2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[SleepingHero]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comme...nless_its/

Not sure if this was posted yet but straight from the horses mouth

[dirkfansince1998]

So we give away the best player in the trade, a recent first round pick, 2 2round picks, an expiring and an ok contract for two players like we already have two, hope on Wiseman and the privilege to take on the single worst contract in the NBA ?

No thanks, like I don´t like trading KP at all - but if, we should at least not be paying for it.

Mavs give up the player with the higest ceiling. Lonzo has been way better than KP this season.
Richardson can defend like Lonzo. THJ can shoot like Lonzo. But they cannot do both. 14/4/5 39% from 3 on 8 3PA. Not to mention that Lonzo is a way better playmaker.
The initial proposal was KP for Wiseman, Wiggins and the Wolves pick. In this case the Mavs use the Wolves pick and two additional 2nds to add Ball.
A player like RoCo was traded for two 1sts in the summer and he isn´t as good as Lonzo. A high lottery pick and two 2nds is probably not enough but he will be a RFA in the summer and the Pelicans probably don´t want to overpay or lose him for nothing.

Hart for Green looks like a fair deal as well. Mavs would need to pay Hart if they want to keep him. He is a league average 3&D/hustle wing. Very likely that Green will have a similar role in the future but right now he is clearly worse.

I am not even sure if KPs value is high enough to get the Min pick but that has been the part where most of us disagree since the KP trade talks started.
Some view him as a negative assets (similar to Wiggins). Injury-prone player that isn´t worth a max deal. Others view him as a max level player that hasn´t even reached his prime.

[dirkfansince1998]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comme...nless_its/

Not sure if this was posted yet but straight from the horses mouth

Really hope that he remembers his words when he lets Richardson and THJ walk in the summer. Don´t think plan continuity includes free agency pipe dreams.

[Mapka]

Mavs give up the player with the higest ceiling. Lonzo has been way better than KP this season.
Richardson can defend like Lonzo. THJ can shoot like Lonzo. But they cannot do both. 14/4/5 39% from 3 on 8 3PA. Not to mention that Lonzo is a way better playmaker.
The initial proposal was KP for Wiseman, Wiggins and the Wolves pick. In this case the Mavs use the Wolves pick and two additional 2nds to add Ball.
A player like RoCo was traded for two 1sts in the summer and he isn´t as good as Lonzo. A high lottery pick and two 2nds is probably not enough but he will be a RFA in the summer and the Pelicans probably don´t want to overpay or lose him for nothing.

Hart for Green looks like a fair deal as well. Mavs would need to pay Hart if they want to keep him. He is a league average 3&D/hustle wing. Very likely that Green will have a similar role in the future but right now he is clearly worse.

I am not even sure if KPs value is high enough to get the Min pick but that has been the part where most of us disagree since the KP trade talks started.
Some view him as a negative assets (similar to Wiggins). Injury-prone player that isn´t worth a max deal. Others view him as a max level player that hasn´t even reached his prime.

Don´t get me wrong, I like Ball - if we had the Minny pick lying around I would think about using it on him.

I don´t like to trade with GSW - Wiseman is payed what Powell gets and is offering even less and I just don´t see the ceiling on him being worth any risk. Who will he become? He has no skills, not the timing or feel for the game.
His legs make Noel look like Hulk . Yes he is fluid and quick and whatever - I believe, when he uses it.

And Wiggins is bad enough to take at least the Minny Pick and then some.

KP is a mystery box - but if he is on at any play-offs with Luka ... oh shiny ring.

[dirkfansince1998]

Don´t get me wrong, I like Ball - if we had the Minny pick lying around I would think about using it on him.

I don´t like to trade with GSW - Wiseman is payed what Powell gets and is offering even less and I just don´t see the ceiling on him being worth any risk. Who will he become? He has no skills, not the timing or feel for the game.
His legs make Noel look like Hulk . Yes he is fluid and quick and whatever - I believe, when he uses it.

And Wiggins is bad enough to take at least the Minny Pick and then some.

KP is a mystery box - but if he is on at any play-offs with Luka ... oh shiny ring.

Remember that Wiseman is not even 20 years old and only played in one college game before be was banned. Agree that he has no feel for the game right now but he is really skilled for a bigman. Soft touch around the rim, trademark turnaround jumper and even solid percentages from 3 (low volume).

[StepBackJay]

Who are they going to get? Give me a name?
 
I don't have a specific name, but I'll say they can get more for a 23 year old player with a 20+ PER than a 25 year old loaded up with a max contract and a list of medical red flags a mile long and who cant stay healty for longer than 2 months at a time who seems to have plateaued on offensive development and regressed in defensive development.

Okay but those guys just don't get moved. If you have a Tatum, Fox, Mitchell, Brown, Simmons, Murray you aren't trading those guys for Ingram. Those are all guys you are adding to, not subtracting. I would imagine they would try to make Ingram + Zion work as long as they could before trading Ingram for anybody. Just saying if he gets traded because if fit they aren't getting 100 cents back on the dollar.

[StepBackJay]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comme...nless_its/

Not sure if this was posted yet but straight from the horses mouth

This is a good statement by Mark and reinforces some stuff that I have been saying. If people are like hey lets go get Lonzo or Larry Nance or any number of guys that will require Mavs top 7 guys then it's probably not going to happen. The KP situation is separate and one worth monitoring (and is fun to speculate about) but realistically he is not getting moved either.

He downplayed making any move at all but I think part of that is good posturing to say Mavs don't "have to do anything" but sure if you are going to "blow it up" and give us a good player in a contract dump situation we will definitely look at that.

[StepBackJay]

Remember that Wiseman is not even 20 years old and only played in one college game before be was banned. Agree that he has no feel for the game right now but he is really skilled for a bigman. Soft touch around the rim, trademark turnaround jumper and even solid percentages from 3 (low volume).

Right and there's a reason why he was picked 2nd overall in the draft over all these other guys. In a league that is obsessed with playmaking guards and wings he was taken 2nd over all. People act like that's not a big deal. He must have a lot of talent to be taken that high.

[StepBackJay]

Another thing on Lonzo if ya'll like him so much is he not a candidate to overpay in RFA next offseason? It seems like there would be a number you can get him at to make the Pels let him walk or you do a S&T situation (using the overpay as leverage) to give them a small asset in return. It would be similar to the situation with Brogdan a couple years ago.

I am not in love with Lonzo per se, altho i do like him and considering what's available in FA if you could get him for some combo of like an overpay + like Green or something I would be interested. It might be better than overpaying Rich and/or THJ.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Another thing on Lonzo if ya'll like him so much is he not a candidate to overpay in RFA next offseason? It seems like there would be a number you can get him at to make the Pels let him walk or you do a S&T situation (using the overpay as leverage) to give them a small asset in return. It would be similar to the situation with Brogdan a couple years ago.

I am not in love with Lonzo per se, altho i do like him and considering what's available in FA if you could get him for some combo of like an overpay + like Green or something I would be interested. It might be better than overpaying Rich and/or THJ.

I agree I see Lonzo as more of a potential signing in RFA, moreso than the Mavs swapping out existing talent to do so.   I do like Lonzo a lot, because I see him as the realized version of what people projected Halliburton to be.  A guard who complements Luka very well.   Plays defense at an extremely high level, shoots 3s and contributes to total team offensive ball movement without requiring that the ball goes through him.   Like if Josh Richardson was 4 years younger,  could actually shoot 3s at 38%, could distribute the ball at a high level and was steadily improving all his offensive metrics every year instead of stagnating/getting worse.

[StepBackJay]

I agree I see Lonzo as more of a potential signing in RFA, moreso than the Mavs swapping out existing talent to do so.   I do like Lonzo a lot, because I see him as the realized version of what people projected Halliburton to be.  A guard who complements Luka very well.   Plays defense at an extremely high level, shoots 3s and contributes to total team offensive ball movement without requiring that the ball goes through him.   Like if Josh Richardson was 4 years younger,  could actually shoot 3s at 38%, could distribute the ball at a high level and was steadily improving all his offensive metrics every year instead of stagnating/getting worse.

Mavs need to leak some stories like "aggressive offer to Lonzo this offseason" to try to scare Pels. Say here Pels is J Rich and Green, now how bow that Lonzo?

[ItsGoTime]

When a big three needs to be made, that player is one you are confident they will deliver

So, not Seth Curry.

[ItsGoTime]

Right and there's a reason why he was picked 2nd overall in the draft over all these other guys. In a league that is obsessed with playmaking guards and wings he was taken 2nd over all. People act like that's not a big deal. He must have a lot of talent to be taken that high.

What number was Darko Milicic picked at?

[Mapka]

What number was Darko Milicic picked at?

Thabeet might be a better comp

Wiseman is a Lotto-ticket out of an aweful draft. He might be whatever you hope for. But chances are 50-50 at best, that he is a starter level player.

[StepBackJay]

Thabeet might be a better comp

Wiseman is a Lotto-ticket out of an aweful draft. He might be whatever you hope for. But chances are 50-50 at best, that he is a starter level player.

I mean we are like 40 games into the season. We are saying Wiseman is a bust already? Give me a break. You are acting like he's a spare and this guy was just taken 2nd over all not that long ago. I like Wiseman's upside a lot!

[Jason Terry]

I’d do a straight up KP for Ingram swap

KP fits better with Zion. Ingram fits better with Luka

[KillerLeft]

I’d do a straight up KP for Ingram swap

KP fits better with Zion. Ingram fits better with Luka

I would do that deal. FOR SURE. 

I think that for New Orleans, much like for our Mavs, the IDEA of Porzingis is a great fit, but the reality is far less attractive. Even if we subscribe to the idea that Zion/BI aren’t a fit, I’d wager that they could do better than KP in trade.

[Mapka]

I mean we are like 40 games into the season. We are saying Wiseman is a bust already? Give me a break. You are acting like he's a spare and this guy was just taken 2nd over all not that long ago. I like Wiseman's upside a lot!

That's not what I said - I said he is the opposite of a sure thing.
He has the potential, but not showed anything real at all.

Don't give anything on draft spot. I'd take Haliburton over any of the players picked befor him. 
All a higher draft position does is making the contract worse.

[Tyler]

I’d do a straight up KP for Ingram swap

KP fits better with Zion. Ingram fits better with Luka

I’ve thought about that exact deal, and agree you may be onto something. In fact, if you could arguably even expand it to KP/Brunson for Ingram/Ball. Brunson would start in New Orleans, and Ball would look great next to Luka.

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Mavs would have to sweeten up a KP for Ingram deal quite a bit considering that Ingram is better, younger and doesn't have the glaring medical red flags.   The reason New Orleans might put Ingram on the block is that he overlaps so much with Zion, not that he's damaged goods.   If they shop him around, line forms to the left.