Cuban has sold the Mavs to Adelson-Dumont Family

[mvossman]

A "Venetian-like resort with a new arena" is what I think I just heard while driving.  I'm indifferent to the gambling aspect and haven't been to Vegas in years but can someone tell me if the Venetian is considered one of the best resorts? Like IGT said, IF this were to happen, then I'm mildly interested.

Yes, it is.  Its been a while, but I recall all of the ceilings being painted like the sky.  It was one of my favorites back when I used to go.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Back in 2008ish I rubbed elbows with one of the larger if not largest excavation company owners in Dallas...like I stayed the night at his townhouse in Plano on the regular...

Was it in the Sinacola's?  If so, then I know the townhouse you're talking about...

[mvossman]

Going to ignore the talk to relocating to Vegas and Dallas becoming a resort town and who the Adelsons are for a second to say this:

The Mavericks just went from having an ownership group worth about 6 billion dollars to one that's worth about 40 billion.  We always talked about Cuban being cheap but sometimes we ignored that Cuban may have just been poor in terms of sports ownership.  There are no more financial excuses moving forward.

Yep.  In an ideal world we continue down the path we started this last offseason (feels like less Cuban and more Lindsey) and are more willing to go into the tax.

[Reunion Mav]

A "Venetian-like resort with a new arena" is what I think I just heard while driving.  I'm indifferent to the gambling aspect and haven't been to Vegas in years but can someone tell me if the Venetian is considered one of the best resorts? Like IGT said, IF this were to happen, then I'm mildly interested.

Yes and it has been for some time. I do enjoy Vegas and can get behind a great Dallas resort and sports venue. 
I also think Cuban might be much better now that he doesn’t have the financial pressure which may have been very real. I saw that he loves his Shark Tank investment as do I but that financially he has not made money there either. It is probably time to lock down his investments for whenever retire. I also like that he indicated more time with his Teenage kids matters to him.

[surfpuckmd]

This is all very confusing and it's difficulty to determine how this will affect the Mavericks approach to roster building.

I am concerned that it is a net negative as we now have ownership responsibility spread between Cuban and the Adelson family and thus less accountability.

I think we'll know more this coming summer though based upon their willingness to pay the luxury tax.  I don't expect we'll go near the 2nd apron but it will be very disturbing if they make decisions to stay under the luxury tax again.

The worst part in this is that not only does Cuban retain operational control but we can't even hope that he'll sell the team to lose thar control.  He now has sold the team but still controls it.  It's like a weird, very specific nightmare.

[mvossman]

This is all very confusing and it's difficulty to determine how this will affect the Mavericks approach to roster building.

I am concerned that it is a net negative as we now have ownership responsibility spread between Cuban and the Adelson family and thus less accountability.

I think we'll know more this coming summer though based upon their willingness to pay the luxury tax.  I don't expect we'll go near the 2nd apron but it will be very disturbing if they make decisions to stay under the luxury tax again.

The worst part in this is that not only does Cuban retain operational control but we can't even hope that he'll sell the team to lose thar control.  He now has sold the team but still controls it.  It's like a weird, very specific nightmare.

To be honest, it feels like the FO is finally making good decisions right now.  Not sure how excited I would be to pull the plug on that and get random new option.  

The FO was clearly ready to go into the tax if it made sense last offseason.  They made the offer to Thybulle that would have put them there (unless they had some plan to dump salary afterwords).  It seems like having a 40 billion pocket owning majority is a good thing regarding tax concerns.

[youzigizag]

Was it in the Sinacola's?  If so, then I know the townhouse you're talking about...

Close.  This group was close with the Sinacola's, though.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Close.  This group was close with the Sinacola's, though.

Gotcha, one of the Sincolas was in my high school class and we were pretty tight and they also lived out in West Plano.

[youzigizag]

I really dont care anymore.

It was Brian Rich and the Rodman Group. I grew up down the street from a family that became very successful starting American Landscape Systems. They worked with the Rodman Group...dont know if it was through family ties previous to success or if it was all strictly business that brought them together. But my childhood friend who,s brother helped start American Landscape Systems was living with Brian Rich in his Townhouse in Shops of Legacy. So...since my childhood friend and I were close then...I was around these very successful people. I stayed the weekend at this townhouse for like 2 years straight it seems like. Thats being overzealous but not too far from the truth.

There was like 5 companies that all seemed to feed off each other...even though Rodman Group was an excavation company and so was Mario Sinacola...it seemed like those groups were having dinners with each other regularly unless my information was wrong...but I dont know why it would be. I forget the 5 groups...I was more into having a good time than making money back then(a mistake)...but it seemed like Sinacolas, Rodman Group and American Landscape Systems were very close.

[DallasMaverick]

Yep.  In an ideal world we continue down the path we started this last offseason (feels like less Cuban and more Lindsey) and are more willing to go into the tax.

I just don’t get the feeling that paying tax has ever been an issue. Lots of people on this board, however, definitely have that opinion.

Especially with the new CBA, it sure looks like the biggest barrier is wise and thrifty roster construction, rather than any savings to the owners.

…and as has been noted, winning translates to financial benefit, probably far outpacing any tax expense along the way.

Cuban has always wanted to win.

[Mavs2021]

The Adelsons don’t own any of the sports teams in Vegas so I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at.

Yeah sorry only read one apparently poorly researched article on the way to work. 

Also makes more sense that way, cause an successful ownership group would never allow a bonehead like Mark Cuban to run their operational business.  
 
So we stay sucking in Dallas, but for $2B the Adelsons finally gets to fix the embarrassment of the leaking roof.

[youzigizag]

I just don’t get the feeling that paying tax has ever been an issue. Lots of people on this board, however, definitely have that opinion.

Especially with the new CBA, it sure looks like the biggest barrier is wise and thrifty roster construction, rather than any savings to the owners.

…and as has been noted, winning translates to financial benefit, probably far outpacing any tax expense along the way.

Cuban has always wanted to win.

I dont doubt Mark wants to win.  But dont you have to factor in his very own comments stating he regrets blowing like 150 million trying to win and it was a mistake?  Or maybe the figure was higher...but Mark is on record saying he was foolish with his cash early on.  Doesnt mean you cant be smart and spend money...just saying that Mark's comments seem to suggest he tightened the wallet.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

I dont doubt Mark wants to win.  But dont you have to factor in his very own comments stating he regrets blowing like 150 million trying to win and it was a mistake?  Or maybe the figure was higher...but Mark is on record saying he was foolish with his cash early on.  Doesnt mean you cant be smart and spend money...just saying that Mark's comments seem to suggest he tightened the wallet.

Agreed, but now he could potentially be reaching into someone else's wallet for certain things.

[KillerLeft]

I'm sure this was mentioned before, but if you haven't seen Cuban's episode of "All the Smoke" yet, there's a portion of it wherein he describes what I believe to be his motivation here quite overtly.

You should watch for yourselves, but the gist is that he believes the tv money is a bubble that will burst within the next decade or so, and that his observation about the rich teams, such as GSW and LAC, is that they're generating the majority of their money through real estate around their stadiums. He basically said he'd need to bring in partners "at some point" who understand how real estate works so that the team can generate enough money to compete. "I don't understand real estate"..."I don't care, I just want the Mavericks to win"...I think we're seeing the real life manifestation of that thought.

Maybe it has to do with a bet that gambling will be legal here soon, but maybe the fall back is just that the new group knows how to work real estate deals in general.

[youzigizag]

I'm sure this was mentioned before, but if you haven't seen Cuban's episode of "All the Smoke" yet, there's a portion of it wherein he describes what I believe to be his motivation here quite overtly.

You should watch for yourselves, but the gist is that he believes the tv money is a bubble that will burst within the next decade or so, and that his observation about the rich teams, such as GSW and LAC, is that they're generating the majority of their money through real estate around their stadiums. He basically said he's need to bring in partners "at some point" who understand how real estate works so that the team can generate enough money to compete. "I don't understand real estate"..."I don't care, I just want the Mavericks to win"...I think we're seeing the real life manifestation of that thought.

Maybe it has to do with a bet that gambling will be legal here soon, but maybe the fall back is just that the new group knows how to work real estate deals in general.

Why not partner with a real estate Mogul in Jerry Jones?  He is Local...knows the land...has major pull.  Unless the deal called for someone willing to take on more risk.   

I know nothing about business.  Just seems weird that Jerry is a real estate God...but Mark chose an outsider.  Unless mixing two sports amongst one owner is a bad thing.

My main point is that the Jones' are real estate Pro's, own a sports team and are local.  But I have no idea about business in general. Isnt Jerry known for generating revenue from around a stadium too?

[Reunion Mav]

I'm sure this was mentioned before, but if you haven't seen Cuban's episode of "All the Smoke" yet, there's a portion of it wherein he describes what I believe to be his motivation here quite overtly.

You should watch for yourselves, but the gist is that he believes the tv money is a bubble that will burst within the next decade or so, and that his observation about the rich teams, such as GSW and LAC, is that they're generating the majority of their money through real estate around their stadiums. He basically said he'd need to bring in partners "at some point" who understand how real estate works so that the team can generate enough money to compete. "I don't understand real estate"..."I don't care, I just want the Mavericks to win"...I think we're seeing the real life manifestation of that thought.

Maybe it has to do with a bet that gambling will be legal here soon, but maybe the fall back is just that the new group knows how to work real estate deals in general.

Thanks that makes a lot of sense to my business mind. It sounds like a Wall Street Journal sort of take. As we all know the NBA is a business…. Probably in more ways than we know.

[michaeltex]

I'm sure this was mentioned before, but if you haven't seen Cuban's episode of "All the Smoke" yet, there's a portion of it wherein he describes what I believe to be his motivation here quite overtly.

You should watch for yourselves, but the gist is that he believes the tv money is a bubble that will burst within the next decade or so, and that his observation about the rich teams, such as GSW and LAC, is that they're generating the majority of their money through real estate around their stadiums. He basically said he's need to bring in partners "at some point" who understand how real estate works so that the team can generate enough money to compete. "I don't understand real estate"..."I don't care, I just want the Mavericks to win"...I think we're seeing the real life manifestation of that thought.

Maybe it has to do with a bet that gambling will be legal here soon, but maybe the fall back is just that the new group knows how to work real estate deals in general.

This sounds very plausible. I will admit to having reservations about MC's ability to see the future of NBA finances. Post-2011 CBA and his interpretation is a case in point.

I will say that, when MC bought the team for $285M back in 2000 he was considered a wealthy owner that could do wonders for upgrading the team. I think he was one of the wealthiest owners at the time. Then came Ballmer, Allen, Pera, etc.

Now he's somewhere in the middle (ranked 14th in 2022 at Sports Brief, link HERE) but may be facing cash issues due to the crypto fallout and other business performances, nobody knows for sure. Using the net worth in the link, $2B will increase his net worth by ~43% (before taxes, but that's what CPAs are for).

Certainly, one could make the case that deeper pockets could buy an improved team that could function as the centerpiece of a development plan.

[dirkfansince1998]

This sounds very plausible. I will admit to having reservations about MC's ability to see the future of NBA finances. Post-2011 CBA and his interpretation is a case in point.

I will say that, when MC bought the team for $285M back in 2000 he was considered a wealthy owner that could do wonders for upgrading the team. I think he was one of the wealthiest owners at the time. Then came Ballmer, Allen, Pera, etc.

Now he's somewhere in the middle (ranked 14th in 2022 at Sports Brief, link HERE) but may be facing cash issues due to the crypto fallout and other business performances, nobody knows for sure. Using the net worth in the link, $2B will increase his net worth by ~43% (before taxes, but that's what CPAs are for).

Certainly, one could make the case that deeper pockets could buy an improved team that could function as the centerpiece of a development plan.

Net worth calculations include the value of the Mavs. It is not going to increase his net worth (maybe a little bit, depending on the money he is getting vs estimated value of the franchise) but it could free up money for other investments. Not sure how he is going to use it (casino/resort, crypto, tech, presidential campaign) but if he isn't sure about the future of TV deals/broadcasting he probably wants to get some of his money out of basketball instead of having more than 50% of his net worth tied up in it.

[ItsGoTime]

Didn’t Perot retain some of his stake in the Mavs? The AAC and the surrounding area are his baby too. If Cuban could have buried the hatchet with him he wouldn’t have had to sell the team.

[F Gump]

Didn’t Perot retain some of his stake in the Mavs? The AAC and the surrounding area are his baby too. If Cuban could have buried the hatchet with him he wouldn’t have had to sell the team.

The fact that there is a new arena looming makes sense of all of this.

Perot's was an old real estate venture one that Cuban didn't do, didn't know how to do, didn't want to do, didn't see the money he left on the table.

This is a NEW real estate venture. Perot could never be Cuban's partner in this new venture -- his pockets aren't deep enough. Not only that, but this new venture will likely siphon big value away from Perot's old venture, as the new Unnamed Arena will be the cornerstone, that will create huge value for surrounding real estate, and the Obsoleted AAC will no longer be the place to be (with real estate values following accordingly).

As for Cuban having to sell, it's more of an investment than a sell -- he is swapping part of a smaller valued item for a sizable share of what he expects to be a massively bigger one. It's the Disney World model, and for years has been adopted by other sports owners WHEN they build a new stadium/arena. Cuban has the team who is about to "need" a new playground, and he's partnering with someone who can help him leverage that opportunity. They will grab a huge valuable footprint of land, based on that (supposed) need, and also get support from city, county, and state to allay their costs.