TRADE: Bagley+Livers+2 2nds to WAS | Gallo+Muscala to DET

[Mavs2021]

I think there’s probably a little bias and unintentional comparison to those guys, sure. 

However, the main difference I see between us (I think) is that when a player loses opportunities from multiple teams and is jettisoned from multiple teams, despite a high pedigree and large financial reason to hope he works out, I assume the professionals’ reasoning must be sound, mostly because they’d be crazy not to do everything in their power to make it work. An admission that it’s not going to work and that they have just thrown a lottery pick in the dirt (or whatever they paid in trade to acquire) is a big, big deal. I might be wrong, but it has always seemed to me like you tend to stick with your pre-draft opinion in those situations and assume the fault must be on the teams’ parts. 

And for the record, it probably is like that (team’s fault) sometimes. But, I bet it’s the other way more often. Sometimes, a player’s physical ability just isn’t the thing that matters on the bottom line. Sometimes, their personalities are just not work-aroundable.

 
Even if everything you say is true, it would still have been smarter to just waive him and eat the $12.5M for next year. This deal is Javale McGee levels of stupid.

[KillerLeft]

Christian Wood comparison?

Sure, that's another example. 

A little different, because he came from nowhere, relative to someone going #2 overall. Meaning, the "learning as he goes, rough around the edges" was sort of implied with him from the jump as something he was hopefully growing out of. Having said that, Wood is an example both proving and disproving the Bagley point, in my view. 

He's similar in that every time he comes up or moves to a new team, there are fans convinced that he's about to break out if/when he gets the right chance, and so far, every one of those fans (if they're honest) ends up having to admit that there's something that just doesn't work with him. I wanted the Mavs to sign him when he was first free and signed in Houston. I was excited when the Mavs traded for him. I still believe the coach could've done some things differently to give him a slightly better chance of succeeding, but ultimately, it's clear it wasn't going to succeed, and I suspect it's mostly about "behind the scenes uber-annoyingness" with a pinch of "refuses to buy into the role he's given"...regardless, it's on HIM at the end of the day. There's always someone waiting to take your spot and your opportunity in the NBA. 

He's different than Bagley in that even now, amidst another season on yet another team wherein he's being yo-yo'd in and out of the rotation with a HUGE number of DNP-coach's decisions, there are still some respectable basketball minds out there pointing out data in certain lineup groups in which he seems to be quite a positive, making the case that he should play. I'm not saying they're right, but they exist. I literally cannot remember the last time I read anything from anyone real that was remotely positive about Marvin Bagley II. Idk, maybe I'm just missing it.

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Even if everything you say is true, it would still have been smarter to just waive him and eat the $12.5M for next year. This deal is Javale McGee levels of stupid.

Fair enough. I haven't popped the hood on the trade much, and I'm definitely not wanting to vouch for Detroit's front office in a general sense.

[KillerLeft]

Holinger agrees with you, @Mavs2021:

https://x.com/johnhollinger/status/17465...78509?s=20

[dirkfansince1998]

Holinger agrees with you, @Mavs2021:

https://x.com/johnhollinger/status/17465...78509?s=20

That's the Delon Wright saga...

[mvossman]

That's the Delon Wright saga...

That was different. He was restricted. The first seconds were to avoid matching. There was some reason to think he would turn out, but it didn’t work out. It was a miss, but nowhere near this level of incompetence.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Holinger agrees with you, @Mavs2021:

https://x.com/johnhollinger/status/17465...78509?s=20

https://youtu.be/cQoh2pFkNVs?si=xv6ERnUWevnOCMuB


Marks has about a 13 minutes video where he talks about the trade and the outlook for both teams.

To answer my question, he doesn’t know why Washington would trade Kuzma or Gafford.  You eventually have to have players and both are playing well on very good contracts.  He sees them selling expiring Jones and maybe Wright.  Getting an expiring guy now instead of waiting til the summer has even more value under the new CBA if you are a second apron team and want to keep that player (he suggests Jones to Miami or Minnesota.

He said you don’t pay to move on from Bagley if you are Detroit unless you have a plan for the cap room created.  The plan could be for this summer or could be before the TDL.  He asked if expiring Burks and expiring Morris might be a swap for Wiggins where Detroit gets something for taking that on.  They have other big expiring deals like Harris, Wiseman and Hayes and the two new guys are expiring, but can’t be aggregated.

If it were up to Marks, the guys some of us think of in terms of trade targets are probably not getting moved, but both teams (expiring for Detroit and TPE for Washington) might be salary dump candidates.

[KillerLeft]

To answer my question, he doesn’t know why Washington would trade Kuzma or Gafford. 

I didn't "ugh" because of your question, to be clear. It was a good one. 

I "ughed" because I can't bear even the thought of having to watch Kyle Kuzma play basketball in a Dallas Mavericks uniform.

[DanSchwartzgan]

The reporting tonight is that this was done in such a way that Washington retains their $12.3mm TPE from the KP trade (which is large enough to acquire Holmes or GWill).

[Reunion Mav]

I didn't "ugh" because of your question, to be clear. It was a good one. 

I "ughed" because I can't bear even the thought of having to watch Kyle Kuzma play basketball in a Dallas Mavericks uniform.

I want to like this twice.

[Chicagojk]

I like the gamble for Washington. They are in a multi year rebuild with very few guys who will be around in 2-3 years from now. Just take chances on guys. I thought Bagley was going to be a really good pro. He has enough time and enough teams to think that is not in the cards. But he is still young. Can you make him into an attractive good bench player for a good team? I actually though Livers was going to be a nice 3 and D bench player. He just forgot to shoot this year. I would be fine taking gambles on either. Plus they got second round picks.

If Detroit wants to get seconds back, I would be glad to send them two and one of our guys for Bogdanovich.