Game 8: Toronto Raptors (4-4) vs. Dallas Mavericks (6-2) | 127-116 loss

[SleepingHero]

Luka Doncic on missing Dereck Lively II tonight: “Obviously you guys, me and our team knows how important he is for us and it’s only his rookie season. So the ceiling for him is so big, so of course we’ll miss him any game he will miss.”

[SleepingHero]

[ItsGoTime]

I think Tari Eason and Isaiah Stewart would make us the team of the future. How do we get them? I don’t know.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

I think Tari Eason and Isaiah Stewart would make us the team of the future. How do we get them? I don’t know.

The power of prayer...

[Knutsen]

Wasn’t able to watch this one - fortunately I guess. How did Holmes look in his first few minutes against real competition?

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Wasn’t able to watch this one - fortunately I guess. How did Holmes look in his first few minutes against real competition?

Like he doesn't really solve the issue of giving up paint points.

Had moments on offense though.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

Like he doesn't really solve the issue of giving up paint points.

Had moments on offense though.

We've known that forever.  At his best he's a good rebounder and can put up points.  Never had defense though.

[Knutsen]

We've known that forever.  At his best he's a good rebounder and can put up points.  Never had defense though.

In his last two seasons as a starter for the Kings he averaged 2.2 combined blocks and steals with more than 8 rebounds. 

That‘s no defensive player of the year type defense, but much more than either Kleber or Powell ever averaged. Empty stats or did he have some defensive skills?

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Like he doesn't really solve the issue of giving up paint points.

Had moments on offense though.

I remember when he was on Philly before they drafted Embiid. He was pretty good until they traded him.

[SleepingHero]

Wasn’t able to watch this one - fortunately I guess. How did Holmes look in his first few minutes against real competition?

He showed me he still has his motor. He can be a pretty interesting option in the PnR. But it was clear to me he barely knew any of the plays/position on the court and was just winging it. After an entire training camp and 2 weeks into the season, I was pretty disappointed. 

As others have said, he leaves a lot to be desired defensively. He reminds me so much of Powell in that he has all the downsides of Powell but with a worse BBIQ. So borderline unplayable and the Mavs need to find some team that's dumb enough to take his contract.

[omahen]

So borderline unplayable and the Mavs need to find some team that's dumb enough to take his contract.

What do you think Sacramento was trying to do ever since they traded for Sabonis?  Eventually they did find the team and we have to hope really hard that Omax was worth it. Mavs spent a very good trade asset (Bertans TE) for him.

[Mavs2021]

What do you think Sacramento was trying to do ever since they traded for Sabonis?  Eventually they did find the team and we have to hope really hard that Omax was worth it. Mavs spent a very good trade asset (Bertans TE) for him.

Let´s not get carried away here. Very good is really a stretch. All you can do is replace his bad money with another perceived negative long-term asset in return. Nobody is giving you a good player, just cause he can be waived for 5M.  

Bertans is still a 22M commitment for the next two seasons, even if you waive him. Holmes is a 25M commitment. 

Holmes is still young enough that a change of scenery could spark a return to form. It might also be a little too early to write him off completely. This was his first competitive game in months. He still came away with three rebounds, which is more than Kleber or Williams in half/quarter of the minutes and finished with a +1.

Real question is whether we could have flipped Holmes + Kleber + 25th pick for Ayton. Very likely.

[omahen]

Let´s not get carried away here. Very good is really a stretch. All you can do is replace his bad money with another perceived negative long-term asset in return. Nobody is giving you a good player, just cause he can be waived for 5M.  

Bertans is still a 22M commitment for the next two seasons, even if you waive him. Holmes is a 25M commitment. 

Holmes is still young enough that a change of scenery could spark a return to form. It might also be a little too early to write him off completely. This was his first competitive game in months. He still came away with three rebounds, which is more than Kleber or Williams in half/quarter of the minutes and finished with a +1.

Real question is whether we could have flipped Holmes + Kleber + 25th pick for Ayton. Very likely.

Sacramento didn't take Bertans... That was a separate deal with OKC

[omahen]

I agree no one will just give away a good player into the TPE for nothing. But TPE and additional assets is far more attractive offer than (lets say) remaining two years of THJ contract and additional assets.

[Mavs2021]

I agree no one will just give away a good player into the TPE for nothing. But TPE and additional assets is far more attractive offer than (lets say) remaining two years of THJ contract and additional assets.

THJ is the favourite for 6th man of the year on a declining contract against an exploding cap. It´s more a matter of finding a good situation, where he can play next to good defensive players. We need him. 3rd in PPG, 5th in RPG, 4th in 3pt FG%. I´m more worried about Maxi.

[omahen]

THJ is the favourite for 6th man of the year on a declining contract against an exploding cap. It´s more a matter of finding a good situation, where he can play next to good defensive players. We need him. 3rd in PPG, 5th in RPG, 4th in 3pt FG%. I´m more worried about Maxi.

It will be a first someone calls THJ contract a great one. Not sure what makes you say he is the favourite for 6th man of the year. Before the Toronto game he was third best bench scorer in the league and he doesn't provide much else. One could easily call Green as more important and impactful bench player on the Mavs team alone. Unless all it counts is scoring.

[Mavs2021]

It will be a first someone calls THJ contract a great one. Not sure what makes you say he is the favourite for 6th man of the year. Before the Toronto game he was third best bench scorer in the league and he doesn't provide much else. One could easily call Green as more important and impactful bench player on the Mavs team alone. Unless all it counts is scoring.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/sixth-man/

[SleepingHero]

What do you think Sacramento was trying to do ever since they traded for Sabonis?  Eventually they did find the team and we have to hope really hard that Omax was worth it. Mavs spent a very good trade asset (Bertans TE) for him.

I don't think a TE is a very good asset. I cannot remember a time before where a TE was used by the Mavs to actually upgrade the roster. 

I think Omax will 100% be worth it. I think the Mavs have the added difficulty of finding a team that's dumb enough to accept the Holmes contract AND give up something of value. Mavs didn't give up anything remotely of value to SAC other than their own cap space (which they weren't using anyways).

[omahen]

I don't think a TE is a very good asset. I cannot remember a time before where a TE was used by the Mavs to actually upgrade the roster. 

I think Omax will 100% be worth it. I think the Mavs have the added difficulty of finding a team that's dumb enough to accept the Holmes contract AND give up something of value. Mavs didn't give up anything remotely of value to SAC other than their own cap space (which they weren't using anyways).

If Mavs were not able to use it, it doesn't mean it is not a good trade asset. Teams selling guys prefer zero money back instead of some contract that doesn't do anything for them (they are most likely rebuilding anyway). Several teams used TE to their advantage in last couple of seasons. For example Nets got O'Neale in TE, Boston got Fournier,...

[SleepingHero]

If Mavs were not able to use it, it doesn't mean it is not a good trade asset. Teams selling guys prefer zero money back instead of some contract that doesn't do anything for them (they are most likely rebuilding anyway). Several teams used TE to their advantage in last couple of seasons. For example Nets got O'Neale in TE, Boston got Fournier,...

Those 2 examples you mentioned:

O'Neal cost the Nets a 1st and Boston had to give 2 2nds for Fournier. The Mavs can't be liberal with their draft assets for marginal upgrades. Which if a team is literally giving away a guy for a TPE and a pick, it'd be for a marginal upgrade.