#18 PICK: Josh Green | 6' 5.5" | 6' 9.75" wingspan

[cow]

https://twitter.com/dallasmavs/status/13...1346489347

That might be a hint at the long term plan for Josh Richardson.

[KillerLeft]

Funny that when interviewed after round 1, he said he would be wearing number zero...then the Richardson trade happened.

[donzingis38]

He has all the tools but I would prefer a guy that at least can pass with his off hand. I don´t think I saw a single left handed finish from him in the highlight tapes.

You're nitpicking. He's a fine player at #18. Even the players before him have flaws and not sure-fire to make their teams.

[Mapka]

I  really don´t see any similarities between Anderson and Green. Green is a SG with great lateral quickness and top speed. Anderson was more of a SF/PF with strength and leaping ability.

That's because there aren't any.  It's a super lazy take made by people who were upset they passed on Bey and took Green instead.

I guarantee that if Bey was gone, there would have been more love for this pick.

S.Bey being on the board makes me love this pick.

After all the draft coverage I was nearly sure we would pick Green because he was the last 3&D guy left.
As the Mavs take him, not because they have no choice but because they want to take him, makes my heart warm.

And I was hoping S.Bey would drop, because he is extremely solid.

[dirkfansince1998]

He has all the tools but I would prefer a guy that at least can pass with his off hand. I don´t think I saw a single left handed finish from him in the highlight tapes.

You're nitpicking. He's a fine player at #18. Even the players before him have flaws and not sure-fire to make their teams.

That´s true. But I don´t think he is as NBA ready as RC is trying to sell us. I pointed it out because it is easily exploited by any NBA defense and one of the most common reasons why prospects don´t make it in the NBA.
The Mavs picked the high upside athlet that has a lot to learn before he can make an impact. That´s why it is easy to imagine that a guy like Terry will get more minutes this season.

[Dundalis]

He has all the tools but I would prefer a guy that at least can pass with his off hand. I don´t think I saw a single left handed finish from him in the highlight tapes.

You're nitpicking. He's a fine player at #18. Even the players before him have flaws and not sure-fire to make their teams.

That´s true. But I don´t think he is as NBA ready as RC is trying to sell us. I pointed it out because it is easily exploited by any NBA defense and one of the most common reasons why prospects don´t make it in the NBA.
The Mavs picked the high upside athlet that has a lot to learn before he can make an impact. That´s why it is easy to imagine that a guy like Terry will get more minutes this season.

Because he can't finish with his left hand at 20? As mentioned, if his role is simply to play 15-20 mins a game off the bench his first season and just hit open 3's and play defense, I don't see how that weakness affects his ability to contribute the way RC will likely use him right away. Even top 10 picks are supposed to have weaknesses (plenty of much higher draft picks than Green have taken years to be any good finishing at the rim at all, much less with their weaker hand). This kid was pick 18 in a weak draft. He has elite athleticism, length and motor, and is much younger than the prospects most people wanted picked over him. You are picking at his game like he was a top 10 lottery pick. Non lottery picks are not even supposed to contribute much of anything their first season in the NBA, but on this team in the role he will be given, he has as good a chance as any.

Terry was a great pick and may or may not play more minutes, but Richardson is the only guy on this team with the tools to guard 1-3 like Green has the ability to.

[LukasBestFriendForeverTonyT]

I agree he’s not “nba ready” but I still think Carlisle saying that is a positive sign. If Carlisle is willing to say that, it probably means he’ll get minutes if he’s earned it. As opposed to just throwing a player out there for developmental reasons.

The best case scenario for him is probably josh Jacksons minutes, who at the start of the last season we were asking Cuban if JJ could be a starter.

These things seem to be fluid outside of the top 7 guys right now. So if Josh Green can crack that ‘2nd rotation’ - that would be huge.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

He's a good athlete and the Mavs like his attitude.  Decent prospect for the future.

But his current game is pretty underwhelming.  I'd be shocked if he plays major (15-20) rotation minutes right away.  We're in trouble if he does.

Fans get all pissy and try to defend everything their team does even if no one liked the player before their team picked him.  (although there are a couple guys here that liked him before the draft)

The nitpicking some of us are doing is that he's neither a polished 3 and D guy or a guy that has a super high ceiling.  You basically drafted a project role player. It's not a big deal at 18 but no need to hype him up.  If you told me he was our pick before the draft, I would have rather tried to package 18 in a trade.

[dirkfansince1998]

He has all the tools but I would prefer a guy that at least can pass with his off hand. I don´t think I saw a single left handed finish from him in the highlight tapes.

You're nitpicking. He's a fine player at #18. Even the players before him have flaws and not sure-fire to make their teams.

That´s true. But I don´t think he is as NBA ready as RC is trying to sell us. I pointed it out because it is easily exploited by any NBA defense and one of the most common reasons why prospects don´t make it in the NBA.
The Mavs picked the high upside athlet that has a lot to learn before he can make an impact. That´s why it is easy to imagine that a guy like Terry will get more minutes this season.

Because he can't finish with his left hand at 20? As mentioned, if his role is simply to play 15-20 mins a game off the bench his first season and just hit open 3's and play defense, I don't see how that weakness affects his ability to contribute the way RC will likely use him right away. Even top 10 picks are supposed to have weaknesses (plenty of much higher draft picks than Green have taken years to be any good finishing at the rim at all, much less with their weaker hand). This kid was pick 18 in a weak draft. He has elite athleticism, length and motor, and is much younger than the prospects most people wanted picked over him. You are picking at his game like he was a top 10 lottery pick. Non lottery picks are not even supposed to contribute much of anything their first season in the NBA, but on this team in the role he will be given, he has as good a chance as any.

Take a breather and don´t get emotionally invested in any of the picks. I hope it is not the case but they might get traded without even playing for the Mavs.
I didn´t even say that he is a bad pick. Just that according to all scouting reports and the tape that I have seen he basically doesn´t use his left hand. That´s not a good thing if the Mavs want him to contribute this year.

I don´t know why but it is the same story every single year. Hype up the current Mavs pick and ask for him to be traded or waived in 3 years. Justin Anderson, Shane Larkin, AJ Hammons, Isaiah Roby or DSJ. And that´s just in the last few years. For whatever reason fans go through the same cycle every single time.

That said. I like Green. Maybe I prefered someone else but as I already stated (and you repeated) he has more upside than most guys in this years draft class. Elite athleticism and length for a SG. I just don´t think that he is as NBA ready as some other posters think. In my opinion Terry is more likely to get playing time this year.

[juanc]

As far as I remember there are 2 sides on the floor. And I think that Josh is definitely NBA ready on 1 side.

[Dundalis]

He has all the tools but I would prefer a guy that at least can pass with his off hand. I don´t think I saw a single left handed finish from him in the highlight tapes.

You're nitpicking. He's a fine player at #18. Even the players before him have flaws and not sure-fire to make their teams.

That´s true. But I don´t think he is as NBA ready as RC is trying to sell us. I pointed it out because it is easily exploited by any NBA defense and one of the most common reasons why prospects don´t make it in the NBA.
The Mavs picked the high upside athlet that has a lot to learn before he can make an impact. That´s why it is easy to imagine that a guy like Terry will get more minutes this season.

Because he can't finish with his left hand at 20? As mentioned, if his role is simply to play 15-20 mins a game off the bench his first season and just hit open 3's and play defense, I don't see how that weakness affects his ability to contribute the way RC will likely use him right away. Even top 10 picks are supposed to have weaknesses (plenty of much higher draft picks than Green have taken years to be any good finishing at the rim at all, much less with their weaker hand). This kid was pick 18 in a weak draft. He has elite athleticism, length and motor, and is much younger than the prospects most people wanted picked over him. You are picking at his game like he was a top 10 lottery pick. Non lottery picks are not even supposed to contribute much of anything their first season in the NBA, but on this team in the role he will be given, he has as good a chance as any.

Take a breather and don´t get emotionally invested in any of the picks. I hope it is not the case but they might get traded without even playing for the Mavs.
I didn´t even say that he is a bad pick. Just that according to all scouting reports and the tape that I have seen he basically doesn´t use his left hand. That´s not a good thing if the Mavs want him to contribute this year.

I don´t know why but it is the same story every single year. Hype up the current Mavs pick and ask for him to be traded or waived in 3 years. Justin Anderson, Shane Larkin, AJ Hammons, Isaiah Roby or DSJ. And that´s just in the last few years. For whatever reason fans go through the same cycle every single time.

That said. I like Green. Maybe I prefered someone else but as I already stated (and you repeated) he has more upside than most guys in this years draft class. Elite athleticism and length for a SG. I just don´t think that he is as NBA ready as some other posters think. In my opinion Terry is more likely to get playing time this year.

I actually don't care if they get traded in the right deal. I've been banging on about the garbage job the FO has done at picking up either draft pick capital or talented young players that are critical trade pieces when trade opportunities come up for star players.

My point was solely that your criticism of a specific part of his game has zero to do with whether he can be the contributor RC stated he can be his first season, in the role he will be used in. Nothing emotional about it, just a statement why I don't think it's true. Others have already mentioned DFS didn't even get a green light to put the ball on the floor until last season (and it still was something you did not want to see him do). Also his shooting really improved as the season went on. He also shot 78% from the FT line, which is better than Saddiq Bey and always been regarded as a better indicator of shooting ability than 3pt % at college level.

[Fuerza1]

Green has quick feet and was fearless on defense so I was surprised to see how "poor" his defensive 1v1 stats were per Synergy but we don't know the sample size and context of those situations. Just something to keep in mind.

Some guys turn into defensive studs in the league where it was the opposite in college such as Murray from the Spurs. 

Defense is all about effort, technique, and the guys around you. I think Green will be fine on that end, it's the 3PT shot that I am more concerned about because that is the only way he sees the floor on a consistent basis. Or else he's just another JJax. 

I think early on he could be somewhere between Brewer and Crowder. 15 mins/game sound about right unless that 3PT shot is locked and loaded year 1.

[dirkfansince1998]

Green has quick feet and was fearless on defense so I was surprised to see how "poor" his defensive 1v1 stats were per Synergy but we don't know the sample size and context of those situations. Just something to keep in mind.

Some guys turn into defensive studs in the league where it was the opposite in college such as Murray from the Spurs. 

Defense is all about effort, technique, and the guys around you. I think Green will be fine on that end, it's the 3PT shot that I am more concerned about because that is the only way he sees the floor on a consistent basis. Or else he's just another JJax. 

I think early on he could be somewhere between Brewer and Crowder. 15 mins/game sound about right unless that 3PT shot is locked and loaded year 1.

Instincts and IQ. Guys like Lowry, CP3, Ingles aren´t elite athlets but great defenders.
If quickness and jumping ability would translate to great defense guys like DeRozan, Westbrook or Wiggins wouldn´t be liabilities.

[Kammrath]

Green has quick feet and was fearless on defense so I was surprised to see how "poor" his defensive 1v1 stats were per Synergy but we don't know the sample size and context of those situations. Just something to keep in mind.

Yeah in my predraft process when I saw his 39th percentile in one on one D I dropped off my "want" list. Not sure what is going on there.

[donzingis38]

He has all the tools but I would prefer a guy that at least can pass with his off hand. I don´t think I saw a single left handed finish from him in the highlight tapes.

You're nitpicking. He's a fine player at #18. Even the players before him have flaws and not sure-fire to make their teams.

That´s true. But I don´t think he is as NBA ready as RC is trying to sell us. I pointed it out because it is easily exploited by any NBA defense and one of the most common reasons why prospects don´t make it in the NBA.
The Mavs picked the high upside athlet that has a lot to learn before he can make an impact. That´s why it is easy to imagine that a guy like Terry will get more minutes this season.

Because he can't finish with his left hand at 20? As mentioned, if his role is simply to play 15-20 mins a game off the bench his first season and just hit open 3's and play defense, I don't see how that weakness affects his ability to contribute the way RC will likely use him right away. Even top 10 picks are supposed to have weaknesses (plenty of much higher draft picks than Green have taken years to be any good finishing at the rim at all, much less with their weaker hand). This kid was pick 18 in a weak draft. He has elite athleticism, length and motor, and is much younger than the prospects most people wanted picked over him. You are picking at his game like he was a top 10 lottery pick. Non lottery picks are not even supposed to contribute much of anything their first season in the NBA, but on this team in the role he will be given, he has as good a chance as any.

Take a breather and don´t get emotionally invested in any of the picks. I hope it is not the case but they might get traded without even playing for the Mavs.
I didn´t even say that he is a bad pick. Just that according to all scouting reports and the tape that I have seen he basically doesn´t use his left hand. That´s not a good thing if the Mavs want him to contribute this year.

I don´t know why but it is the same story every single year. Hype up the current Mavs pick and ask for him to be traded or waived in 3 years. Justin Anderson, Shane Larkin, AJ Hammons, Isaiah Roby or DSJ. And that´s just in the last few years. For whatever reason fans go through the same cycle every single time.

That said. I like Green. Maybe I prefered someone else but as I already stated (and you repeated) he has more upside than most guys in this years draft class. Elite athleticism and length for a SG. I just don´t think that he is as NBA ready as some other posters think. In my opinion Terry is more likely to get playing time this year.

Pretty much every fanbase is the same, though. Excited to see a new face and if it doesn't work out, then see if a trade can be done. It's not really that tiring (at least for me) to keep looking to improve the team every year, especially now in the Luka/KP era.

Also, not saying Green will make the team right away. He obviously has things to work on, but so do the other players before him. This left-hand thing is a bit ridiculous. You can't expect a player that's just been drafted to have it all figured out right out of the gate. Give him time to improve. 

FO is operating a lot more different now too because of Luka. Dallas is not Sacramento, you know? They're not just drafting a random player, they look to draft now with an actual PURPOSE. See who they can surround Luka with and that's a bunch of 3&D players. That's the difference this time. 

Don't get it confused with hyping up. We can't get a Marcus Smart, Covington, Marcus Morris, etc. (yes I know we just got j.rich) so we just have to draft them and raise our own from scratch. This is the best way of building a roster anyway. Sure, it may still not work out but at least they went with BPA at 18 with athleticism, defense and 3pt shooting. A player who does NOT need the ball to be effective. Can't complain about that.

[aguiar95]

You're nitpicking. He's a fine player at #18. Even the players before him have flaws and not sure-fire to make their teams.

That´s true. But I don´t think he is as NBA ready as RC is trying to sell us. I pointed it out because it is easily exploited by any NBA defense and one of the most common reasons why prospects don´t make it in the NBA.
The Mavs picked the high upside athlet that has a lot to learn before he can make an impact. That´s why it is easy to imagine that a guy like Terry will get more minutes this season.

Because he can't finish with his left hand at 20? As mentioned, if his role is simply to play 15-20 mins a game off the bench his first season and just hit open 3's and play defense, I don't see how that weakness affects his ability to contribute the way RC will likely use him right away. Even top 10 picks are supposed to have weaknesses (plenty of much higher draft picks than Green have taken years to be any good finishing at the rim at all, much less with their weaker hand). This kid was pick 18 in a weak draft. He has elite athleticism, length and motor, and is much younger than the prospects most people wanted picked over him. You are picking at his game like he was a top 10 lottery pick. Non lottery picks are not even supposed to contribute much of anything their first season in the NBA, but on this team in the role he will be given, he has as good a chance as any.

Take a breather and don´t get emotionally invested in any of the picks. I hope it is not the case but they might get traded without even playing for the Mavs.
I didn´t even say that he is a bad pick. Just that according to all scouting reports and the tape that I have seen he basically doesn´t use his left hand. That´s not a good thing if the Mavs want him to contribute this year.

I don´t know why but it is the same story every single year. Hype up the current Mavs pick and ask for him to be traded or waived in 3 years. Justin Anderson, Shane Larkin, AJ Hammons, Isaiah Roby or DSJ. And that´s just in the last few years. For whatever reason fans go through the same cycle every single time.

That said. I like Green. Maybe I prefered someone else but as I already stated (and you repeated) he has more upside than most guys in this years draft class. Elite athleticism and length for a SG. I just don´t think that he is as NBA ready as some other posters think. In my opinion Terry is more likely to get playing time this year.

Not sure why you guys are bummed about the Green pick. Quick question, have you ever seen DFS/Maxi make a pass with their weak hand? Green's not here to create, he's here to catch-and-shoot 3's and be the on-ball defender (initially as our backup SF, potentially as our starting SF if he develops well). If you want to judge his skills, judge it on his defense (that's what got him here, not his offense). Anything he develops on offense is a huge plus. His defense is absolutely NBA ready.

[jesusshuttlesworth82]

You're nitpicking. He's a fine player at #18. Even the players before him have flaws and not sure-fire to make their teams.

That´s true. But I don´t think he is as NBA ready as RC is trying to sell us. I pointed it out because it is easily exploited by any NBA defense and one of the most common reasons why prospects don´t make it in the NBA.
The Mavs picked the high upside athlet that has a lot to learn before he can make an impact. That´s why it is easy to imagine that a guy like Terry will get more minutes this season.

Because he can't finish with his left hand at 20? As mentioned, if his role is simply to play 15-20 mins a game off the bench his first season and just hit open 3's and play defense, I don't see how that weakness affects his ability to contribute the way RC will likely use him right away. Even top 10 picks are supposed to have weaknesses (plenty of much higher draft picks than Green have taken years to be any good finishing at the rim at all, much less with their weaker hand). This kid was pick 18 in a weak draft. He has elite athleticism, length and motor, and is much younger than the prospects most people wanted picked over him. You are picking at his game like he was a top 10 lottery pick. Non lottery picks are not even supposed to contribute much of anything their first season in the NBA, but on this team in the role he will be given, he has as good a chance as any.

Take a breather and don´t get emotionally invested in any of the picks. I hope it is not the case but they might get traded without even playing for the Mavs.
I didn´t even say that he is a bad pick. Just that according to all scouting reports and the tape that I have seen he basically doesn´t use his left hand. That´s not a good thing if the Mavs want him to contribute this year.

I don´t know why but it is the same story every single year. Hype up the current Mavs pick and ask for him to be traded or waived in 3 years. Justin Anderson, Shane Larkin, AJ Hammons, Isaiah Roby or DSJ. And that´s just in the last few years. For whatever reason fans go through the same cycle every single time.

That said. I like Green. Maybe I prefered someone else but as I already stated (and you repeated) he has more upside than most guys in this years draft class. Elite athleticism and length for a SG. I just don´t think that he is as NBA ready as some other posters think. In my opinion Terry is more likely to get playing time this year.

Not sure why you guys are bummed about the Green pick. Quick question, have you ever seen DFS/Maxi make a pass with their weak hand? 

DFS and Maxi weren't mid first round picks.

[Kammrath]

Interesting analysis here:

http://tothemean.com/2020/11/14/nba-draft-2020.html

According to it the Mavs draft picks were ranked....

13) Tyrell Terry -- 62% bust, 22% role player, 13% starter, 1% star
37) Tyler Bey -- 75% bust, 9% role player, 14% starter
50) Josh Green -- 77% bust, 14% role player, 7% starter

TBey has the highest chance to become a starter, Tyrell is the only one who might become a star, and over 60% chance all of them are busts.

Note: SBey is 71% bust, 24% role player, 3% starter and is ranked #51. Killian is the top ranked prospect and Vassell is the 2nd most likely to be an NBA starter.

There is a lot in this I like and rings intuitively true, a lot that befuddles me.

[burekemde]

Interesting analysis here:

http://tothemean.com/2020/11/14/nba-draft-2020.html

According to it the Mavs draft picks were ranked....

13) Tyrell Terry -- 62% bust, 22% role player, 13% starter, 1% star
37) Tyler Bey -- 75% bust, 9% role player, 14% starter
50) Josh Green -- 77% bust, 14% role player, 7% starter

TBey has the highest chance to become a starter, Tyrell is the only one who might become a star, and over 60% chance all of them are busts.

Note: SBey is 71% bust, 24% role player, 3% starter and is ranked #51. Killian is the top ranked prospect and Vassell is the 2nd most likely to be an NBA starter.

There is a lot in this I like and rings intuitively true, a lot that befuddles me.

'

how did this do in the previous years? Maybe the site's algorithm is a bust in it self?

[SleepingHero]

how did this do in the previous years? Maybe the site's algorithm is a bust in it self?

http://tothemean.com/2018/06/10/nba-draft-2018.html


Here's 2018.

Luka's percentages- 24% to bust/25% to be a role player/35% to start/15% to be a star. 

Conversely they had Wendell Carter Jr with the highest percentage to be a star at 41%