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The Pistons and Wizards are finalizing a deal to trade Marvin Bagley, Isaiah Livers, and two second-round picks for forward Danillo Gallinari and Mike Muscala, sources tell ESPN
Detroit paid 2 SRPs to get rid of Bagley $12.5M salary next season.
Shocked that Detroit paid to get off of Bagley's deal a year after giving it to him.
I feel bad for Gallinari and Muscala having to now play on the Pistons. I feel bad for Bagley and Livers having to now play on the wizards.
Could the Mavs get out of the Williams deal for a couple of seconds?
(01-14-2024, 11:34 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Shocked that Detroit paid to get off of Bagley's deal a year after giving it to him.
Really? I was more shocked they acquired him in he first place. It was obvious he was a lost cause pretty quickly, imo.
(01-14-2024, 11:40 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ]Could the Mavs get out of the Williams deal for a couple of seconds?
Williams is nowhere near as distressed as Bagley. He’s (Williams) just not playing well right now. There’s a fairly long history of him being a good role player (in a more limited capacity, granted) and a well-liked teammate.
Bagley has been a colossal bust and major malcontent since day 1.
Doesn't seem smart from Detroit. Why wasting assets since they have all the cap space in the world.
Cost of dumping Bagley can't be compared to cost of dumping Holmes. Bagley is still young and their might be hope for him. Holmes will be out of the league soon.
(01-14-2024, 12:08 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't seem smart from Detroit. Why wasting assets since they have all the cap space in the world.
Cost of dumping Bagley can't be compared to cost of dumping Holmes. Bagley is still young and their might be hope for him. Holmes will be out of the league soon.
Bagley will be, too. His Dad is a problem. Nobody wants anything to do with them.
(01-14-2024, 12:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Bagley will be, too. His Dad is a problem. Nobody wants anything to do with them.
Still, Bagley is actually playing and putting up some stats. A tanking team like Washington is happy they got 2 SRP to check if there is anything to build on.
Other than that, Washington gave up two players that probably have zero value (no one prepared to give assets for them). All in all, I think a good move for them to receive 2 SRP for eating 12 mil of Bagley. It does indicate what Mavs would need to pay to dump Holmes, if the return is "zero value" player. Mostly looking, if Toronto (or other Mavs trade partner) would prefer expiring contract instead of Holmes. McDermott could be a similar option, if SA doesn't care much about cap space for next season.
Does getting a PF in Bagley set Washington up better for a Kuzma trade?
I'm also interested in the structure of this as it relates to Washington's TPE. Recall they have one large enough to take either Holmes or GWill. Curious how they did this. Muscala and Gallinari fit into the TPE and I think Detroit ends up under the cap after this deal creating a new TPE? Or, is is just a trade match preserving the old TPE?
(01-14-2024, 01:22 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Does getting a PF in Bagley set Washington up better for a Kuzma trade?
Ugh.
We need to speak with Detroit. They gave up two 2nds and the player with the highest (only) upside to save one year of 12.5M to do what exactly? Nobody will sign there in FA and they are three years away from competing for a play-in.
Bagley putting up 10/5 in 18 minutes with an on/off + 4.1. He had a positive +/- in half his games, which is quite an accomplishment, when your team is 3-36. Complete no brainer for Washington and a big "we are morons" flag waived by the Pistons front office, IF that Monty Williams contract wasn´t enough evidence.
(01-14-2024, 01:23 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]We need to speak with Detroit. They gave up two 2nds and the player with the highest (only) upside to save one year of 12.5M to do what exactly?
I don’t know, obviously, but one guess is that they believe his presence in the locker room is part of what’s causing their nearly worst of all time season. I’m sure you won’t agree, and it might have nothing to do with that, but it’s the first thing that popped into my head.
Personally, I think pretending Bagley still has upside is a stretch.
(01-14-2024, 01:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t know, obviously, but one guess is that they believe his presence in the locker room is part of what’s causing their nearly worst of all time season. I’m sure you won’t agree, and it might have nothing to do with that, but it’s the first thing that popped into my head.
Personally, I think pretending Bagley still has upside is a stretch.
He´s objectively their most productive player with the best on/off. So when your team is 3-36, it´s debateable, whether your statistically best player doesn´t have a point to inquire whether he should not play more.
All I know this is another classic case of a former lottery pick contributing to a contender on a lesser role eventually. You are judging a player against the players he was picked ahead of (Luka, JJ, Young) and being part of two of the worst run franchises of the last decade (until recently).
All I know is find me any 24 year old with a + 4.1 on/off; I´ll gladly accept him and two 2nd round picks in exchange for Richaun Holmes.
(01-14-2024, 11:51 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Really? I was more shocked they acquired him in he first place. It was obvious he was a lost cause pretty quickly, imo.
That too. But I'm even more shocked they cut bait on him the first year in his deal and were so motivated to get off of it by attaching 2nds on a 3-38 win team. It's not like Detroit is winning anytime soon. This deal was a major head scratcher for me.
(01-14-2024, 01:31 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]He´s objectively their most productive player with the best on/off. So when your team is 3-36, it´s debateable, whether your statistically best player doesn´t have a point to inquire whether he should not play more.
All I know this is another classic case of a former lottery pick contributing to a contender on a lesser role eventually. You are judging a player against the players he was picked ahead of (Luka, JJ, Young) and being part of two of the worst run franchises of the last decade (until recently).
I think there’s probably a little bias and unintentional comparison to those guys, sure.
However, the main difference I see between us (I think) is that when a player loses opportunities from multiple teams and is jettisoned from multiple teams, despite a high pedigree and large financial reason to hope he works out, I assume the professionals’ reasoning must be sound, mostly because they’d be crazy not to do everything in their power to make it work. An admission that it’s not going to work and that they have just thrown a lottery pick in the dirt (or whatever they paid in trade to acquire) is a big, big deal. I might be wrong, but it has always seemed to me like you tend to stick with your pre-draft opinion in those situations and assume the fault must be on the teams’ parts.
And for the record, it probably is like that (team’s fault) sometimes. But, I bet it’s the other way more often. Sometimes, a player’s physical ability just isn’t the thing that matters on the bottom line. Sometimes, their personalities are just not work-aroundable.
(01-14-2024, 12:08 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't seem smart from Detroit. Why wasting assets since they have all the cap space in the world.
Cost of dumping Bagley can't be compared to cost of dumping Holmes. Bagley is still young and their might be hope for him. Holmes will be out of the league soon.
But aren't Gallo and Muscala expiring after this season? I don't get what the endgame is with Weaver The revelation to me is, that they kept Wiseman (for now) over Bagley who I think is the better player, which isn't saying much. He added more cap space, which they will have a significant amount. But nobody wants to sign with Detroit as an FA. I thought SVG set the Pistons back when he was there, but Weaver is making him look pretty good.
(01-14-2024, 01:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think there’s probably a little bias and unintentional comparison to those guys, sure.
However, the main difference I see between us (I think) is that when a player loses opportunities from multiple teams and is jettisoned from multiple teams, despite a high pedigree and large financial reason to hope he works out, I assume the professionals’ reasoning must be sound, mostly because they’d be crazy not to do everything in their power to make it work. An admission that it’s not going to work and that they have just thrown a lottery pick in the dirt (or whatever they paid in trade to acquire) is a big, big deal. I might be wrong, but it has always seemed to me like you tend to stick with your pre-draft opinion in those situations and assume the fault must be on the teams’ parts.
And for the record, it probably is like that (team’s fault) sometimes. But, I bet it’s the other way more often. Sometimes, a player’s physical ability just isn’t the thing that matters on the bottom line. Sometimes, their personalities are just not work-aroundable.
Christian Wood comparison?