The missing forward: a poll

[omahen]

Kuz=Demarcus Cousins?  If so...bring him in, check him out.  If he can still play--sign him at the minumum.  We've got some deadwood we can cut from the team.  He can't be any worse than--deadwood.

Kuz is on a 4 year deal he just signed in the summer

[meistermatze]

Draymond gives me a lot of Odom-vibes, great on paper but probably crazy. Please no Zion. I would be down for someone like Siakam or Jeremi Grant (my favorite) if the price is right, even Kuzma who could come cheap. I don't see Markannen as the guy.

I think it is plainly obvious that we NEED a legitimate 4 and are overstacked at guards. I am ready to part with anyone not named Luka, Ky and Exum (super cheap). If you trade Hardaway, you obviously need to keep Hardy. If you trade Williams, you should keep Green and vice versa. But any combination of sending out an offensive and one defensive guard would be fine by me.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Tobias Harris

[omahen]

Tobias Harris

I like him. It could work if Philly is trading for Siakam, basically Mavs sending their not so good contracts and assets to Toronto.

[DanSchwartzgan]

I like him. It could work if Philly is trading for Siakam, basically Mavs sending their not so good contracts and assets to Toronto.

My thought also.  THJ/Holmes (or THJ/GWill) doesn't quite reach.  So, one other contract would be needed.

Hardwood Knocks podcast didn't love the Siakam fit here (didn't hate it either). Too ball dominant to be effective. Likes Grant or Kuzma better. Harris, Grant and Kuzma are basically all bunched at about the same level on EPM (along with DJJ). DJJ gets his number from his defensive prowess. All of Harris, Grant and Kuzma show as similarly good offensive players and similarly bad defensive players.

[dirkfansince1998]

Tobias Harris

Beggars can't be choosers but if the goal is to improve rebounding, defense and toughness he isn't helping in any of those areas.

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Tobias Harris

Are you thinking a 3-Way with Toronto and Philly? Not thinking Philly will punt on this season’s playoffs. Harris is expiring. Toronto wants young, cost controlled players. THJ and Green is too much for expiring Tobias. Do we get draft capital too? Both teams probably balk at taking on Holmes. Philly doesn’t really have young guys Toronto would want.

[KillerLeft]

Beggars can't be choosers but if the goal is to improve rebounding, defense and toughness he isn't helping in any of those areas.

Honest question: If you're right, then what's the value in making the deal?

[MarkAguirreWrathofGod]

Beggars can't be choosers but if the goal is to improve rebounding, defense and toughness he isn't helping in any of those areas.

He isn’t perfect, but he is good at a lot of things. I would think if we traded for him (or Jerami Grant for that matter) we’d go back to Lively, Harris, DJJ or Gwill, Kyrie and Luka. With Exum back off the bench. Jerami and Tobias both can put the ball on the floor and pass or score, mitigating the need for Exum being a starter.

[dirkfansince1998]

Honest question: If you're right, then what's the value in making the deal?

You get a more cosistent and slightly bigger THJ. I guess that would allow the Mavs to play more "traditional" lineups instead of having 2-3 SG-sized players on the floor.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Beggars can't be choosers but if the goal is to improve rebounding, defense and toughness he isn't helping in any of those areas.

Compared to other PF's?  Yes.  Though it is hard to find tough rebounding defenders at the position who also spread the floor.

Compared to THJ (whose place he would take in our rotation)?  He improves all three.

[dirkfansince1998]

Compared to other PF's?  Yes.  Though it is hard to find tough rebounding defenders at the position who also spread the floor.

Compared to THJ (whose place he would take in our rotation)?  He improves all three.

That's the role that I imagined but the question is if the Mavs would view him as a THJ replacement. Or if he would take minutes from DJJ/Williams.

[KillerLeft]

You get a more cosistent and slightly bigger THJ. I guess that would allow the Mavs to play more "traditional" lineups instead of having 2-3 SG-sized players on the floor.

Been over this enough to where I don't think lack of understanding of my position is the source of disagreement, but I just don't see it working out like that at all. 

They WANT to play 2-3 SG sized players (if that even is what Luka is) together. They'd just be putting Curry or Hardy in Hardaway's place, with maybe slightly fewer minutes.

[KillerLeft]

Thinking you can just remove the ENTIRE ROLE of movement shooter out of the offense in the middle of the season because you feel like it is WILD, my friends.

The reason to trade for Harris (or anyone else) has NOTHING to do with Hardaway, from my POV. You do it if you want to use him to replace either Williams or DJJ. I can understand why people are into the idea of replacing Williams at this point. I stuck up with him for a while, but it's getting tough.

Putting Hardaway in the deal makes sense because you have Hardy and/or Curry to replace him. That's the Hardaway connection, along with the contract size.

---

That's the role that I imagined but the question is if the Mavs would view him as a THJ replacement. Or if he would take minutes from DJJ/Williams.

Yes, that IS the question, and so many people are assuming the weirdest possible answer. I guess it's possible, but it makes almost no sense to me. That's why I haven't been on this warpath with everyone. 

I think Williams/DJJ have potential!

[Chicagojk]

Tobias Harris

That is an interesting name that I have not considered.    I could see him being a nice fit next to Lively.  

I think my biggest concern would be the two GM's you would be dealing with.    Both GM's are very hard to do business with.   I could see Dallas getting worked there.  Ha.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Been over this enough to where I don't think lack of understanding of my position is the source of disagreement, but I just don't see it working out like that at all. 

They WANT to play 2-3 SG sized players (if that even is what Luka is) together. They'd just be putting Curry or Hardy in Hardaway's place, with maybe slightly fewer minutes.

Just totally disagree with this...Sorry.  They play 2-3 SG types because other than Lively, the 2-3 SG types are the team's best players.  There isn't a thing THJ does offensively that can't be made up by someone like Grant/Kuz/Tobias.  If THJ's "skill" was so important, it wouldn't be relegated to the bench.  

I think the following balances the rotation so much more than it is with defensive sieve THJ having to take a role because we are so limited offensively outside of our stars.  

Lively      Someone
Tobias     GWill
DJJ         Green
Kyrie       Exum
Luka       Lu-Ky

[omahen]

Are you thinking a 3-Way with Toronto and Philly? Not thinking Philly will punt on this season’s playoffs. Harris is expiring. Toronto wants young, cost controlled players. THJ and Green is too much for expiring Tobias. Do we get draft capital too? Both teams probably balk at taking on Holmes. Philly doesn’t really have young guys Toronto would want.

Philly can have more than max cap space in the summer. So, if Siakam wants to be there, they can just sign him in the summer. Toronto has a choice - get something at TDL or they get nothing in the summer. If Siakam wants to be in Philly, no team will offer good packages for a half a season rental. Especially not teams like Atlanta or Indy, who likely don't become contenders even with Siakam. I don't think Toronto can get more than expiring salary and protected pick for Siakam, if he wants to be in Philly.

Mavs would of course go after Harris only if they think they can resign him in the summer (can they do it earlier?). Expiring deal is worth more than contracts Mavs can offer, especially if we include Holmes. Dallas would need to compensate Toronto with assets to stimulate them to take Dallas contracts instead of expiring Harris. I doubt Green has much value, since we can all see his inconsistent play. He might not be a bad contract, but I also can't see him as a positive one.

[mvossman]

Just totally disagree with this...Sorry.  They play 2-3 SG types because other than Lively, the 2-3 SG types are the team's best players.  There isn't a thing THJ does offensively that can't be made up by someone like Grant/Kuz/Tobias.  If THJ's "skill" was so important, it wouldn't be relegated to the bench.  

I think the following balances the rotation so much more than it is with defensive sieve THJ having to take a role because we are so limited offensively outside of our stars.  

Lively      Someone
Tobias     GWill
DJJ         Green
Kyrie       Exum
Luka       Lu-Ky

That would make us more size appropriate, and probably a little better.  My question is how does it impact next season?  If Tobias walks, where does that leave us cap wise?  Maybe 16 mil in cap space?  Enough to retain DJJ but not much else.  And we will have sent out most of our "fodder" contracts in the trade, making it more difficult to make a big trade without giving up important pieces.  Do we sign Tobias to something smaller?  That lets us keep team as is, but still makes it awkward for big trade.  Is that a roster you see having any chance to contend?

[KillerLeft]

There isn't a thing THJ does offensively that can't be made up by someone like Grant/Kuz/Tobias.  I

That's wrong. Factually. 

It's my OPINION that what THJ does is something they'd need another player to do in his absence. I think it's strange, but I can't outright disprove the idea that everyone would get bumped down a position. I don't think that's what would happen, but that's just my read. 

But, it's FACTUALLY incorrect to suggest any of those players has the ability to run around off-ball screens like THJ with as quick of a release after the catch (or as wide a variety of releases, also). It's just wrong. No ambiguity. It is incorrect to say that.

[DanSchwartzgan]

But, it's FACTUALLY incorrect to suggest any of those players has the ability to run around off-ball screens like THJ with as quick of a release after the catch (or as wide a variety of releases, also). It's just wrong. No ambiguity. It is incorrect to say that.

It happens 1.7 times a game.  It is 10% of THJ’s volume and he scores 1.06 PPP coming off of screens.  

His spot up (1.12) and isolation (1.18) numbers are better.  Heck, DJJ’s spot up number (1.12) is better.  As a team we score 1.02 PPP, so it is a positive play.  But, we aren’t winning or losing games based on THJ coming off of screens well.

Also, read what I said more closely. I didn’t claim those players could come off of screens well. I said what THJ does offensively can be “made up” by those players. A Tobias Harris ISO is just as efficient as THJ coming off a screen (and easier to manufacture)