DoDo on the rise: Who's better than RoCo?

[Scott41theMavs]

I will never accept an intelligence-insulting opinion as a reasonable, conventionally-acceptable opinion. If that makes me a bad poster, so be it. I still like Fif and will enjoy his posts when he isn’t gasl… I mean, shoving intelligence-insulting opinions down my throat.

Why the need to label opinions? And again with the gas-lighting thing. I don't shove opinions down your throat, I type them onto a fan message board.

Actually, several of the opinions that annoyed me were written in direct response to my assertions, calling me out as overly emphatic, etc., when I was most rotundly not.

The "gaslighting" comment was meant as a very strong form of "gimme a break," as in, "you can't expect me to swallow that opinion; you must be putting me on." I accept now from you, Magickian, et al. that it was offensive and over the top, and I apologize for that. It is clear from how they paid Powell that the MBT agrees with you on him, which is far more distressing than anything that you or anyone else types on a message board. The Mavs bid big time against themselves. They gave Powell a contract that none of the other 29 teams would have given him. He essentially has to be traded this year, while he's still a starter, because the Mavs will not be starting him in the near future of Luka-KP contention, and he will have quite negative trade value as an energy bench player. His contract isn't in THJ or Wes territory (partly because simply smaller), but it's not good. It's a mistake almost big enough to cancel out the brilliance of securing DFS for a few years for NBA pennies.

Fif, I like you, and I'm sorry if I got too pushy or even offensive in this exchange. Peace?

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Ok player A is RoCo, player B is DFS


Just taking a guess.

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I'd rather have RoCo than DFS, but I'd really rather have both.

Also this^

DFS is a good player. He's exactly what this team needs. But we need more of what he brings, on more consistency. And that is RoCo.

I don't see why it has to be an either/or scenario. If we had both DFS and RoCo then our wing rotation is set.

RoCo isn't having a stellar year.  He's got a couple of benchings in the 4th qtrs., of recent games.  If you got the Philly version of  RoCo, I'm all in.  He's been hurt a lot in Minny, so I'll give him a pass until he gets completely healthy.

[fifteenth]

Actually, several of the opinions that annoyed me were written in direct response to my assertions, calling me out as overly emphatic, etc., when I was most rotundly not.

The "gaslighting" comment was meant as a very strong form of "gimme a break," as in, "you can't expect me to swallow that opinion; you must be putting me on." I accept now from you, Magickian, et al. that it was offensive and over the top, and I apologize for that. It is clear from how they paid Powell that the MBT agrees with you on him, which is far more distressing than anything that you or anyone else types on a message board. The Mavs bid big time against themselves. They gave Powell a contract that none of the other 29 teams would have given him. He essentially has to be traded this year, while he's still a starter, because the Mavs will not be starting him in the near future of Luka-KP contention, and he will have quite negative trade value as an energy bench player. His contract isn't in THJ or Wes territory (partly because simply smaller), but it's not good. It's a mistake almost big enough to cancel out the brilliance of securing DFS for a few years for NBA pennies.

Fif, I like you, and I'm sorry if I got too pushy or even offensive in this exchange. Peace?

Apology accepted, but is what I should avoid here the act of having an opinion about your opinion? Would you prefer that I not? 

Maybe I shouldn't call an opinion of yours "overly emphatic". Where is the line in high quality discussion between talking about the issues and talking about each other? 

I'm honestly weighing all of this as I type. Is saying that it's "overly emphatic" to say that a player is "obsolutely" something the wrong way to interact, when that's the exact thing I'm trying to disagree with? Is interacting in that way the same thing as typing stuff like "he doesn't have to be dumb" or  "gravely intelligence insulting" or justifying this "gas-lighting" accusation by claiming that I'm "trying to get a completely unfounded and unreasonable opinion to the table of reasonable Mavs-fan opinions"? 

Honest questions here. If I'm claiming you need to do something different, I'm open to the thought that I need to do something different. 

[Scott41theMavs]

trying to get a completely unfounded and unreasonable opinion to the table of reasonable Mavs-fan opinions"? 

Honest questions here. If I'm claiming you need to do something different, I'm open to the thought that I need to do something different. 

No, you're fine. You don't have to parse how you interact with me. It was all my bad. I have spilled a lot of "ink" for a simple difference of opinion.

[Kammrath]

So I really wish people would stop using either word, because they are misused, overused, and typically used by those that seem to have those very qualities themselves.

I still think the disconnect here is:

1) You are wanting to use "narcissism" and "gaslighting" in a strict DSM kind of "diagnostic" sense---if you don't meet all the criteria then don't use the term. This has a place I suppose.

2) I am wanting (as the leading experts are starting to see) to use the terms "narcissism" and "gaslighting" in a spectrum sense, recognizing that at the extreme end there are those who are full-blown diagnose-able and yet there are still MANY, MANY people in our culture who exhibit narcissism and practice gaslighting but do it in a less extreme way that wouldn't meet all the criteria for diagnosis. These less extreme forms still need to be seen, recognized, and identified because they can be very harmful and destructive in people's everyday lives. Gaslighting for instance in small doses (even if it doesn't last for years and doesn't lead someone to actual insanity) is still VERY harmful and manipulative. It is also essential to societal health to recognize how much of an epidemic is going on with these things as well. If we are silent about the narcissism and gaslighting epidemic in our society then they will silently destroy us. 

My final point: Just because terms are misused doesn't mean we shouldn't use them. In fact, I would say it often requires us to use them more frequently and in a proper sense in order to reestablish their sense of meaning.

P.S. Really watch that video by Sam Vaknin I posted. He argues that narcissism is a form of PTSD and therefore depending on the level of trauma it will exhibit itself more or less extreme.

[Kammrath]

But I think allowing such words that have heavy weight and power to them to be denegrated by talks of a "spectrum" completely miss the point of the how powerful these words are. 

And this is what many would have said about "autism" as well before realizing that having a "spectrum" of autism not only does NOT denigrate it but actually enhances its power and ability to relate to everyday life, which is not black/white but is full of grays. 

Again, if you have researched a lot on the subject then PLEASE look into Sam Vaknin.

[Kammrath]

I 100% disagree and would stake my entire experience and career on it.

[Kammrath]

And just for the record, so people know some of my credentials on the subject: 

1) I went to four years of seminary which included many classes on counseling and this specific subject (narcissism is specifically a more prominent issue among pastors and congregations).
2) I have spent years in counseling.
3) I have spent a decade plus doing counseling.
4) I have intimate personal experience with at least three diagnose-able narcissists.
5) I have been in an intimate but non-sexual relationship where I was gaslighted so well for 5 years that I basically had no idea what was going on until the relationship ended in a ball of fire.

[vfromlmf]

Meanwhile ....

Led by Dorian Finney-Smith, Mavericks’ offensive rebounding translating to elite offense

https://theathletic.com/1471482/2019/12/...e-offense/

[ItsGoTime]

I will now start my campaign to gaslight Fifteenth! 


Wait, is that how this is done?

[SleepingHero]

I love how this thread has basically transformed from being a genuine discussion about DFS vs. RoCo into an intense debate about gaslighting.

[iolide]

I will now start my campaign to gaslight Fifteenth! 

I lol'd too much at this.

[ItsGoTime]

I will now start my campaign to gaslight Fifteenth! 

I lol'd too much at this.

Haha. In my head I was imagining a Michael Scott moment when he “declares bankruptcy”.

[fifteenth]

I cried








j/k

[ClutchDirk]

I love how this thread has basically transformed from being a genuine discussion about DFS vs. RoCo into an intense debate about gaslighting.

Community tradition...remember Luka's tattoo...

[ThisIStheYear]

The beginning of this thread actually motivated me to do some quick research because the data provided by the OP seemed insufficient. (For what it’s worth, my conclusion, which the fuller data set very strongly supports, does agree with the OP: take DFS over RoCo for this team; it’s kind of a no brainer honestly.) Skipping to the end, somewhere this thread went awry.  It will be interesting to read through it to find out how a topic about two role players who make a relatively small impact on the fortunes of their teams morphed into a discussion about gaslighting, lol.

[ItsGoTime]

I think it's a lot easier to believe an all-defensive 1st team, career 3% at 35.9% (and in the last 2 years previously at 36.9 and 37.8) would snap back closer to form under much better coaching vs a career 31.1% shooter with good defense and hustle keeps his form, esp since this very same shooting performance happened at the beginning of last year. I hope so much that DFS IS this player, but this would be his first year he has shown to be this player and we still have a ton more games to play.

[vfromlmf]

I hope so much that DFS IS this player, but this would be his first year he has shown to be this player and we still have a ton more games to play.

It's so easy to fall into "grass is greener" situation and assume RoCo is such a huge upgrade simply because he was recognized in the media.

Let's not forget DoDo is still only 26 and really on the rise. We didn't even know if he would start this year. Now he's a lock to start and giving the Mavs most everything they could ask for from a 3D wing. RoCo is 29 and hasn't looked the same since his injury. 

Here's an interesting player evaluation of RoCo when he was 26

Covington in 2016-17
Covington started his season with an awful shooting slump. The fans grew frustrated, booing Covington every time he jacked up a shot. But Covington kept firing and eventually broke out of it. He shot just 28 percent from three during his first 30 games, then found his stroke over the next 37 games, hitting 38 percent.

What stands out the most about Covington is his improvement on the defensive end. He specialized in guarding wings but really guarded four different positions this season. He used his length to be disruptive in passing lanes. He finished fourth in the NBA with 1.9 steals a game. He also averaged a block a game, impressive for a guy who primarily guards wings.


Sound familiar? 

[url=#MFFL @doefinney_10 pic.twitter.com/sah4F9lWqW
— Dallas Mavericks (@dallasmavs) May 20, 2019 ">

DFS appeared in 81 games last season, and was a phenomenal 3-and-D player! Checkout this breakdown of Doe's season. #MFFL @doefinney_10 pic.twitter.com/sah4F9lWqW
— Dallas Mavericks (@dallasmavs) May 20, 2019

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Media recognition for DoDo is coming

[url= The only thing weirder than Matisse Thybulle falling to 20th overall on draft night was Dorian Finney-Smith not getting drafted at all.
[url=December 21, 2019 ">

The only thing weirder than Matisse Thybulle falling to 20th overall on draft night was Dorian Finney-Smith not getting drafted at all.
— Bobby Karalla (@bobbykaralla) December 21, 2019

[ItsGoTime]

RoCo is 29 and hasn't looked the same since his injury. 

I mean, he was barely ready for this season after the injury. Players can have a grace period when they return from injury can't they? If he stays the same throughout the rest of the season, he's still a really good player, just not the great player he's shown to be able to be.

Sound familiar? 

Not really, cause DFS last year and so far this year started off shooting really good, then fell back in the second half of the season. This is saying RoCo started off poor and then finished off hot, going into the playoffs, when it counts the most. I really hope, and kindof starting to think that this is the DoDo we'll see going forward. Biggest reason why is because of how open he is when he gets the ball. But to bet on that being the case, I'd have a hard time doing that (honestly either way, bet on him staying the same/improving or bet on him regressing).

[vfromlmf]

bet on him staying the same/improving or bet on him regressin

No doubt DoDo fits the undrafted, underpaid, hard work, gym-rat, chip-on-his-shoulder mould. 

I bet on those kind of young players to get better, especially when playing with superstars.