2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[omahen]

Here is a trade that would cover what Scott and Killer are looking for.

OKC: Powell (at this point I know everyone likes the trade), Johnson and smaller contract (Green, WCS or Boban) plus picks (if it's not Green in the trade)
Dal: Hill, Horford

Those two shouldn't cost a lot, Mavs get huge vet leadership and proven winners while not really sacrificing a lot. Both vets can come from bench or jump in the starting line-up. Hill will be expiring next season, while Horford will be sort of expiring too in 2022 (not full salary guaranteed). Brunson becomes redundant, though. When OKC cuts Johnson we can resign him - I really like his big wing defense.

[903Mavs]

I link the idea of Horford/Hill, but I don’t believe the Mavs can re-sign Johnson for a calendar year after they trade him.
I think the league closed that loophole several years ago.

[Branduil]

Mavs shouldn't be giving up picks or young talent for Horford, if anything OKC would need to give us picks.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

Here is a trade that would cover what Scott and Killer are looking for.

OKC: Powell 

sign me up

[StepBackJay]

sign me up

I would definitely be interested in a trade that moves out Powell and THJ for Horford and George Hill. I don't think Mavs would do it bc they want FA money. Hill could come off the bench and Rick might let Horford start with DFS. It's also possible Rick would start Hill and bring Horford off the bench. Anyways I don't think Mavs would do it but I like those two players even though they are older.

[deronjohn]

I would definitely be interested in a trade that moves out Powell and THJ for Horford and George Hill. I don't think Mavs would do it bc they want FA money. Hill could come off the bench and Rick might let Horford start with DFS. It's also possible Rick would start Hill and bring Horford off the bench. Anyways I don't think Mavs would do it but I like those two players even though they are older.

We would likely be compensated with the money as that is not equal value. 


For taking on those years and freeing them up 15 million dollars requires a pick or a player attached.

[cow]

He has to take on the JJB role. He was taught by him to do so!

He's no JJB athletically though.  I'm not sure what to call it, but JJB is much more of a jitterbug.

[ItsGoTime]

He's no JJB athletically though.  I'm not sure what to call it, but JJB is much more of a jitterbug.

He certainly knows how to make a dent in a wood floor with the ball like JJB does.

[cow]

He certainly knows how to make a dent in a wood floor with the ball like JJB does.

Unless you have the gift like CP3, that stature is going to limit your passing ability.

[StepBackJay]

We would likely be compensated with the money as that is not equal value. 


For taking on those years and freeing them up 15 million dollars requires a pick or a player attached.

Right and OKC isn't going to do that so that's why it's unlikely to happen.

[ItsGoTime]

Unless you have the gift like CP3, that stature is going to limit your passing ability.

Nobody is getting it.

[BolsDamols]

Nobody is getting it.

https://gfycat.com/euphoricwellgroomedannashummingbird

[cow]

Nobody is getting it.

Why turn it over passing when I can turn it over trying to score?

[embellisher]

I dont understand why people think Buddy Hield is this gigantic upgrade over THJ.  If you look at things like Real Plus Minus, he would be a downgrade.  And Hield and THJ are both 28 years old, so it's not like Hield more fits the mold of a young up and coming future 3rd star who has tons of ceiling left to reach. 

I think the upside of playing in a bad small market franchise is everyone thinks you could thrive in another situation and it's nothing is really your fault, whereas being in a huge market bad franchise like the Knicks you just get endlessly mocked and become the league poster child for being overpaid.

This.  In spite of my worries about attitude and what it does to the locker room, I don't mind a 1:1 THJ for Hield swap, or maybe even throw in a 2nd.

But when we start talking about THJ  + another asset for a guy who is really only a lateral move, and less of a complete player, that's an overpay.

What if you make this deal and he messes up chemistry, either on the court, or in the locker room?

Yeah, you can probably move him, but if you've given up a starter + assets, it's a bad deal. 

And if he messes up the locker room, you might have to attach an asset to get him out of here as well.

[DanSchwartzgan]

@"aguiar95" had him at #4 on his Mavs board.

@"Scott41theMavs" had him at #14 on his Mavs board.

I had Precious Achiuwa at #9 on my Mavs board.

https://www.qabickcents.com/dallasbasket...hp?tid=200

OK, those guys plus SleepingHero.  I was on TeamNesmith also, but Haliburton was my trade-up dream.

I'm not sure about the proposed Davis AND Kawhi (or Davis & Kawhi) deal.  I'm tired of giving away picks.

[StepBackJay]

This.  In spite of my worries about attitude and what it does to the locker room, I don't mind a 1:1 THJ for Hield swap, or maybe even throw in a 2nd.

But when we start talking about THJ  + another asset for a guy who is really only a lateral move, and less of a complete player, that's an overpay.

What if you make this deal and he messes up chemistry, either on the court, or in the locker room?

Yeah, you can probably move him, but if you've given up a starter + assets, it's a bad deal. 

And if he messes up the locker room, you might have to attach an asset to get him out of here as well.

Hield is a 41% career shooter and close to 20 ppg scorer the last few years. I don't watch a lot of Kings games but I think he is a much better version of what we want THJ to be.

[StepBackJay]

In my view Hield would probably be the easiest guy to get out of Hield, LaVine, Dipo. Unlike with Dipo you have Hield locked up for a couple of seasons at a reasonable number. The trade would be THJ for Hield + some other small asset I am guessing. Just an expiring player like THJ to me isn't enough unless the Kings truly just want to unload money. I imagine some team would give up something that's better than just expiring which many teams have. I do think you'd need to give up one of your young prospects to get a deal done. I wouldn't put Green in any deals though, I think he has starting upside.

[KillerLeft]

I don't watch a lot of Kings games but I think he is a much better version of what we want THJ to be.

I helped drive the Hield bus for a while this off-season, but now I’m thinking I’d rather have whichever player (he or THJ) would be less likely to cause trouble about coming off of the bench. Since I believe that’s Hardaway, who we already know loves it here and fits into the culture, I think I’m into playing this out. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a THJ apologist, but if he hasn’t found a role here that makes sense for the team by the trade deadline, I’m into moving him...I just don’t know that another guard with a similar game who expects to start and finish games would be my preference. 

Then again, so many things might look completely different by then.

[SleepingHero]

But when we start talking about THJ  + another asset for a guy who is really only a lateral move, and less of a complete player, that's an overpay.

What if you make this deal and he messes up chemistry, either on the court, or in the locker room?

Yeah, you can probably move him, but if you've given up a starter + assets, it's a bad deal. 

And if he messes up the locker room, you might have to attach an asset to get him out of here as well.

First, any trade can mess up chemistry. It's an assumed risk because we're trying to raise the talent level. Sometimes it works out very well (I.E. Josh Richardson). Other times not so much (I.E Rondo). 

But if you want to raise the talent level of the team, you need to take risks.

Second, I don't know why we have to downplay Hield as a player and at the same time prop up THJ. What does THJ do that makes him a more complete player than Hield? Because I don't see it.

Defense? Largely equal between them all things considered
Passing? THJ does not pass the ball. Buddy has a higher average APG. Not like he passes the ball either, but it's still higher.
Ball handling? I mean THJ does handle the ball and let him dribble to find open looks. But like Buddy it isn't a strong suit and not why we're playing him
Shooting? It's not even a discussion 
Scoring? Buddy has averaged higher PPG the last 2 years than THJ's peak of 18ppg. Yes it's on the Kings, but THJ was on the Knicks and still didn't crack 20ppg. 

Am I missing anything? Don't get me wrong. THJ isn't a bad player per say and I've come around on him. He fills a role here, but there are other 2-guards that are much better than him. And Buddy would fill what we're asking THJ to do here much better. 

I'm now going to change my title to SleepingHero: Gamethread Announcer, Staunch Buddy Defender, King of the Andals, 1st of his name.

[SleepingHero]

but now I’m thinking I’d rather have whichever player (he or THJ) would be less likely to cause trouble about coming off of the bench

If THJ was shooting 40% from 3 we wouldn't need him to go to the bench to get his shots. Which is my whole point. Having a shooter like Buddy out there changes the entire defensive gameplan for the opposing team. You cannot leave him open. He has shot 46%, 50%, 42%, 42% on catch and shoot 3's for his career. That kind of shooting changes the spacing for the entire team.

I'd much rather have a shooter like that in the starting lineup, and then find other ways (I.E using Brunson) to fix the bench.