2020-2021 ROSTER TALK: Archived

[cow]

Haliburton is untouchable.

[bodhisattva]

You guys complicate things way too much. I am with Schwartz guy. Sign Collins and get Holmes to Dallas and we good. In 3 years Jokič is coming. Who gives a shit if its 1., 2. round or WCF till then. Serious competing starts then. Till 2022/23 it really doesn´t matter whether we have Kemba, Love or Kp. Anything goes as long as their contract is matched with this timeline.

Just my 5 cents.

[StepBackJay]

Hmmm.  I've got two issues with doing the Love thing on a stand-alone basis.  1. I don't like the defensive fit with KP.  2.  If we retain THJ and JRich, we will be pretty tight to the tax and probably won't use the full MLE (then the next season we'd be WAY into the tax).

I don't think Cleveland is going to pay to trade you Love.  Maybe it is THJ/Powell as the Cleveland writer indicated.  Maybe they add a second (Cleveland has a ton of seconds in 22, though I'm not sure another project really moves the needle for Dallas).  I would probably try to swap Iwundu for Windler who might have more value some day as a bench specialist...but I digress.

To your point, what if the Love deal fixes some of the issues with a GS deal for Wiseman.  If you just trade for Wiseman, you are probably taking a step backwards today but betting on his upside.  Love can replace all of what KP does offensively (and is similarly a health risk), but you would be simultaneously developing a potential star who would pair up with Love quite well.  Forget all the other moving parts...would you do KP/Powell for Wiseman/Love?  I would, but I see Wiseman turning into something special.

The three team construct makes dealing with GS easier.  You can do something based on Johnson/Powell going out (with KP) and Oubre coming back with Wiseman/Love.  Or, you can follow along with what the Cleveland writer said and send out THJ instead of Johnson while bringing back Wiggins instead of Oubre.  The latter saves GS a ton of LT and might get you some additional draft compensation.  Wiggins and Love are both FA's the summer of 23.  The extension for Wiseman kicks in in 24.  If you do the Wiggins version it is:

Wiseman/WCS (or MLE)
Love/Maxi
Wiggins/DFS
JRich/Brunson
Luka/Brunson

If you do the Oubre version, simply move DFS back to starting SF and THJ to bench 3/2 as he is currently

Wiseman/WCS (or MLE)
Love/Maxi
DFS/THJ
JRich/THJ
Luka/Brunson

I can't see any scenario where Mavs do Love and Wiggins but the 2nd scenario with Wiseman/Love/Oubre is plausible.

Seeing as how Powell is an 11 million dollar player that plays 5 minutes a night when you swap him for Love you are getting a guy that if healthy is 30 min a night for a net difference of $20 mil or less. Powell's deal is a sunk cost so the only way you can move it is if you trade for someone else's overpaid player but then it makes the difference in contracts not look so bad.

[SleepingHero]

Im starting to come around a bit on Love.

It doesn't make any sense if you're planning to start him, but coming off the bench? He'd be a better offensive version of Maxi capable of carrying the 2nd unit.

And god forbid if KP went down, Love could fill in his role 80% in terms of shooting and rebounding.

It's not perfect, but if it really only is Powell+Johnson for Love, that's as cheap as it gets.

[Kammrath]

if KP went down, Love could fill in

You don't understand....Love is only IF KP is moved.

[SamStetz]

I will say this about Iwundu, I am glad he got a 2 year deal. I wish the second year would’ve been a team option seeing how he’s performed so far, but imagine if he turned in to another Aminu? I think this is an example of growth (however big) for Dallas in that they didn’t offer a young player a 1+1 deal in case he out performed it. I can’t recall seeing another 1+1, minimum deal for a younger player since Aminu, but if I’m wrong I’m curious to know who.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Can you work in another Schwartz guy like Drummond in a buyout to the Mavs on top of the 3 way trade.

I won't take credit for this, but I read on another site a poster's theory that Dallas could trade for Drummond and part of the (wink wink) deal would be for Cleveland to buy out Love.  Love would take a discount equal to two years of the MLE, which Dallas would use this summer on Love.  Drummond is a test drive with Bird rights.  No obligation beyond this season (but he would be better showcased in Dallas than in Cleveland).

[DanSchwartzgan]

If you successfully even get close to predicting a three team trade accurately your legendary status will go down in history!

Your thinking makes so much sense....to me Love makes NO SENSE on this team unless something like the above unfolds. Then I am all in on Love.

I have hit on a few things over the years, but one for every 27,000 guesses doesn't seem like much of a batting average.  

I did nail the Gary Trent deal (I had one of the filler pieces wrong, but it was otherwise dead on).  I used LaFrentz and NVE as an example of something Cuban might do that fit the pattern established by the Howard deal (but I dismissed the idea as being too unbalanced).  Those were both at the LMF board.  I used to post something called "The Summer of Schwartz" every year where I made big sweeping changes that resulted in 5-6 new Exel players on the team each year.  A few of those came true over the years, but it was a schtick more than a prediction.  I also posted the exact concept that six months later became the much ballyhooed Damp Chip.  Dallas didn't use "the chip" in the way DL and I visualized, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an elegant concept.

I think it used to be much easier to predict things when Cuban was in his money-whipping stage.  It has been harder in the post championship years where we just kept churning the roster with moves that didn't seem to make obvious improvements.  Omahen got the Curry/JRich part right this summer.  Maybe we are back in serious talent acquisition mode (at least I hope so).

[Kammrath]

Gary Trent deal

Dang you go way back on these trade predictions....I had no idea. I was a Mavs fan during those days, but was not on any message board until around 2006 I think.

[StepBackJay]

I got J Rich for Curry right.

[ItsGoTime]

Omahen got the Curry/JRich part right this summer.

Ya he did. I was behind him on that deal, although we both thought a pick was needed to go the other way to be even.


I don’t try at all to predict trades that will happen because of what you said. Makes little sense to do that to me. I put myself in the FO shoes to try to see what I would do with the value of a player on the outs, or to try to fix the team. When a trade is made, unless it is a completely obvious win or horrible fail, I always give a certain amount of time depending on the circumstances to actually come to any conclusion on a trade.

[michaeltex]

17 days.

The sooner, the better. 2nd half schedule isn't going to have many breaks to integrate new talent, so it's all going to have to happen under the pressure of a busy schedule. I'm guessing team performance in the next few games will determine the urgency.

Personally, I think a trade of Powell+Johnson for Love should happen whatever KP's status is or will be. Although the Wiseman+Oubre portion is appealing if DAL decides to move on.

[omahen]

Omahen got the Curry/JRich part right this summer

I am generating so many trade ideas that one of them has to be correct

[SkenfromLMF]

So... Powell, Johnson and Iwundu for Love at the TDL. Sign Courtney Lee for the rest of the season.

This Sumer:
OPTION 1: trade KP with an S&T of either THJ/Josh Richardson to Washington for Beal (keep the other).

OPTION 2: 3-way with Sacto and Philly - KP to Sacto, Hield to Philly, Bagley to Dallas, Tobias Harris to Dallas - keep THJ and Richardson

[HanspardShowerVoice]

Would rather have Larry Nance than Love for the salary and cost, and would certainly rather have Nance than Drummond.  

The Cavaliers have received interest in a trade for Larry Nance Jr. from the Timberwolves, Celtics, Sixers, Pelicans, Mavericks, and Heat, but are reluctant to move him.

Notice these are largely the smart franchises run by the smart people, with maybe the exception of TWolves who are at least run by someone who was groomed by a smart person and likely shares a lot of those smart persons systems  even if he can't execute them in practice. 

[Jason Terry]

Sac: KP and Iwundu

Cle: Johnson, Powell, Terry, Dallas 2021 2nd

Dal: Love, Barnes, Bjelica, Holmes and Sac future 1st

Luka/Brunson
JRich/THj
Barnes/DFS
Love/Maxi
Holmes/WCS

Bjelica and Burke 11th and 12th guys 

The Sac 1st and our own future 1st’s could be used down the road in trade

[StepBackJay]

Would rather have Larry Nance than Love for the salary and cost, and would certainly rather have Nance than Drummond.  


Notice these are largely the smart franchises run by the smart people, with maybe the exception of TWolves who are at least run by someone who was groomed by a smart person and likely shares a lot of those smart persons systems  even if he can't execute them in practice. 

People keep bringing up Larry Nance but I think he is going to cost something other than expiring and a 2nd round pick or two. It looks like there is a lot of interest from other teams.

[KillerLeft]

People keep bringing up Larry Nance but I think he is going to cost something other than expiring and a 2nd round pick or two. It looks like there is a lot of interest from other teams.

Agreed, but i might still be interested, depending on what that "something other" is.

[StepBackJay]

You could do something like https://tradenba.com/trades/P8oV7m6HU which brings back Love and Larry Nance. The trade would be fairly uneven but might assume Drummond is already bought out which frees up one spot on the Cavs roster. They could find some other filler.

I don't think the Mavs would do both Love and Nance but just a thought.

[StepBackJay]

Agreed, but i might still be interested, depending on what that "something other" is.

Well like we definitely aren't including a top 7 player so it would probably mean Mavs are parting with one of their rookies.