THJ is terrible and these MAVs will be swept by the Clippers

[ClutchDirk]

https://twitter.com/bobbykaralla/status/...3374369792

https://twitter.com/therealmikekb/status...2032664577

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https://twitter.com/Bballforeverfb/statu...8456729601

[JamesConway]

Delon wasn't great either, but he's at least available to play with decent stats

You can't watch a game and say that Delon is horrible on offense and no where near a difference maker on defense. I don't care what stats say. He is killing our offense by not taking open shots.

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THJ + DFS don’t stand a chance against Leonard and George.

Perhaps DFS could go against George, but THJ was certainly just overpowered. It would take a bigger body for Kawhi. I would try Maxi or Luka. I am worried how Seth will be able to play against this big team

Delon is a MLE-caliber player. Those dudes tend to look shitty at times, Seth and Maxi do so here & there as well. At the same time he's like what Devin used to be in his second stint here, just a bigger, better version of that. A quick guard who is probably at his best alongside other ballhandlers and plays better defense than the the rest of the army of unathletic 6'2-or-smaller guards we have. 

I'm not argueing that he's outperforming his deal by a large margin but I'm pretty confident in saying that it shouldn't be overly difficult to dump his contract when needed to. Maybe you gotta add a mid 2nd but certainly nothing of great value. He's too productive & durable to be much of an issue.

[FunkBoreland]

As much as I want to THJ to be bench, I get the feeling his going to step up big in the playoffs.

His had cold spells but he usually practices hard to get back in shooting form. X-Factor is if he hits his 3 pointers above 50% and plays smart defense, that could pivot Dallas out of the 1st round.

[Playmaker]

Another terrible game by THJ, missing wide open looks

[StepBackJay]

Delon wasn't great either, but he's at least available to play with decent stats

You can't watch a game and say that Delon is horrible on offense and no where near a difference maker on defense. I don't care what stats say. He is killing our offense by not taking open shots.

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THJ + DFS don’t stand a chance against Leonard and George.

Perhaps DFS could go against George, but THJ was certainly just overpowered. It would take a bigger body for Kawhi. I would try Maxi or Luka. I am worried how Seth will be able to play against this big team

Delon is a MLE-caliber player. Those dudes tend to look shitty at times, Seth and Maxi do so here & there as well. At the same time he's like what Devin used to be in his second stint here, just a bigger, better version of that. A quick guard who is probably at his best alongside other ballhandlers and plays better defense than the the rest of the army of unathletic 6'2-or-smaller guards we have. 

I'm not argueing that he's outperforming his deal by a large margin but I'm pretty confident in saying that it shouldn't be overly difficult to dump his contract when needed to. Maybe you gotta add a mid 2nd but certainly nothing of great value. He's too productive & durable to be much of an issue.

I agree Delon is fine as an MLE-level player altho we were hoping for more than that and his fit isn't great. I have a hard time picturing him on this team going forward. Donnie thought Wright would be in the starting guard spot next to Luka, adding defense along with playmaking. It just hasn't materialized and he isn't amazing off the bench either. He does flash from time to time but overall he's been a disappointment. He might be a little overpaid but not terrible. I think a lot of it is that he doesn't fit well in Rick's system. I imagine Wright would do better in a system where he gets to hold the ball more and make plays, perhaps off the bench. Here there is a lot of ball movement so you have to figure out what to do off-ball.

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https://twitter.com/bobbykaralla/status/...3374369792

https://twitter.com/therealmikekb/status...2032664577

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https://twitter.com/Bballforeverfb/statu...8456729601

Remember our genius GM's passed on TJ Warren who Phoenix was just giving away for nothing on draft night. Another genius MBT move was not even tire-kicking Malcolm Brogdon who would have made the Mavs a legit contender this year.

[Jannemann2]

Remember our genius GM's passed on TJ Warren who Phoenix was just giving away for nothing on draft night. Another genius MBT move was not even tire-kicking Malcolm Brogdon who would have made the Mavs a legit contender this year.

Difficult to measure the GMs success through the players he didn't get - these will will always be plentiful as multiple teams are interested in the better players but only one can get them.

As far as I understood from one of the others threads, we didn't pass on Warren, but Phoenix liked the Pacers offer better than the Mavs one.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Remember our genius GM's passed on TJ Warren who Phoenix was just giving away for nothing on draft night.  

If this is going to be our new front office criticism, lets at least get the facts straight.  The deal was agreed to the afternoon of 6/20...before the draft.  Dallas DID make an offer.  In fact, probably the best offer Phoenix had.  An expiring contract (probably Lee) plus a second rounder.  They did not "pass" on anything.

Indy was willing to eat the contract outright using up cap space.  Dallas wasn't willing to go there.  They were still in play for Walker.  None of us know for sure what Plans B, C and D might have been.  They were close to some kind of deal with Miami.  They were close on Green.  Who knows what else.  I think Indy and Dallas were in similar situations last summer.  Dallas shot for the stars and Indy settled for the moon.  In hindsight, the moon worked out better.  But, let's not pretend Dallas passed on something.  They made a good effort and got beat.  Teams don't get to just make deals because they want to.  It is a very competitive landscape.

[StepBackJay]

Mavs brass also could have also picked up a pick trading for Mo Harkless. Its a results business and they came away with Curry and Wright as their FA haul despite having a ton of cap space. As much as I like Curry, Mavs lost out on trade dumps, and didn't seem interested in 2 of the bigger FA additions, Brogdon and Bogdanovic. We put all our eggs in two role players: Green and Beverley for some reason while not seriously pursuing real difference makers.

[DanSchwartzgan]

We put all our eggs in two role players: Green and Beverley for some reason while not seriously pursuing real difference makers.

Again, a mis-characterization of what happened.  Green/Beverley were at least plan C if not D or E.  We know with certainty they tried for Walker and were inches from a deal with Miami.  Warren is in no way related to efforts for Green and Beverley as they came much later in the process.

[omahen]

In fact, probably the best offer Phoenix had

Obviously not, because Phoenix chose another offer...

As far as FO criticism. They had to settle for plan F. This can never be called a successful offseason. 

1. Again they bet everything on a star (Kemba), which didn't happen. They lost Warren because of that. Phoenix wanted cap space so there is no way our offer can be considered as better. Even Phoenix is not that stupid to take Lee contract for Warren and be satisfied with a second rounder as compensation. Like if Dallas would be looking for two max slots last summer and (for example) Charlotte offered expiring Biyombo and a second rounder for THJ. It wouldn't help us a bit.
2. When other teams were frantically signing most of available free agents, Mavs almost made a deal with Miami. Almost...
3. As a consolation, Mavs signed a couple of role players, even paid 2 second rounders for one of them and waited like a schoolboy for a date (Green) that never showed up, because she went on a date with the team quaterback. In the meantime, Phoenix gifted Melton and a second rounder to Memphis to take Jackson contract. Many here would like both of them here.

30 million of cap space got us two role players (for a prcie of two second rounders) and a trully nice guy that we don't play anyway. Arguably best offseason moves were Kleber and DFS contracts. Whenever I get remembered about our offseason it pisses me off big time.

[DanSchwartzgan]

In fact, probably the best offer Phoenix had

Obviously not, because Phoenix chose another offer...

As far as FO criticism. They had to settle for plan F. This can never be called a successful offseason. 

1. Again they bet everything on a star (Kemba), which didn't happen. They lost Warren because of that. Phoenix wanted cap space so there is no way our offer can be considered as better. Even Phoenix is not that stupid to take Lee contract for Warren and be satisfied with a second rounder as compensation. Like if Dallas would be looking for two max slots last summer and (for example) Charlotte offered expiring Biyombo and a second rounder for THJ. It wouldn't help us a bit.
2. When other teams were frantically signing most of available free agents, Mavs almost made a deal with Miami. Almost...
3. As a consolation, Mavs signed a couple of role players, even paid 2 second rounders for one of them and waited like a schoolboy for a date (Green) that never showed up, because she went on a date with the team quaterback. In the meantime, Phoenix gifted Melton and a second rounder to Memphis to take Jackson contract. Many here would like both of them here.

30 million of cap space got us two role players (for a prcie of two second rounders) and a trully nice guy that we don't play anyway. Arguably best offseason moves were Kleber and DFS contracts. Whenever I get remembered about our offseason it pisses me off big time.

No one called it a successful off-season.  That is just a straw man.  You can’t put words in someone’s mouth, obliterate your made up argument and declare you are right. 

Our offer for Warren was the best Phoenix had UNTIL Indy came along.  Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

Edit:  Let’s get back to the origins of the conversation.  SBJ said our genius GM’s “Passed” on Warren.  That simply isn’t true.  Once we establish that, the question becomes whether Dallas should have been willing to do what Indy was willing to do...eat $10mm worth of cap room 10 days before free agency began.  That is really the argument anyone saying we should have gotten Warren is making.  I think you can make good point on both sides of that.  But, you have to do it using what you knew in real time (not with 20-20 hindsight).

We don’t know what Dallas knew or believed the afternoon of the 20th, so it is hard to put ourselves in their shoes.  There was a moment when we were rumored to be front runners for your guy Horford.  If I told you on the 20th there was a shot at Horford, would you still be upset (again in real time) about passing on Warren?

[JamesConway]

In fact, probably the best offer Phoenix had

Obviously not, because Phoenix chose another offer...

As far as FO criticism. They had to settle for plan F. This can never be called a successful offseason. 

1. Again they bet everything on a star (Kemba), which didn't happen. They lost Warren because of that. Phoenix wanted cap space so there is no way our offer can be considered as better. Even Phoenix is not that stupid to take Lee contract for Warren and be satisfied with a second rounder as compensation. Like if Dallas would be looking for two max slots last summer and (for example) Charlotte offered expiring Biyombo and a second rounder for THJ. It wouldn't help us a bit.
2. When other teams were frantically signing most of available free agents, Mavs almost made a deal with Miami. Almost...
3. As a consolation, Mavs signed a couple of role players, even paid 2 second rounders for one of them and waited like a schoolboy for a date (Green) that never showed up, because she went on a date with the team quaterback. In the meantime, Phoenix gifted Melton and a second rounder to Memphis to take Jackson contract. Many here would like both of them here.

30 million of cap space got us two role players (for a prcie of two second rounders) and a trully nice guy that we don't play anyway. Arguably best offseason moves were Kleber and DFS contracts. Whenever I get remembered about our offseason it pisses me off big time.

No one called it a successful off-season.  That is just a straw man.  You can’t put words in someone’s mouth, obliterate your made up argument and declare you are right. 

Our offer for Warren was the best Phoenix had UNTIL Indy came along.  Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

Edit:  Let’s get back to the origins of the conversation.  SBJ said our genius GM’s “Passed” on Warren.  That simply isn’t true.  Once we establish that, the question becomes whether Dallas should have been willing to do what Indy was willing to do...eat $10mm worth of cap room 10 days before free agency began.  That is really the argument anyone saying we should have gotten Warren is making.  I think you can make good point on both sides of that.  But, you have to do it using what you knew in real time (not with 20-20 hindsight).

We don’t know what Dallas knew or believed the afternoon of the 20th, so it is hard to put ourselves in their shoes.  There was a moment when we were rumored to be front runners for your guy Horford.  If I told you on the 20th there was a shot at Horford, would you still be upset (again in real time) about passing on Warren?

I would have preferred Warren (Horford never made much sense to me alongside KP) and a bunch of other things over what we ultimately got that offseason. Looking back we just ended up with too little in comparison to what could have been.

Stuff like:
- not going after Warren enough
- not taking on Iggy or Harkless attached with a 1st for caproom
were blunders Imo on the acquisition side. Even more so considering that we reportedly chased Iggy later on.

Then you had the premature Powell-extension which entirely neglected the market value of non shooting bigs in the NBA, which is probably the most team-friendly position/role to fill nowadays. To this day I'd like to know why they drowned DP in all that money, I criticized the deal for weeks back then.

Another questionable decision was the KP player option. That thing might have serious consequences big picture-wise in a few years.

They got the big moves right before the 2019 FA summer with the trades for KP & Luka but most of the smaller moves/actions weren't nearly as succesful. Personally I have the offseason itself a pretty awful grade at the time. It doesn't look much better now.

[omahen]

No one called it a successful off-season.

Plenty of people did, I didn't say you did. Just mentioning the 2019 offseason brings back my pain   We would be so much better with another wing, even if mediocre one. 

If I told you on the 20th there was a shot at Horford, would you still be upset (again in real time) about passing on Warren?

Yes, I would be. If we would took Warren I would gladly pay a couple of second rounders to free cap space for Horford by dumping Lee, perhaps even dumping Jackson would be enough - I don't remember the exact numbers anymore. And having a shot is not same as to be certain. Obviously I don't know how certain Mavs were Kemba will sign, but it didn't work out. Example - getting Warren and Brogdon would be same quality offseason as getting Kemba imho. If not better. Mediocre (at that time) Miami without any cap space signed Butler... This is stuff we are always writing about. Worry about how to free cap space once the star really commits. Not save a gazillion of cap space to come away empty handed. That is an immediate F offseason in my book. Especially since Mavs made this same mistake several seasons after 2011. 

Then you had the premature Powell-extension which entirely neglected the market value of non shooting bigs in the NBA

 I wonder if that had something to do with Kemba. I think they have same agent. But yes, this extension was far too big. No way any other team would offer that money to Powell. His agent owes us big time.

Personally I have the offseason itself a pretty awful grade at the time.

A lot of you are Mavs fans longer then I am. I hear about "Donnie magic" all the time. However, outside of Nowitzki, Luka and KP trades, was there any other trade that was really good for Mavs? I think it was more or less a disaster from team building perspective from 2011 to 2017. Than Luka and KP happened, the rest was bad.

[FunkBoreland]

Timmy had a great game today. Knew he break his slump. 

On FG's 11 of 15 made, however, 3 of 6 of them were 3 pointers. 

Which means most of his points where driving to the basket or shooting the mid range. 

I like the scorer THJ much more than 3pt chucker THJ.

[Playmaker]

Timmy had a great game today. Knew he break his slump. 

On FG's 11 of 15 made, however, 3 of 6 of them were 3 pointers. 

Which means most of his points where driving to the basket or shooting the mid range. 

I like the scorer THJ much more than 3pt chucker THJ.

Yes, leave it to THJ to score on G league level talent when the Mavs could have used a loss to secure a better Draft pick.   

Congrats THJ on the break out game against the Utah G league team.

[luka_skywalker_77]

Timmy had a great game today. Knew he break his slump. 

On FG's 11 of 15 made, however, 3 of 6 of them were 3 pointers. 

Which means most of his points where driving to the basket or shooting the mid range. 

I like the scorer THJ much more than 3pt chucker THJ.

Yes, leave it to THJ to score on G league level talent when the Mavs could have used a loss to secure a better Draft pick.   

Congrats THJ on the break out game against the Utah G league team.

Why are you acting as if he's not capable? Doesn't matter if its against scrubs or whatever. Honestly, I'm not even sure what it is you want--the guy broke out of a slump and you're concerned about against who it occurred? 

[khaled1987]

A lot of you are Mavs fans longer then I am. I hear about "Donnie magic" all the time. However, outside of Nowitzki, Luka and KP trades, was there any other trade that was really good for Mavs? I think it was more or less a disaster from team building perspective from 2011 to 2017. Than Luka and KP happened, the rest was bad.

Prior to 2011? Jet for Mavs was great deal, same with Harris to Mavs.
Kidd for Harris wasn't great trade, but eventually it worked for our favor. 
Marion trade was brilliant, Butler/Haywood/Stevenson was great trade too. Tyson to the Mavs was the trade we needed to build the team.
Basically  our 2011 roster was: Kidd/Terry/Stevenson/Marion/Chandler/Haywood all came from trades between 2004 and 2010. Add Dirk and our undrafted project Barea and all the roster was constructed by Donnie 

Between 2011 & 2017 there were decent deals,but nothing franchise changing. 
We got Chandler (again), Calderon, Ellis, Mayo, Collison, Barnes Jameer Nelson for very little. We sucked at free agency and we were disaster in draft (passing on likes of Butler,Draymond Green,Fournier, Giannis in 3 consecutive drafts) and  Mitchel and Adebayo in 2017 draft. Best we got for passing on those players was Crowder whom we then traded for Rondo. We got lucky that Powell developed well with us. 

To their credit, we also developed undrafted players like DFS and Maxi into good rotation players/starters. 

2019 was back to underwhelming off-season. You can always say in they had a plan and that is the reason for not doing X or Y moves. But at the end every team that sucked thought they were making good moves and had a plan. Knicks traded KP because they thought that will make them get 2 of Davis/KD/Kyrie, this doesn't make their move less terrible. 

We will need to up our game, starting from draft night. No need for those " let's save money and acquire 28 future second round picks and pick someone who will be out of the league after 10 games" type of moves. Either draft best available player after good evaluation, or move it for someone ready to contribute. 
Trading down for extra 2nd round picks has been a habit and recipe of disaster.

[DanSchwartzgan]

 

Let’s get back to the origins of the conversation.  SBJ said our genius GM’s “Passed” on Warren.  That simply isn’t true.  Once we establish that, the question becomes whether Dallas should have been willing to do what Indy was willing to do...eat $10mm worth of cap room 10 days before free agency began.  That is really the argument anyone saying we should have gotten Warren is making.  I think you can make good point on both sides of that.  But, you have to do it using what you knew in real time (not with 20-20 hindsight).
 

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/8/11/21362544/tj-warren-indiana-pacers-victor-oladipo

Pretty good article on Warren and who he has become (how he has emerged...improved...gotten way better from what he was the year before)

I'm still seeing a lot of complaining about the overall results of the 2019 off-season...which is Warren-ted (see what I did there).  I'm seeing people say anything is better than what they did (probably true).  But, I've not seen a specific argument that says on June 20th Dallas should have abandoned the many possibilities they had (at that time...not knowing what we know now) and given up cap room for Warren.  I'm not defending any aspect of the results of the 2019 off-season.  I'm saying that would have been a tough call to make on June 20th.  

BTW, the article's discussion of Warren's emergence probably means many of us are romanticizing who Warren was a year ago.  So now, not only do you have to have known on June 20th that all your plans would fall apart, but you would have had to know, in advance, that Warren would make this kind of leap.

It is interesting that Indy might have interest in some guard help in exchange for a big.

[omahen]

But, I've not seen a specific argument that says on June 20th Dallas should have abandoned the many possibilities they had

Why would signing Warren abandon "many possibilities"? It just creates new possibilities. There were many other ways to sign Kemba, who I guess was the only max salary guy in play. Hornets did SnT with Boston in the end anyway, so it wasn't that we needed the full cap space... If anything, not grabbing opportunity as Warren shows lack of flexibility. SnT would probably cost us a pick, but Warren + Kemba offseason would be amazing.

known on June 20th that all your plans would fall apart

Plans that didn't materialize anyway  

but you would have had to know, in advance, that Warren would make this kind of leap

I  would be more than happy with "Phoenix" Warren. It was known in 2019 already, that wing is the biggest position of need. Instead we signed two guards and a center. 

That is enough ranting from me, water under the bridge. I have calmed down

[Playmaker]

Timmy had a great game today. Knew he break his slump. 

On FG's 11 of 15 made, however, 3 of 6 of them were 3 pointers. 

Which means most of his points where driving to the basket or shooting the mid range. 

I like the scorer THJ much more than 3pt chucker THJ.

Yes, leave it to THJ to score on G league level talent when the Mavs could have used a loss to secure a better Draft pick.   

Congrats THJ on the break out game against the Utah G league team.

Why are you acting as if he's not capable? Doesn't matter if its against scrubs or whatever. Honestly, I'm not even sure what it is you want--the guy broke out of a slump and you're concerned about against who it occurred? 

Capable of what exactly?  Being a highly overpaid streaky volume shooter?  Yes he's very capable of that.  
 
What I want is for him to make his wide open shots consistently when it truly matters (playoffs, end of game, during key moments in a game, ect).  That's probably a tall order so I will just settle for him not getting a big extension and possibly being moved for a better player.