2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[DanSchwartzgan]

The problem is usually Luka would sign the extension next summer, in which case the caphold would count. I don´t know what happens, when you agree to the super-max extension before next summer. Does that automatically mean the new super-max salary eliminates the caphold, although the extension itself doesn´t start until 2022/2023? Also can you basically have a handshake agreement now, but not make it official until next summer (signature) to stay at the caphold?  

That is a pretty significant question, since it´s $15M in capspace we are talking about.

It won’t be the cap hold.  Luka is agreeing to a contract this summer that will kick in next season.  It is a percentage of the cap number, so the exact amount won’t be determined until the cap is set.  You can look at Tatum from the prior year draft class and see that his 25% of the cap max is already estimated in Boston’s salaries for the 21/22 salary.  The difference is Luka gets 30% instead of 25%.

[Scott41theMavs]

I’ve seen a ton of Malcolm Brogdon trades posted.  Has it been brought up that his first two seasons in Milwaukee were under Kidd.  I kind of think I’ve read that, but not positive.  Normally I’d say CAA probably wouldn’t care for the idea of Brogdon (or Conley or Graham) being traded to a team at a position one of their own (Brunson) is about to enter his contract year.  But, if Brunson is part of the outgoing in a deal for Brogdon, it probably sets up both clients for better deals when their contracts are up.

My single favorite Mavs target. A pipe dream.

[Mavs2021]

It won’t be the cap hold.  Luka is agreeing to a contract this summer that will kick in next season.  It is a percentage of the cap number, so the exact amount won’t be determined until the cap is set.  You can look at Tatum from the prior year draft class and see that his 25% of the cap max is already estimated in Boston’s salaries for the 21/22 salary.  The difference is Luka gets 30% instead of 25%.

What if he simply waits until next summer? Can he still sign the same deal?

[Mapka]

What if he simply waits until next summer? Can he still sign the same deal?

Won't happen,
we will sign players to big multi-year contracts this FA. We won't have any cap next year.

[DanSchwartzgan]

What if he simply waits until next summer? Can he still sign the same deal?

As Mapka says, it won’t happen.  The extension he signs now guarantees $201mm.  If he waits a year, he’s guaranteed nothing.  Dallas has to offer it.  Luka is exactly what the CBA writers had in mind when they wrote this section.  I imagine someone, some day will pass on this to get out of a situation they don’t like.  But, Luka has already said it won’t be him.

[Mavs2021]

As Mapka says, it won’t happen.  The extension he signs now guarantees $201mm.  If he waits a year, he’s guaranteed nothing.  Dallas has to offer it.  Luka is exactly what the CBA writers had in mind when they wrote this section.  I imagine someone, some day will pass on this to get out of a situation they don’t like.  But, Luka has already said it won’t be him.

I´m not saying anything about not signing it, just delaying the signature by 12 months. Of course Luka can sign it now, but it puts the Mavs at a significant competitive cap disadvantage.

As people always say here: Has never happened. What also has never happened in history is an injury that prevented a player of Luka´s level to sign a (super) max contract. He could tear his ACL and Achilles at the same time, and the Mavs would still offer him the super-max the next day.

[Mapka]

I´m not saying anything about not signing it, just delaying the signature by 12 months. Of course Luka can sign it now, but it puts the Mavs at a significant competitive cap disadvantage.

As people always say here: Has never happened. What also has never happened in history is an injury that prevented a player of Luka´s level to sign a (super) max contract. He could tear his ACL and Achilles at the same time, and the Mavs would still offer him the super-max the next day.

But why risk anything as there will be no cap disadvantage because we won't have any cap next year, because we will sign players this year.

[KillerLeft]

I figured everyone knew this and was just being polite.

Well...we were being polite. For some reason, some people decided to stop being polite.

[cow]

Well...we were being polite. For some reason, some people decided to stop being polite.

The stoppage in politeness occurred when the Milwaukee slander started.

[cjeter24]

I figured everyone knew this and was just being polite.  I knew the first time he called me out on a cap mistake.  The long held themes he pounds on haven't changed.

I mean maybe he isn't...

But he used the exact phrasing Dlord has used a few times on twitter, specifically regarding Kawhi.

[SleepingHero]

1. Chicago is positioned to have max cap space next year even wif they extend LaVine this season. They could use a little cap relief this season to extend LaVine while keeping flexibility for 2022, but I am not really interested in their role players with Brunson, Kleber or DFS in mind and I doubt Chicago wants to spend more picks.

I think you're onto something here. Perhaps something centered around Markkanen?

[SleepingHero]

But he used the exact phrasing Dlord has used a few times on twitter, specifically regarding Kawhi.

Maybe Mr. Gump is a big David Lord fan? I mean he did predict a neat trick that the Lakers used to create max cap space with the AD trade.

[DanSchwartzgan]

There are ways to have capspace.

Porzingis 33.9 (reduce this salary by at least half in a trade, Harris/Bamba/pick, Turner/Lamb, Adams/Bledsoe)
Luka 25.4 (caphold, still nobody answered whether his super-max salary counts or the caphold? Anyone know?)
Powell 11.1
Kleber 9.0 (non-guaranteed)
DFS 7.6
Green 3.1
Burke 3.0
Terry 1.7

No doubt if you want to sign Lavine, you can move Kleber (non-guaranteed) + Powell (expiring) + Burke (expiring) + 1st to a team like OKC. That should be no problem at all. Two virtually firsts for 14M of Powell/Burke is a great deal.

Luka 40 (worst case, $15M more if it´s the caphold that counts)
Lavine 33
Turner 18
DFS 7.6
Green 3.1
Terry 1.7
=========
103.4

Against a projected cap of +$120M it´s possible.

Not here to debate how Zach's average usage of 30.9 the last three years would mesh with Luka or how poor our perimeter D would be with that combo.  Not here to debate how ridiculous it would be to sit on $34mm in cap room (more if you make one of those KP trades) for a year on the HOPE you MIGHT land LaVine who will arguably be one of the more attractive FA's.

Just wanted to give you better numbers to work with.  The NBA's current projection for the cap in 2022 is 115.7mm.  Luka's first year would be $34.7mm.

[omahen]

Another interesting possibility. Lets assume Dinwiddie is the guy we want. Brooklyn would likely be more than ready to discuss SnT as they have very limited ways to improve their team. Assuming THJ, WCS and JRich are gone, Mavs have 34 mil of cap space. If we SnT Kleber to BKN for Dinwiddie at 17 mil we would have 25 mil left. Enough for another higher end FA. Of course a compensation from BKN would be required. They probably wouldn't have a problem taking Burke. I think Claxton wouldn't be on the table. A "wink wink" agreement for #27 pick (basically Mavs tell BKN who to pick) and a future second rounder? 

You do this kind of deal only if you know why you need roughly 25 mil of cap space. Collins, for example.

Luka, Brunson
Dinwiddie, Green
DFS, rMLE
Collins, BaE
KP, Powell

[Kammrath]

Luka, Brunson
Dinwiddie, Green
DFS, rMLE
Collins, BaE
KP, Powell

You have my attention.

[mvossman]

Another interesting possibility. Lets assume Dinwiddie is the guy we want. Brooklyn would likely be more than ready to discuss SnT as they have very limited ways to improve their team. Assuming THJ, WCS and JRich are gone, Mavs have 34 mil of cap space. If we SnT Kleber to BKN for Dinwiddie at 17 mil we would have 25 mil left. Enough for another higher end FA. Of course a compensation from BKN would be required. They probably wouldn't have a problem taking Burke. I think Claxton wouldn't be on the table. A "wink wink" agreement for #27 pick (basically Mavs tell BKN who to pick) and a future second rounder? 

You do this kind of deal only if you know why you need roughly 25 mil of cap space. Collins, for example.

Luka, Brunson
Dinwiddie, Green
DFS, rMLE
Collins, BaE
KP, Powell

I hope to god Din is not our target, and if he is we better not pay 17 mil for him, and if we do we better not trade Maxi for him.  

Also, I don't see Atlanta giving up Collins, and if they do it will require assets, and if it does it will very likely include Maxi.

If we are going to get someone who can't space the floor very well and can't play defense, I would rather just get DeRozan who is an elite shot creator.

[Okstate819]

You have my attention.

Replace Din with Norm Powell in this scenario and I agree.

[omahen]

we better not trade Maxi for him.

Maxi was not traded for Dinwiddie, I thought that was clear. He was traded for asset(s) and cap space. 

I would rather just get DeRozan who is an elite shot creator.

DeRozan would cost roughly 25 mil and I don't see SA doing SnT. I fail to see how DeRozan and 9 mil of cap space is better than Dinwiddie+asset minus Maxi and 25 mil of cap space. If you think Collins is impossible, you can look at other players or combinations of them for 25 mil.

[omahen]

Replace Din with Norm Powell in this scenario and I agree.

Powell is also an interesting name but I think Portland would be more willing to money whip him than BKN Dinwiddie. I think BKN has zero intention to keep Dinwiddie and he has zero intention to stay. There is simply no reasonable place for him on that team behind Irving and Harden. Paying 15+ mil for a backup is extremely expensive even for BKN. 

That is why Powell might be way more expensive than 17 mil before Portland chokes and shows readiness to discuss SnT. And even if Powell becomes too expensive, they can use MLE to sign player of Maxi caliber. I just don't see them trading Little or Simmons for Maxi and they don't have 2021 picks. Any future FRP pick for Maxi would be heavily protected.

[mvossman]

Maxi was not traded for Dinwiddie, I thought that was clear. He was traded for asset(s) and cap space. 


DeRozan would cost roughly 25 mil and I don't see SA doing SnT. I fail to see how DeRozan and 9 mil of cap space is better than Dinwiddie+asset minus Maxi and 25 mil of cap space. If you think Collins is impossible, you can look at other players or combinations of them for 25 mil.

I think the goal for this offseason is to sign one of the guys that are actually worth 20+ mil a year.  I believe that is the goal of the FO, and you could make a strong argument that is the best way to improve the talent on the starting lineup.  I also think ideally that player can be staggered with Luka to help bolster the bench that got abused regularly this year when Luka was off the court.

That list in order of priority is probably something like:

Kawh  2%
Conley  15%
Lowry  5%
Ball  5%
DeRozan  40%
Collins  5%
Powell  10%

Those are the players with my rough estimated chance to land them.  I think a big reason you bring in Nico and Kidd is to land one of these guys.  By far the most likely scenario is DeRozan and second is Conley.  Neither would make any sense to pair with Din.

This is a weak free agency class.  I don't think it really makes sense to go through machinations to generate cap space unless you can land one of these guys, and most likely that guy will not make sense with Din.  Spreading the cap space across a bunch of roll players (a category I put Din in as he works best as a 6th man) does not really move the needle for me, and I doubt it will for the FO.