Why can't Josh Richardson be that guy?

[KillerLeft]

Josh Richardson questions:

• Does the front office reboot mean another chance for JRich in Dallas?
  
• Do Nico and Kidd decide that JRich just suffered from not fitting with Rick?
  
• Do we think he looks like he could be a player for another coach and that covid/scheme/coach were the problems last season?
  
• Is JRich set on leaving because of his experience with the team last season? If the Mavs want him, is the relationship salvageable? 
  

I do not feel like there's much of a chance Richardson's troubles were due to Carlisle, whose detractors complained because he refused to stop playing Richardson so much by the end of the season. I think Carlisle wanted the guy here and gave him every chance to succeed. My dude was given the ball with a live dribble more than anyone else but Luka...probably not as much as Brunson, either, but a lot. 

But, if Richardson opts in and isn't traded, I am sure they will subtly suggest that it was the last staff's fault.

[ItsGoTime]

I do not feel like there's much of a chance Richardson's troubles were due to Carlisle, whose detractors complained because he refused to stop playing Richardson so much by the end of the season. I think Carlisle wanted the guy here and gave him every chance to succeed. My dude was given the ball with a live dribble more than anyone else but Luka...probably not as much as Brunson, either, but a lot. 

But, if Richardson opts in and isn't traded, I am sure they will subtly suggest that it was the last staff's fault.

Ya, I think you're right about that. I still maintain that JRich could be a player that needs more time on a team to get comfortable in his role and with his teammates. This year was worse than his Phi year, so the likelihood of that being true is pretty low in my mind. My preference would be for him to opt in and us trade him to a team that sees value in reclaiming him, but with the year he had, that is highly unlikely that his trade would bring anything of value.

[Chicagojk]

I thought Richardson was sure to be gone after the season...especially with Rick here.  I still think the odds are heavily in favor of him not being back, but the chance of him being back is higher without Rick here.    Maybe his market is not high and his trade market is limited.   Then Dallas needs to make a decision if he opts in.  Do they trade him for a little better player on a longer contract or just keep him here and see if they can rehabilitate him.    That position is a little crowded though.  Especially if we assume either Hardaway is resigned or another wing is brought in.   Plus, we hope to have consistent minutes to let Green grow.   If Richardson is brought back, it sort of congests things a little.

[KillerLeft]

but the chance of him being back is higher without Rick here. 

What makes you say this? Is it because of the role change during the playoffs? 

It seemed to me like Carlisle was his biggest fan, and he put off making that obvious change longer than most people thought was reasonable, but that's speculation, I guess. 

Still, we know that as far as analytics are concerned, Richardson was one of the worst rotation players on the team pretty much all season. We know that because @"Kammrath" told us so like once a week. I think it's fair to assume that Bob V or anyone else crunching numbers for the Mavs probably reached a similar conclusion, don't you? My hunch is that Carlisle was being semi-pressured to move Richardson to a much lower rung in the rotation by the end of the season, and BTW, that turned out to be a good move, right?

[Kammrath]

We know that because @Kammrath told us so like once a DAY.

FIFY.

[fifteenth]

I do not feel like there's much of a chance Richardson's troubles were due to Carlisle, whose detractors complained because he refused to stop playing Richardson so much by the end of the season. I think Carlisle wanted the guy here and gave him every chance to succeed. My dude was given the ball with a live dribble more than anyone else but Luka...probably not as much as Brunson, either, but a lot. 

But, if Richardson opts in and isn't traded, I am sure they will subtly suggest that it was the last staff's fault.

I may have phrased my questions wrongly, pal. I'm thinking scheme and coaches preference more than "fault". Do Nico and JKidd see more of a role JRich than what he was able to carve out last season? It seemed like JRich wasn't happy with his minutes. Does he get hopeful about getting a shot to impress a different coach? Those questions are more in line of what I was thinking.

[KillerLeft]

I may have phrased my questions wrongly, pal. I'm thinking scheme and coaches preference more than "fault". Do Nico and JKidd see more of a role JRich than what he was able to carve out last season? It seemed like JRich wasn't happy with his minutes. Does he get hopeful about getting a shot to impress a different coach? Those questions are more in line of what I was thinking.

No, I get it. 

I'm saying that to me, the role Richardson had last season was custom fit for him, with ridiculous effort (in hindsight) put into getting the most out of him possible, when in reality he's just not at a level where that's worth doing. I doubt Kidd can/will do better with him, but it's just my opinion. 

I will be pretty disappointed if Richardson is here next season, myself.

[Chicagojk]

What makes you say this? Is it because of the role change during the playoffs? 

It seemed to me like Carlisle was his biggest fan, and he put off making that obvious change longer than most people thought was reasonable, but that's speculation, I guess. 

Still, we know that as far as analytics are concerned, Richardson was one of the worst rotation players on the team pretty much all season. We know that because @"Kammrath" told us so like once a week. I think it's fair to assume that Bob V or anyone else crunching numbers for the Mavs probably reached a similar conclusion, don't you? My hunch is that Carlisle was being semi-pressured to move Richardson to a much lower rung in the rotation by the end of the season, and BTW, that turned out to be a good move, right?

You are probably right.    My preference is we move on from him.   I also agree Rick gave him chances all year to fill the role he was asked to do.   Being relegated to the bench was  a big sign that they had given up on him as what they envisioned.   

But we have a new GM, and a new coach now.  Every player will be evaluated.  Some will play worse than they did under rick and hopefully some will play better.    Maybe they view Richardson (if he opts in) that there is not value there to move him and it would be better to see if you can get the Richardson from 2 years ago.   

I would be surprised if he is back, but I can see a scenario where he is on the roster next year.  Probably not likely.

[Smitty]

I had such high hopes for JRich before the season started. I viewed him much like THJ, who went from ~34% 3PT shooter to ~39% playing with Luka; whereas JRich went from 37% in his MIA days to a career worst 33% here in Dallas.

I must admit I didn't watch him much before coming to Dallas, but when the trade happened it was his defense that was talked up the most and I was never impressed with that side of the ball either. Covid, shortened season and first year with the team give me some hope that he can have a THJ type emergence here in year 2 but I'm certainly not holding my breath. Sigh.

[HanspardsShowerVoice]

I've haven't been a big fan of JRich time here, to say the least, but I also think if the Mavs can get a 2nd scoring guard/wing like like DeRozan that JRich isn't a bad veteran defensive minded  2 guard to put in that lineup.   You  just can't have him as your 2 guard if you're also getting average or below average offense from your small forward.   Not in today's NBA, at least.   I don't think he'll be very expensive and I like his length.   I also think he could have had a down year dealing with the after effects of reportedly a pretty bad case of COVID.   I really think a 1-4 of Luka, JRich, DeRozan, DoDo/Maxi is a pretty nice blend of shooting, playmaking and defense where no one in the front court is smaller than 6'6".   Getting DoDo's 3P% up to ~38% the last couple of years is a pretty big deal.  With KP and/or Maxi as a stretch big, adds enough shooting at the 4 and 5 that it allows you some padding to compensate for DeRozan and JRich.

[SleepingHero]

Josh Richardson questions:

• Does the front office reboot mean another chance for JRich in Dallas?
  
• Do Nico and Kidd decide that JRich just suffered from not fitting with Rick?
  
• Do we think he looks like he could be a player for another coach and that covid/scheme/coach were the problems last season?
  
• Is JRich set on leaving because of his experience with the team last season? If the Mavs want him, is the relationship salvageable? 
  

1. Unlikely, but I wouldn't rule it out since JRich controls his destiny.
2. Thats an incredibly interesting question. JRich theoretically should've fit so well next to Luka, but his lack of spacing just killed RC's patented offense. Perhaps JKidd can figure it out? I wouldn't hold my breath on that though
3. Again I think there's a slim chance Kidd can put JRich in the right spots on offense to make him work, but JRich still can't shoot which will limit whatever ceiling he'll have. 
4. I think so. Dude definitely lost a lot of money playing under RC last season. I think the regime change means there's a good chance the relationship is salvageable but I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted out of Dallas all together.

[mvossman]

I've haven't been a big fan of JRich time here, to say the least, but I also think if the Mavs can get a 2nd scoring guard/wing like like DeRozan that JRich isn't a bad veteran defensive minded  2 guard to put in that lineup.   You  just can't have him as your 2 guard if you're also getting average or below average offense from your small forward.   Not in today's NBA, at least.   I don't think he'll be very expensive and I like his length.   I also think he could have had a down year dealing with the after effects of reportedly a pretty bad case of COVID.   I really think a 1-4 of Luka, JRich, DeRozan, DoDo/Maxi is a pretty nice blend of shooting, playmaking and defense where no one in the front court is smaller than 6'6".   Getting DoDo's 3P% up to ~38% the last couple of years is a pretty big deal.  With KP and/or Maxi as a stretch big, adds enough shooting at the 4 and 5 that it allows you some padding to compensate for DeRozan and JRich.

I think if JRich opts in, you have enough to sign DeRozan for roughly 4/100.  That probably gets it done (especially because of the 4th year).  If you only want 3 years then it would be 3/70 and I don't know that gets it done.

I do think JRich got hit hard by Covid and had a down year.  I would expect his 3% to be better (probably closer to league average).  My bigger concern is that he likes to operate in the mid range, and we already have Luka and DeRozan in there.  I feel like a better match would be a true 3&D player like Green.  There really are not a lot of options at the roughly MLE level we will have after signing DeRozan.

It's kind of sad reading this thread.  There was reason to get really excited by this trade.  I think if JRich played this year as we had hoped, we might still be playing right now.

[Kammrath]

I obviously am no RC-homer, but I will say I do NOT think RC is in any way responsible for JR's poor play. RC gave him a million chances in many different settings and variations and JR never performed.

[fifteenth]

I obviously am no RC-homer, but I will say I do NOT think RC is in any way responsible for JR's poor play. RC gave him a million chances in many different settings and variations and JR never performed.

I clarified this in my reply to Killer as well. I wasn't trying to say that Rick was responsible for anything about Josh's play. I was wondering whether the Mavs think a scheme change will help him play better and whether Josh has hope that he could get more minutes under the new regime.

[Kammrath]

I was wondering whether the Mavs think a scheme change will help him play better and whether Josh has hope that he could get more minutes under the new regime.

Right, and I think I understood that....I am just suggesting that I don't think ANYTHING will help JR and I think RC tried EVERYTHING. I think he is a fringe NBA player at this point.

[mvossman]

Right, and I think I understood that....I am just suggesting that I don't think ANYTHING will help JR and I think RC tried EVERYTHING. I think he is a fringe NBA player at this point.

This seems like an extreme take.  He had a rough year, and you could question if he is a starter level player, but he is still a better than average defender who is usually ok from three, has a decent mid range game, and can move the ball a bit.  I think if he opts in he will be a small asset.  There are probably multiple teams that would be interested in giving him a one year shot at 11 Mil.

[Kammrath]

he is still a better than average defender

I 100% disagree with this part. At least this year (I never watched him closely enough in previous years). But at NO point this year do I think he was above average as a defender and mostly far below average.

[mvossman]

I 100% disagree with this part. At least this year (I never watched him closely enough in previous years). But at NO point this year do I think he was above average as a defender and mostly far below average.

More extreme take.  He looked rough after Covid and never seemed to fully recover.  We had a lot of guys struggle in that regard like KP and Maxi.  I think the Covid thing, the condensed schedule, the need to win games the entire second half of the season to crawl out of the Covid hole and avoid the play-in took its toll on a lot of players.  But maybe your right, maybe a guy who has been a quality starter most of his career suddenly doesn't belong the court any more at age 27.  I think its more likely he had a really bad year with some extenuating circumstances, but we shall see.

[Kammrath]

a quality starter most of his career

He has ONE year of "quality starter" IMO, 18-19 in MIA. He was bad in PHI and worse in DAL.

[dirkfansince1998]

Expected to get the Heat version. Thought that he just had a down year on a team with terrible spacing in Philly. Turns out that he probably was the biggest reason for the lack of spacing. It´s not only the lack of 3-point shooting. Awareness, positioning and for lack of words intangibles. Closing driving lanes for his teammates with badly timed cuts. Rotating to an occupied spot on the 3-point line.
I thought he looked really good on defense in the first few games (prior to COViD and KPs comeback). Post COVID comeback I  did not notice a difference between him and any other defender on the floor. Would actually say that Doncic and THJ both played better defense.