EXTENSION: Gobert signs 5yr/$205M w/ UTA | DAL "significant interest" if available

[KillerLeft]

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Also, part of the reason why it feels more important than other offseasons and TDLs is because of the results of the last 2 FA periods.

Well, that's true. 

But, I maintain that until Luka signs that extension, NOTHING is better than SOMETHING "MEH", because NOTHING doesn't close the window. In other words, I'm cool with them sticking to their "nothing big unless it's for a difference maker" policy last summer over the thought of overpaying someone average. I realize they did that with Wright, and that sucked, but it wasn't a move that couldn't be undone fairly easily. I think they deserve credit for staying locked in on the mission while simultaneously getting better on the court. Two summers in a row, now.

[ItsGoTime]

Well, that's true. 

You've made a few posts about how great last offseason was. So which is it?

I realize they did that with Wright, and that sucked, but it wasn't a move that couldn't be undone fairly easily.

It created 2 underwhelming offseasons due to the 1 signing. Underwhelming in the sense of what you're proposing they need to get and what they had to get it. Just get the player to say "YES", then make the money work (or have a rough plan in place to get the money as a contingency plan of getting said "YES"). Not simple, but we've shown that the hardest part of the process is getting the player to say "YES".

[KillerLeft]

You've made a few posts about how great last offseason was. So which is it?

Unsuccessful, in that they were unable to land the difference maker they need, but GREAT, in that they didn't respond to that by settling for less, closing that door. Next summer is the deadline, and they understand that.

[SkenfromLMF]

Unsuccessful, in that they were unable to land the difference maker they need, but GREAT, in that they didn't respond to that by settling for less, closing that door. Next summer is the deadline, and they understand that.

I don't know that I am comfortable depending on the MBT to respond to deadlines...
Sorry, but Donnie does his best work when other people feel deadlines - thus the KP trade.
Putting Dallas on the clock has not historically produced results - in fact you could present the case that deadlines cause mark to make a mess of the process. It is why Dallas did not draft/keep the pick that would have netted Giannis in the first place. mark felt a deadline to create max cap-space and missed the opportunity to draft a generational talent in order to pursue Dwight Howard. Giannis signing at this point would completely undo the cap space process. We are full in on plan powder and it simply blows up in our face when the winds change and we are left holding a bag of nothing.

[ItsGoTime]

Next summer is the deadline, and they understand that.

I certainly hope they are good procrastinators, cause we've been talking about that deadline for at least 2 years now. I certainly hope they don't mess this up as the target gets smaller and smaller. However, if they do, there's always next offseason and TDL, and the next, and the next.

[KillerLeft]

I certainly hope they are good procrastinators, cause we've been talking about that deadline for at least 2 years now. I certainly hope they don't mess this up as the target gets smaller and smaller. However, if they do, there's always next offseason and TDL, and the next, and the next.

They might mess it up. Very possible. And you're right - the target is getting smaller. But, the standard is the standard, and it's a FACT that there's a minimum level of talent you need, if the goal is to be a championship favorite. 

And yes, there will be off-seasons after next, but unfortunately, if they come up empty between now and then, the stakes will be completely different. If that happens, depending on the situation, I might even be inclined to blow it up down to Luka again immediately and start this whole ride over. Trade KP (if he's healthy enough) and anyone else you can for picks and cheap players YOUNGER than Luka and start the long route again. 

ANYTHING but a repeat of Dirk's career.

[SkenfromLMF]

They might mess it up. Very possible. And you're right - the target is getting smaller. But, the standard is the standard, and it's a FACT that there's a minimum level of talent you need, if the goal is to be a championship favorite. 

And yes, there will be off-seasons after next, but unfortunately, if they come up empty between now and then, the stakes will be completely different. If that happens, depending on the situation, I might even be inclined to blow it up down to Luka again immediately and start this whole ride over. Trade KP (if he's healthy enough) and anyone else you can for picks and cheap players YOUNGER than Luka and start the long route again. 

ANYTHING but a repeat of Dirk's career.

The fear at that point is that Luka will force his way out before that process starts over...
Losing the generational talent is among my worst fears... I don't want to be Orlando losing Shaq, then T-Mac, then...

[KillerLeft]

The fear at that point is that Luka will force his way out before that process starts over...
Losing the generational talent is among my worst fears... I don't want to be Orlando losing Shaq, then T-Mac, then...

My counter to this would be that Luka is special enough, like Lebron, to know that he'd be wasted in a situation like what Dirk put up with. 

All the more reason to get this right the first time around (BEFORE he signs that extension), for sure, but I'd hate to be in the situation Milwaukee is in right now with Giannis. I know that. I'd have taken evasive maneuvers a couple of years ago, if I were running that team. How did they not know they needed a freaking PG until his contract year???? I honestly believe that a decision to take 1-2 steps back a couple of years ago in order to make a LEAP forward (with a freaking BALL-HANDLER) would've resulted in a more rosy relationship with Giannis RIGHT NOW. 

HE is like Dirk, and HE might just re-sign anyway, but Luka will not, if the Mavs are in that same situation when the time comes. Luka didn't come from an impoverished situation, like Giannis. He was driving that badass metallic blue Porsche in Europe before even coming here. He has known he is a SUPERSTAR since he was like 17 years old. 

I'm telling you guys, they need to get this right. 11x50 isn't going to cut it this time.

[ItsGoTime]

My counter to this would be that Luka is special enough, like Lebron, to know that he'd be wasted in a situation like what Dirk put up with. 

All the more reason to get this right the first time around (BEFORE he signs that extension), for sure, but I'd hate to be in the situation Milwaukee is in right now with Giannis. I know that. I'd have taken evasive maneuvers a couple of years ago, if I were running that team. How did they not know they needed a freaking PG until his contract year???? I honestly believe that a decision to take 1-2 steps back a couple of years ago in order to make a LEAP forward (with a freaking BALL-HANDLER) would've resulted in a more rosy relationship with Giannis RIGHT NOW. 

HE is like Dirk, and HE might just re-sign anyway, but Luka will not, if the Mavs are in that same situation when the time comes. Luka didn't come from an impoverished situation, like Giannis. He was driving that badass metallic blue Porsche in Europe before even coming here. He has known he is a SUPERSTAR since he was like 17 years old. 

I'm telling you guys, they need to get this right. 11x50 isn't going to cut it this time.

I don't know anyone who is disagreeing with this. The disagreement comes with the how. For sure I'd love to get another star, but I don't think not getting one is as make or break for this team as you do. I think there is a great path to championships with 3 of the guys we currently have on the team (I'm including JRich as another piece to a championship caliber group without getting into how important a piece he should be while not seeing his on court play with this team).

[KillerLeft]

@"ItsGoTime" I don’t disagree that those three guys are a good start AT ALL. 

I think the other “star” (not in terms of popularity, but in terms of being able to function as a creative presence WITH THE BALL) is not here, and that they’re far more likely to find that guy EVER if they do it BEFORE Luka’s extension. There are just so many more ways it can be done during this time. 

I know this is the part you said you agree with, but I also think that they need to do far, far better with their roster building than they ever came even close to during the Dirk era, or we can kiss Luka goodbye in 5 years. This kid is going to feel like he deserves rings...not wants them, but deserves them. 

Those two beliefs are the pillars of my take. In combination, I believe they point to this next season and off-season being VERY important. I’m feeling good these days, because so far, the Mavs haven’t shot themselves in the foot. But, you’re quite right that avoiding the BAD isn’t the same as achieving the GREAT. They still have to do it.

EDIT: I agree that some of the disagreement is about HOW, but the REASON for that disagreement is about the LEVEL of roster we imagine when we say things like “good enough.” What I’m envisioning as the goal is the caliber of talent at the top that prompts MOST national guys to pick the Mavs as the FAVORITE. Shaq/Kobe...LeBron/Wade...Curry/Durrant...LeBron/Davis...etc. 

No matter how great Luka gets, Luka/KP isn’t that, imo. Not by a long shot. They need that 2nd guy.

[ItsGoTime]

No matter how great Luka gets, Luka/KP isn’t that, imo. Not by a long shot. They need that 2nd guy.

Not by a long shot? Fully disagree with that. Pretty much disagree as a whole. Only question mark in my mind is KP's ability to stay on the court. Other than that, he's fully the second guy. If we get into the playoffs with a 1-6 seed and a fully healthy, ready to go and dialed in KP like he was in the bubble, this team, as currently constructed goes to the WCF. THIS team.

[KillerLeft]

Not by a long shot? Fully disagree with that. Pretty much disagree as a whole. Only question mark in my mind is KP's ability to stay on the court. Other than that, he's fully the second guy. If we get into the playoffs with a 1-6 seed and a fully healthy, ready to go and dialed in KP like he was in the bubble, this team, as currently constructed goes to the WCF. THIS team.

Right, so there you go. THAT is the disagreement, not so much HOW.

[ItsGoTime]

Right, so there you go. THAT is the disagreement, not so much HOW.

I don't get the argument that KP is a max contract guy, yet isn't that guy as well. Seems very contradictory to me. If he's worth the contract, then he is that guy, if not he isn't worth the contract. Seems the FO that you trust is saying he is that guy, but you disagree.

[SleepingHero]

I've read 5 pages of this nonsense.

Y'all are non-believers. KP and Gobert WILL be the force. THE BENCHMARK. ALL WILL BOW FROM OUR DEFENSIVE MIGHT. NO ONE SHALL SCORE AGAINST THE FORMIDABLE EURO DUO.

MAY THE LOBS FLY HIGH AND THE THREES RAIN LIKE FIRE AND BRIMSTONE ON ALL OUR OPPONENTS. NONE SHALL STAND IN OUR WAY WITH OUR TWIN TOWERS.

https://tenor.com/view/kristaps-porzingi...f-17858412 

[KillerLeft]

I don't get the argument that KP is a max contract guy, yet isn't that guy as well. Seems very contradictory to me. If he's worth the contract, then he is that guy, if not he isn't worth the contract. Seems the FO that you trust is saying he is that guy, but you disagree.

Are you suggesting that you believe everyone worthy of a maximum contract makes an equal impact on winning or losing? Or that they all affect the game in the same way?

I think he’s worth the maximum contract, but if the order of operations in your team building leads to a situation where his contract prevents you from adding a more important piece, you might wish that you didn’t have him on the contract. It’s a very simple concept. I don’t expect everyone to agree, but I don’t think it’s difficult to understand.

[ItsGoTime]

Just looked up the stats, KP's drives per game is at 3.7. That is not a lot, but it is more than the 4-5 times this season you commented on. I will say, I remember many times this season where I got a bit frustrated with Luka completely going the opposite direction from KP in games when the two of them were in together. I hope the two of them can develop a two man game soon, cause that is when we'll see the fully operational death star duo. If they never do, it can still work, just not as potent.

[ItsGoTime]

Are you suggesting that you believe everyone worthy of a maximum contract makes an equal impact on winning or losing? Or that they all affect the game in the same way?

A max contract player has to impact the game worthy of a max contract. An impact on the defensive side is just as important as on the offensive side. As long as it is truly an impact on the game, then the how doesn't matter. If you don't believe KP to make a max contract impact on the game, then I don't see how you can believe him to be worthy of the max contract he has.

[KillerLeft]

Hey, I’ve said from the very start of this long KP conversation that I’m leaving room for the idea that they can figure out how to use him in a more effective way to assuage some of my concerns. I just haven’t seen him be the offensive creator I think they need, YET. 

In the next post, it seems like you are saying that two max players who are worthy of max contracts should automatically put you in championship contention. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but that seems to be your point. If so, then no, I just simply disagree. 

I’m sure from past conversations that you think Gobert is a max player. A lot of people would, even if you don’t. Donovan Mitchell is pretty obviously on his way to being a max player. If those two continue to be the two best players on the jazz, I doubt they will ever come even remotely close to contending for a championship. Luka and KP are way closer. Throw Luka into that Utah mix, somehow, without losing Mitchell, and all of a sudden you’ve really got something with Gobert.

[ItsGoTime]

Hey, I’ve said from the very start of this long KP conversation that I’m leaving room for the idea that they can figure out how to use him in a more effective way to assuage some of my concerns. I just haven’t seen him be the offensive creator I think they need, YET. 

I do remember that, and then you say stuff like "long shot" which tells me how much you believe it will actually happen. I believe the ability is there for RC to figure out how to unlock...better than he has. I think the more time on the court and in practice KP has, the more it will become apparent. The question in my mind, is how much time will he get on the court and in practice if he keeps getting injured.

In the next post, it seems like you are saying that two max players who are worthy of max contracts should automatically put you in championship contention. I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but that seems to be your point. If so, then no, I just simply disagree. 

One max player should be able to get a good to great team to the playoffs.

Two with inferior teammates should get you in the playoffs pretty easily and you should be winning at least a series. Two is the rule to be in contention for a championship (there are Dirk and Hakeem and Det team exceptions). Two has to be supported with great fitting and non-inferior players in order to get to contention status (LaL, LaC, Bro as examples).

The degree to how capable the teammates surrounding the 2 need to be is relative to the degree to which the max contract players exceed the max contract. Lebron and AD far exceed a max contract, so they don't need as great a supporting cast in order to be in the contention conversation. Kawhi far exceeds and PG is worthy, so they need a bit better supporting cast than Lebron and AD do.

If you have 3, that automatically puts you in the conversation regardless of the surrounding teammates.

Now, where does that leave the two max contract worthy players that I believe we have on our roster right now? I think Luka exceeds a max contract and not far exceeds because he still needs experience. In a year or two, he'll reach that as long as he keeps improving as we know he will. KP is at max contract worth due to his two way impact. He has the ability to exceed, and the outside chance of far exceeding in my view with experience and not being hampered with injuries.

We as a team need to have better surrounding players by the time Luka and KP reach their full potential to be in that conversation. Otherwise, we need to hope that KP becomes a far exceeding max contract.

[ItsGoTime]

I’m sure from past conversations that you think Gobert is a max player. A lot of people would, even if you don’t. Donovan Mitchell is pretty obvious Lee on his way to being a max player. If those to continue to be the two best players on the jazz, I doubt they will ever come even remotely close to contending for a championship. Luka and KP are way closer. Throw Luka into that Utah mix, somehow, without losing Mitchell, and all of a sudden you’ve really got something with Gobert.

Hmmmm, in order for me to put Gobert in the max contract worth I'd have to watch more of his game cause the easy things to figure it out are the things that get people to notice, and people notice Gobert when they're giving out DPotY awards mostly. That's not fully true, cause his blocks get a good amount of ESPN air time. 

The question to ask for Gobert to be able to reach max contract status is if he can impact the game anytime he steps on the court. If your team has a coach that can put a scheme around Gobert that keeps him in the game in crunch time, then he is absolutely a max contract guy. If not, then nope.

I think there is risk involved with going after Gobert for this team. But if they did get him, I wouldn't be upset and can see a way that it could probably work too. Now, would his impact here be max worthy? Not sure about that. To be honest, probably not. Then again, max worthy is all about how much your owner is willing to spend as well. If Mark keeps the pocketbook open with Gobert onboard, then who am I to tell him no.