never seem to have ever been fully playing off each other where the other team has to worry about a two headed monster.  Again I understand KP might not be a good passer but I would like for the coaching staff to work actively with him and work on putting him in situations more than just a 7’3” 3 pt shooter which IMO is not the best way to utilize him.  

A lot of the team’s problems can be solved if KP gets on track. He is not Luka. He needs much more help from the coaching staff.  At the same time I feel he is definitely a solid Robin if he gets going...someone many teams would love to have.

Hakeem! What a pleasure to see you back!

Yes, I have thought about your urging last season that Luka work on developing a midrange shot, and indeed he did just that in the brief offseason. You called it!

I don't know what the key is to unlocking the synergy in the Luka-KP tandem. Hope they can coach 'em up.

[KillerLeft]

I would like for the coaching staff to work actively with him and work on putting him in situations more than just a 7’3” 3 pt shooter which IMO is not the best way to utilize him.  

I agree completely that he/they didn't show much in the way of KP being able to create offense for himself or others last season. All of his good stretches (some of which were dazzling) were almost exclusively comprised of him finishing other players' creations. I hemmed and hawed all off-season about how much of a burden it was for the 2nd max player not to have creation (in ANY way) as part of their skillset. 

Early in this season, I feel like they HAVE been trying to force-feed him the ball in that high post area that he loved so much in NY. It's just that he hasn't done much with the opportunities. Maybe he'll get into rhythm and this approach will look better soon. I sure hope so. 

I also agree with you that any kind of 2-man game between Luka/KP seems underutilized since he came here. But, I'd bet a lot of money that there's a reason for that, too, and that it has to do with something KP CAN'T do. 

All of that to say: You see a situation wherein the coaches need to fix this by helping him learn how to ply his skillset within the team's system, or adjust the system slightly to better fit his skillset. I don't disagree with that at all. BUT, I'm much more disappointed in how limited the PLAYER is, so far. I wish I had watched him more in NY before he came here, because when the trade went down I thought the Mavs were getting a superstar with tons of offensive versatility. So far, that's not what I've seen from him here. Again, I DO agree that the coaches need to help figure all of this out somehow, but that's clearly going to take more time than we might hope. 

Don't even get me started on his defense. He has been a JOKE defensively as of late. I really hope this is due to rust, rhythm, confidence in his repaired knees that will get ironed out over time...something. Anything other than "welp, this is how KP moves now." Because he moves juuuuuuust a little bit better than Boban these days, and without the benefit of the big, thick body. If he's going to be this much of a liability on defense AND not be able to create for himself or others on offense, how does a good team justify putting him on the floor, let alone paying him A MAX CONTRACT?!?

Not trying to overreact to a few games early in his season (difficult to resist), but I am WORRIED about this. These worries go all the way back to last season, for me. I have been watching him like a hawk ever since that awful game he had in the bubble against Portland, during which he acted like he got a $1,000,000 bonus every time he invited Lillard to take an easy straight line path to the basket.

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BTW, @"hakeemfaan" I haven't received any messages from you, either, but surely there's a way we can unlock your main account. GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK!

[hakeemfaan]

I agree completely that he/they didn't show much in the way of KP being able to create offense for himself or others last season. All of his good stretches (some of which were dazzling) were almost exclusively comprised of him finishing other players' creations. I hemmed and hawed all off-season about how much of a burden it was for the 2nd max player not to have creation (in ANY way) as part of their skillset. 

Early in this season, I feel like they HAVE been trying to force-feed him the ball in that high post area that he loved so much in NY. It's just that he hasn't done much with the opportunities. Maybe he'll get into rhythm and this approach will look better soon. I sure hope so. 

I also agree with you that any kind of 2-man game between Luka/KP seems underutilized since he came here. But, I'd bet a lot of money that there's a reason for that, too, and that it has to do with something KP CAN'T do. 

All of that to say: You see a situation wherein the coaches need to fix this by helping him learn how to ply his skillset within the team's system, or adjust the system slightly to better fit his skillset. I don't disagree with that at all. BUT, I'm much more disappointed in how limited the PLAYER is, so far. I wish I had watched him more in NY before he came here, because when the trade went down I thought the Mavs were getting a superstar with tons of offensive versatility. So far, that's not what I've seen from him here. Again, I DO agree that the coaches need to help figure all of this out somehow, but that's clearly going to take more time than we might hope. 

Don't even get me started on his defense. He has been a JOKE defensively as of late. I really hope this is due to rust, rhythm, confidence in his repaired knees that will get ironed out over time...something. Anything other than "welp, this is how KP moves now." Because he moves juuuuuuust a little bit better than Boban these days, and without the benefit of the big, thick body. If he's going to be this much of a liability on defense AND not be able to create for himself or others on offense, how does a good team justify putting him on the floor, let alone paying him A MAX CONTRACT?!?

Not trying to overreact to a few games early in his season (difficult to resist), but I am WORRIED about this. These worries go all the way back to last season, for me. I have been watching him like a hawk ever since that awful game he had in the bubble against Portland, during which he acted like he got a $1,000,000 bonus every time he invited Lillard to take an easy straight line path to the basket.

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BTW, @"hakeemfaan" I haven't received any messages from you, either, but surely there's a way we can unlock your main account. GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK!

Am I overrating KP?  Could be. Is he clearly a better 2nd option than say someone like Josh Howard who the coaches game planned specifically for to get going in the first halves of games?  I would like to think so but at this point KP has not given a clear indication that he is.  He seems to settle.  That is where I would like to see a change. Maybe some of it is on the coaching staff and maybe some of it is on KP. However I do believe he needs more of an help be it schemes or actively putting him in places to succeeed. Else he is a skinny tall guy with no real strength to move anyone and he just becomes an extremely tall jump shooter.  If not high post predominantly , maybe slide him along the baseline for a few plays.  I still remember that stretch last year where he looked so dominant.  I am desperately hoping that was not just a flash in the pan.