2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[DanSchwartzgan]

out - Kristaps Porzingis;

fill out roster with over-the-cap exceptions

Mark wants flexibility without a legitimate 2nd superstar on the roster;  

Here are the numbers to illustrate the financial difference between this plan and doing a KP deal as an under the cap team.  Under the cap, you would try to design a deal where the other team sent back as close to the $25.2mm minimum returning salary as possible in a deal for KP or $34.5mm in a deal for KP and JRich.   The latter deal would add $8.7mm to cap space if we were trying to operate under the cap and sign FA's.

If we are bringing back THJ as an over the cap team (that doesn't want to offer long term deals to summer FA's), then trade targets can return dramatically more salary in the current season.  Instead of $34.5mm returning for KP/JRich, you can bring back $54.18mm (or $53.5mm for KP/Powell).  Now, part of the return for the trade partner is the ability to lower 21/22 salary.  

Returning to Boston as an example, they can trade us Horford, Smart, Thompson and Grant Williams (Duffy).  You can add a minor contract if you want R. Williams (also Duffy) or Nesmith (Schwartz) or want to substitute Powell for JRich.  Boston saves about $10mm in these various iterations, which may be enough to retain Fournier and stay under the LT line.  Dallas gets a short term answer at center with Horford partially guaranteed next year and Thompson expiring.  They get a smart JRich replacement for at least a year and a promising kid.  Not the best off-season, but something like this is what we may be looking at if Cuban is trying to maintain flexibility for that second star later.

[TXBamanut]

Here are the numbers to illustrate the financial difference between this plan and doing a KP deal as an under the cap team.  Under the cap, you would try to design a deal where the other team sent back as close to the $25.2mm minimum returning salary as possible in a deal for KP or $34.5mm in a deal for KP and JRich.   The latter deal would add $8.7mm to cap space if we were trying to operate under the cap and sign FA's.

If we are bringing back THJ as an over the cap team (that doesn't want to offer long term deals to summer FA's), then trade targets can return dramatically more salary in the current season.  Instead of $34.5mm returning for KP/JRich, you can bring back $54.18mm (or $53.5mm for KP/Powell).  Now, part of the return for the trade partner is the ability to lower 21/22 salary.  

Returning to Boston as an example, they can trade us Horford, Smart, Thompson and Grant Williams (Duffy).  You can add a minor contract if you want R. Williams (also Duffy) or Nesmith (Schwartz) or want to substitute Powell for JRich.  Boston saves about $10mm in these various iterations, which may be enough to retain Fournier and stay under the LT line.  Dallas gets a short term answer at center with Horford partially guaranteed next year and Thompson expiring.  They get a smart JRich replacement for at least a year and a promising kid.  Not the best off-season, but something like this is what we may be looking at if Cuban is trying to maintain flexibility for that second star later.

They can't package Horford with other players for several months, so that that can't happen this off-season, can they?  Since they just traded for him in the last couple of weeks?

[omahen]

They can't package Horford with other players for several months, so that that can't happen this off-season, can they?

I think I saw somewhere he can be aggregated from beginning of August

[ItsGoTime]

I think I saw somewhere he can be aggregated from beginning of August

I thought it was said that because the trade happened this season, once this season ends (well, next season starts) he is then free game. (edit: which is beginning of August)

[Mavs2021]

Boston wants to sign Beal next summer. They are not adding salary.

[omahen]

If we can finalize this one after we sign our FA, I would do it, why not.

https://twitter.com/DallasMavsWorld/stat...9588614149

[cow]

If we can finalize this one after we sign our FA, I would do it, why not.

https://twitter.com/DallasMavsWorld/stat...9588614149

21-22 18M
22-23 19M
23-24 20M (non-guaranteed)

That's a no from me.

[Kammrath]

21-22 18M
22-23 19M
23-24 20M (non-guaranteed)

That's a no from me.

Yeah seriously.....bailing on Terry already for the 24th pick and TONS of money the next two years? Barf.

[omahen]

21-22 18M
22-23 19M
23-24 20M (non-guaranteed)

That's a no from me.

I didn't know you want to keep JRich. Once you are operating over the cap, money is irrelevant for everyone but Cuban. Gordon will be large expiring next season.

[cow]

I didn't know you want to keep JRich. Once you are operating over the cap, money is irrelevant for everyone but Cuban. Gordon will be large expiring next season.

JRich hasn't opted in.  If he does, I'd rather have his contract and Terry than Gordon and #24.

[SleepingHero]

If we can finalize this one after we sign our FA, I would do it, why not.

https://twitter.com/DallasMavsWorld/stat...9588614149

The main reason against it is that Eric Gordon has had a long list of lingering injury concerns and could be considered washed up on a big contract. Is that worth the 24th pick in this draft? I'm not too sure.

I think the Mavs could get a JRich trade done without having to take on an albatross salary in return.

[omahen]

The main reason against it is that Eric Gordon has had a long list of lingering injury concerns and could be considered washed up on a big contract.

Last two seasons he had injury troubles. Although I guess Houston didn't really need (want) him to play this tanking season. I think he would be a great scoring punch from the bench replacing THJ production. If one doesn't believe in JRich that is way more valuable, even with calculated injury risk. I rather accept Terry was a mistake and make a new shot with #24 than wait for a couple of years.

Sure, there could be better offers on the table. I would also prefer Houston to take Powell instead of JRich. But if not, I would pull the trigger on this one.

[mvossman]

I didn't know you want to keep JRich. Once you are operating over the cap, money is irrelevant for everyone but Cuban. Gordon will be large expiring next season.

May not be operating over the cap, there are other options for JRich if he opts in, and there are ramifications from tax line to hard cap line for taking on tons of salary.  There are situations where that might be worth it, but don't think Gordon in the 20s would be one of them.  Plus I seriously doubt this team is interested in a late first round pick unless they are trading it.

[cjeter24]

I'm not a huge fan of Dinwiddie.  He is kind of a poor mans DeRozan.  But he is a better off ball shooter, and not as bad a defender.  His fit is more reasonable and he does have some true scoring talent.  He would be disappointing as our primary target/get, but if we are engineering a trade of an opted in JRich (either as an over the cap move or after we landed a big fish with cap space) I'm not sure of a reasonable trade that makes more sense.  Who would you prefer?

Anyone I don't have to give an overpriced 3 year deal to. 

I'd rather keep Jrich for 1 year then trade for 3 years of Dinwiddie.

[omahen]

May not be operating over the cap, there are other options for JRich if he opts in

I didn't mean Mavs would be operating over the cap. But the trade can be executed, once Mavs use their cap space for their big summer aquisition using THJ and WCS space of some 24 mil. After that you trade JRich, so that extra salary from Gordon (in this example) doesn't reduce our cap space.

[mvossman]

Anyone I don't have to give an overpriced 3 year deal to. 

I'd rather keep Jrich for 1 year then trade for 3 years of Dinwiddie.

This is a situation where we are already capped out, and will likely be over cap for years.  The overpriced aspect is not as big a deal.  JRich walks next year and it is unlikely we get anything from that.  If your choice is 1 year of JRich or 3/4 years if Din without looking at cap, that seems to be an easy answer.  

Considering the alternative suggestions are Oubre and Gordon, Din is starting to look pretty good.  I'm curious what other reasonable options there might be out there?

[omahen]

I'm curious what other reasonable options there might be out there?

For JRich you can hope to get an asset for taking bad contract (Gordon, Favors, Thompson, Aminu,...).

You can trade him for a somehow equally good player on a bit longer contract like Ross or Nance. Nance would be one great option. He had excellent first half of the season but bad second half, so I wonder what his value is. Perhaps Mavs would need to add a smaller asset in this case. 

You can include him in a larger trade with additional players. 

You can trade him in a SnT for a free agent (THT, Din,...). 

These are all legit possibilities. Of course we have no idea what is available and what isn't so I don't see a lot of point in claiming "I would do this".

[mvossman]

For JRich you can hope to get an asset for taking bad contract (Gordon, Favors, Thompson, Aminu,...).

You can trade him for a somehow equally good player on a bit longer contract like Ross or Nance. Nance would be one great option. He had excellent first half of the season but bad second half, so I wonder what his value is. Perhaps Mavs would need to add a smaller asset in this case. 

You can include him in a larger trade with additional players. 

You can trade him in a SnT for a free agent (THT, Din,...). 

These are all legit possibilities. Of course we have no idea what is available and what isn't so I don't see a lot of point in claiming "I would do this".

I guess I was thinking primarily S&T options with teams over the cap who would prefer JRich to nothing.  I agree the trade route has way too many possibilities and likely most of them would not be appealing.

[cjeter24]

This is a situation where we are already capped out, and will likely be over cap for years.  The overpriced aspect is not as big a deal.  JRich walks next year and it is unlikely we get anything from that.  If your choice is 1 year of JRich or 3/4 years if Din without looking at cap, that seems to be an easy answer.  

Considering the alternative suggestions are Oubre and Gordon, Din is starting to look pretty good.  I'm curious what other reasonable options there might be out there?

It is a big deal. Just because we may not have cap space doesn't mean the cap isn't a big deal. Harder to have the full MLE, harder to get guys in SNT deals among other things. 

We do have to pay a few of our own guys the next few years if we keep them.

[mvossman]

It is a big deal. Just because we may not have cap space doesn't mean the cap isn't a big deal. Harder to have the full MLE, harder to get guys in SNT deals among other things. 

We do have to pay a few of our own guys the next few years if we keep them.

eh, I'm getting to the point where if my options are to do nothing (something we have done way too much the last two years) or overpay a little bit for a guy with real NBA talent who we could probably move if we needed to, I lean towards pulling the trigger.  

I am open to other S&T suggestions, but nobody seems inclined to provide any, leading me to believe there are very limited choices beyond Dinwiddie/Oubre.