TRADE: PJ Washington+ 2 2nds To DAL | G. Williams+ Curry+ 2027 FRP (top 2 protected)

[MFFL]

I did a little research on the Gordon trade.

Gordon was averaging 14.6 points & 6.6 rebounds for the Magic that season.

Washington was averaging 13.6 points & 5.3 rebounds for the Hornets.

Both were 25, both were former lottery picks, and both acquiring teams gave up a 1st round pick. And Gordon also didn't set the world on fire when he was first acquired by the Nuggets.

[mvossman]

The goal is always contention. It was contention five years ago.

You've said all this before, and I understand. I just think the idea of "waiting" has become synonymous with being lazy - at least with this organization. This FO needed to show some creativity and thankfully they did. 

The Mavericks knew what they wanted in their roster and they needed to find a way to get it.

Equating patience with being lazy is an extremely dangerous mindset.  It screams move just to move.  This franchise was narrowly saved from spending significant assets for Kyle Kuzma.

[loki]

I'd have to agree with those that say Charlotte got the better of this deal due to the meager top 2 protection. I think it shifts in the Mavs favor if the pick lands in the 20's. I'm not unhappy the Mavs pulled the trigger though. I don't think their 3 pick package would get anyone much better than PJ in the offseason.

The Kyle Ligma news is definitely disturbing, but I'm just going to pretend this was some kind of negotiating tactic to keep Charlotte from thinking the Mavs were desperate. They nearly traded for Ayton in the offseason too which would have been even more destructive. Nico seems to have a knack for dodging bullets.

[RGP1981]

Why do we keep breaking up so badly with players?  Why can't we just say something diplomatic and part ways?  Is this Luka, Kidd, Cuban or all of the above?  I don't think it's Nico.  I'm confident that's not him.

Why do you think it has anything to do with Luka? Or even Kidd?

And why do you think it has something to do with those three but not with Nico?

Negative statements like those generally come from someone in the Front Office. So I'm asking why you feel those things cause I'm genuinely curious.

FWIW, my money is on Cuban.

[Scott41theMavs]

While somewhat disgusted with PJ's shooting thus far, I know that will come around. What's exciting is that, while criticized as a mediocre defender for several years, it's already evident that that's horsecrap. He's great. He also boxes out, and is *smart.* You know, as opposed to the bonehead we almost traded for. While I'm quite pleased with Gafford, this trade is going to end up being the bigger difference maker.

With THJ slowly being squeezed out (and likely traded this summer), the eight-man rotation is Luka-Kyrie-Exum-Green-PJ-Maxi-Gafford-Lively. Only three of which were here prior to last year's trade deadline.

[surfpuckmd]

Why do you think it has anything to do with Luka? Or even Kidd?

And why do you think it has something to do with those three but not with Nico?

Negative statements like those generally come from someone in the Front Office. So I'm asking why you feel those things cause I'm genuinely curious.

FWIW, my money is on Cuban.

I don't know where it comes from.  It's speculation.  My best guess is Mark Cuban because he is impulsive and runs his mouth like a 14-year year old girl.  No offense to 14-year old girls as I have a 14-year old daughter.  I believe she would understand as she associates with a lot of other 14-year old girls.  

Luka has a temper though that he demonstrates on the court with the officiating protests and sulking.  He is definitely prone to demonstrative arguing and whining. 

Jason Kidd has no filter as he's made myriad inappropriate statements to the media.  He's criticized his players to the press and confessed that he was forced to lose the last 2 games of last season.  I'm not sure I can recall another head coach who was so incompetent at media relations.  I think he has some strengths.  I'd prefer he never speak to the media again though.  

I think they're all loose cannons in one way or another.  Luka is really likeable though and he's still a really young man.

Honestly, though, I don't know why the public backstabbing is necessary.  It makes our organization look bad.  I wish it would stop. 

Nico comes off really well with the media and seems like a remarkably decent and considerate guy.  As he was hired for his personality and relationships in the NBA, I'm presuming he is the least likely culprit on the list of suspects.

[SwisherPrice]

Good trade for both teams and players. Both teams won

[Winter]

Equating patience with being lazy is an extremely dangerous mindset.  It screams move just to move.  This franchise was narrowly saved from spending significant assets for Kyle Kuzma.

I just think there's far too much drama about what the Mavs didn't do rather than what they actually did do. And on top of that, what they didn't do is mostly speculation.

[KillerLeft]

I just think there's far too much drama about what the Mavs didn't do rather than what they actually did do. And on top of that, what they didn't do is mostly speculation.

I feel like other than you and Mvossman, there’s not really any talk about this. Like, at all. You are kind of 50% of why it is still going, nay? Believe me, I have no wish to spend even one more second on Kyle Kuzma, who should never be allowed to suit up uniform. The sooner his ass is in the rearview mirror the better, as far as I’m concerned.

Onward and upward!

[Winter]

I feel like other than you and Mvossman, there’s not really any talk about this. Like, at all. 

There's at least 4 pages on Kuzma in the Trade & FA thread above this one. Several people have posted in it including you and I .

Just for the record, I've never referred to Kuzma. The conversation was largely a carry-over of this idea of "waiting" for the right moment.

[michaeltex]

My biggest issue is just that we usually gladly overpay.  I generally don't think we have been very good at asset management.  I also believe we undervalue draft picks relative to almost every other organization in the NBA.  We trade a lot of draft picks to acquire talent then we pay even more to get rid of those players. We have churned over our roster far quicker than almost any other good team since 2011.  We always seem to be the team giving up picks rather than acquiring them.  I think that's a problem. 

The ironic thing is that the 3 best moves we've made since 2011 have been via the draft.  Luka, Brunson and Lively were all huge hits.  We acquired them with draft picks.  Josh Green and Hardy were really good picks as well.  We've been really good at drafting.  I don't understand why the Mavericks organization seems to hate draft picks so much.  So, we generally don't value the draft even though we're good at it.  Then, we overpay in draft compensation to acquire players then to get rid of them.  

The churn must go on.

I sometimes wonder if the "grow through trades" philosophy doesn't go back to the pre-championship years. That team was (almost?) all acquired through trades and FA signings. Some of it may be the rumored aversion of RC to rookie and rookie development. Some of it may have been to get players on Dirk's timeline. Some of it may have been to get talent proven effective in the pro game (draft picks still are a crap shoot.) Of course, there were some picks that were WTF as soon as they were announced. 

I agree that, starting with JB and Luka, drafting has produced some excellent talent. That may be the cheapest way to grow talent, but trading for vets is more about instant gratification.

[michaeltex]

If the Kent Bazemore angle is true then that was foolish.

I understand the Porzingis deal and I thought it was a good deal at the time.  Porzingis was an emerging star and those are expensive.  In retrospect, some patience would have been much better.  We have not showed patience as an organization though in 20 years.  There is always some new acquisition or trade that is supposed to save us.  I would like to see more emphasis on player development and stability.  We've been good at that when we've bothered to try.

KP was coming off an All Star season, so the expectation was he would get back to that level. But injuries derailed that hope. He's had ongoing health issues since the original injury. Boston really likes what he brings, but they are currently frustrated with his lack of availability. (currently played in 40 of 55 games, which works out to 22 missed games this season)

My biggest frustration was having to give him a max contract before he even had a practice. 

But that's water under the bridge and I really like the feel of DAL with the two new guys, so I'm cautiously optimistic we are on to something ( I know it's only been 3 games). Really looking forward to getting Exum and DL2 fully healthy after the ASG.

[KillerLeft]

There's at least 4 pages on Kuzma in the Trade & FA thread above this one. Several people have posted in it including you and I .

Just for the record, I've never referred to Kuzma. The conversation was largely a carry-over of this idea of "waiting" for the right moment.

lol, but every time you post about this, YOU'RE the one keeping the "drama" going. That's what I'm saying. 

See, now you roped ME into it! Why do you love drama so much??? Why can't we all just enjoy the moves the Mavs DID make?

See what I did there?

[surfpuckmd]

I sometimes wonder if the "grow through trades" philosophy doesn't go back to the pre-championship years. That team was (almost?) all acquired through trades and FA signings. Some of it may be the rumored aversion of RC to rookie and rookie development. Some of it may have been to get players on Dirk's timeline. Some of it may have been to get talent proven effective in the pro game (draft picks still are a crap shoot.) Of course, there were some picks that were WTF as soon as they were announced. 

I agree that, starting with JB and Luka, drafting has produced some excellent talent. That may be the cheapest way to grow talent, but trading for vets is more about instant gratification.

I agree with everything you wrote here.  

I personally enjoy watching the younger players improve.  I watch NBA basketball for fun.  It's obviously fun to win but it's also fun to watch younger players improve with time.  Even if they don't win.  I liked watching the Spurs last night even though they're not good yet.  You can see the beginning of something great there.  I think the Mavs have been too focused on free agency and trades over the past 15 years.  I think most of us on this board probably overemphasize trades and player acquisitions too.  I certainly do.  There's often more conversation here about trade speculation than the games themselves.  

I like our current mix of players.  I'm gonna try to just enjoy the games more.  I'm gonna bow out of the PJ trade conversations and just be a PJ fan for a while.

[SleepingHero]

[Smitty]

https://x.com/sixfivelando/status/175856...07206?s=46&t=4w35gotNXtBJnqxbaL7e9w



Mavs w/ P.J. Washington Jr. on the floor
Offensive Rating: 116.67
Defensive Rating: 90.00
Net Rating: 26.67

Mavs w/ P.J. Washington Jr. off the floor
Offensive Rating: 121.19
Defensive Rating: 110.34
Net Rating: 10.84

[SleepingHero]

My submission for PJs nickname is The Warden. Fits nicely with the jail theme we got going on with him

[Smitty]

PJ article

https://www.dmagazine.com/sports/2024/03...-kidd-nba/

[Smitty]

PJ Washington 31.6 MPG
119.3 ORTG
111.8 DRTG
7.5 NetRTG
+5.3
10.6 PPG / 5.8 REB / 0.9 BLK
40/25/65 shooting splits

Aaron Gordon 31.4 MPG
119.3 ORTG
111.0 DRTG
8.3 NetRTG
+5.7
13.8 PPG / 6.4 REB / 0.6 BLK
56/28/65 shooting splits

Very similar… PJ just needs to start shooting it better. Career shooting splits 45/35/71

[Chicagojk]

PJ Washington 31.6 MPG
119.3 ORTG
111.8 DRTG
7.5 NetRTG
+5.3
10.6 PPG / 5.8 REB / 0.9 BLK
40/25/65 shooting splits

Aaron Gordon 31.4 MPG
119.3 ORTG
111.0 DRTG
8.3 NetRTG
+5.7
13.8 PPG / 6.4 REB / 0.6 BLK
56/28/65 shooting splits

Very similar… PJ just needs to start shooting it better. Career shooting splits 45/35/71

Interesting.  I have been impressed with everything besides shooting.  I have no confidence when he rises up to shoot.   Have you noticed that little bunny hop thing he does when he catches the ball.  I wonder if that is something they try to eliminate.  I have no idea....maybe that is fine.

Gordon has mentioned in the past, but I was thinking the other day what about Shawn Marion.  I had mentioned Dallas had to find their Marion.   Could that be a comparison as well.  Marion fell into a support role but could guard mulitple positions.   Maybe if we could get PJ more touches inside he could score similar ways.   Marion had a nice quick shot in the lane.   PJ has the push shot.   In 2011 Marion was 12.5 points per game on 10 shots per game.  He also averaged 7 rebounds.    Could PJ do this with good defense?   

If so, you can start to see maybe the team morphing into that 2011 team.   They just need another good move and time for the guys to learn to play off each other and be connected.  That usually takes time.