Game 8: Toronto Raptors (4-4) vs. Dallas Mavericks (6-2) | 127-116 loss

[Chicagojk]

Well that was rough.

As Mavs continue to build a contender around Luka they need to find a better roster to compete against all these long and skill teams. I think/hope they made the first step this off-season but they really need that other tall wing who can rebound and fit with Luka. They also need Omax to be a player.

[Mavs2021]

Teams that gave up 100 shots today: Hornets, Spurs, Jazz and Mavs. Sure looked like a lottery team again without Lively.

[Chicagojk]

Raptors have 2-3 guys who always seem to play well against Dallas.

[donzingis38]

stupid fn game. i dont mind losing games if it was entertaining. this game was frustrating to watch.

thj, green, kleber were all really really bad.

[SwisherPrice]

Trade Seth for Jalen McDaniels straight up. Both of their teams currently have no use for them right now

[ThisIStheYear]

Luka was just off tonight, and a signature Luka performance was really the only hope the Mavs had. Pretty much the whole team except Kyrie and DJJ were a beat slow. Dallas was on a third game in four nights with home, away, and back home travel. Toronto has been waiting in Dallas since the weekend I think. Dallas didn’t really have much of a shot. Scheduled loss. Burn the tape. Nothing to take from this one. The NBA needs to do a better job with scheduling.

[SleepingHero]

Toronto just killed us. Luka has seemed off basically 3/4 quarters against Orlando. 3/4 quarters against Chicago. And again 3/4 quarters against Toronto. He has to be playing hurt or something, but he's also just making just some super low iq plays.

This team got absolutely feasted on inside. Powell, Grant, and Kleber should be embarrassed. Not sure if Lively would've been the difference, but this team just gave up on the defensive end after the 1st quarter.

[MrGoat]

Get well soon Dereck Lively. We can't afford to hemorrhage paint points and get crushed on the boards like that. And we shot horribly at the line to boot

[SleepingHero]

Jason Kidd on Dereck Lively II missing tonight’s game: “We miss him a lot, there was no one in the paint tonight and that just shows how important he is to our team...we just didn't do a good job on the perimeter or in the paint."

https://twitter.com/sixfivelando/status/...9149072593

[donzingis38]

we will never win anything with powell and kleber. truly sick and tired of watching them.

we could've signed players like jeff green and/or biyombo. they'd be more useful to us and they're cheaper.

[Jakeospikez]

Yeah Luka weirdly missed a ton of open point blank shots that he rarely misses for whatever reason. Siakam's 3s don't just miss, they aren't even close. Not sure I'd pay the premium for that trade. Boucher would be a solid rotation piece to get for cheap. OG of course is great but should be the most expensive, not sure he's even available for the Mavs set of assets. He could also have that KP syndrome where he wants to chuck to get his numbers up for more money in future contracts.

[omahen]

Too small...

OG is the kind of player Mavs need to become a serious contender. Maxi was so bad, passing wiiiiiide open threes...

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Luka was just off tonight, and a signature Luka performance was really the only hope the Mavs had. Pretty much the whole team except Kyrie and DJJ were a beat slow. Dallas was on a third game in four nights with home, away, and back home travel. Toronto has been waiting in Dallas since the weekend I think. Dallas didn’t really have much of a shot. Scheduled loss. Burn the tape. Nothing to take from this one. The NBA needs to do a better job with scheduling.

And the same thing will happen to Dallas when they’re waiting on a team home or away that had 3 games in 4 nights. All teams experience it playing so many games. That's the NBA.

[Chicagojk]

Too small...

OG is the kind of player Mavs need to become a serious contender. Maxi was so bad, passing wiiiiiide open threes...

I have always liked that Toronto team despite them being pretty average the last few years.    The question I have for them is what is their plan?   Going into the offseason where both Siakem and OG (plus Trent) can be free agents is really concerning.  Especially with some comments by their GM prior to the season.   

I agree OG would fit really nice here.  I think he may be overvalued in some trade discussions in the past, but there is no doubt he would have a lot of suitors.   

I really like Barnes and I think I would prefer Siakem over OG.   Age would be consideration though.  So I wonder if they would move OG for a scoring guard.    What about Levine?  It would even them out some.   I just think Toronto needs to do something and they probably need to make a decision between Siakem or OG.   I don't know you can go into the offseason with both free or give both big contracts.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

1st, he's on the wrong side of 30, and that torn hammy he suffered last year was a killer, now he's got a bad toe. You can expect him to start suffering nagging injuries on the regular now. Can't depend on him playing major minutes anymore.

I keep bringing up...  Maxi only played 19% of the minutes afforded him last year.  Only a matter of time before those injuries add up and diminishes his game.  That time has come.

---

Too small...

OG is the kind of player Mavs need to become a serious contender. Maxi was so bad, passing wiiiiiide open threes...

Tari Eason is our answer.

[Chicagojk]

I keep bringing up...  Maxi only played 19% of the minutes afforded him last year.  Only a matter of time before those injuries add up and diminishes his game.  That time has come.

---

Tari Eason is our answer.

If I am the Mavs GM, Maxi is not in my plans for the future.  That is not saying I would cut him now.  He has been a valuable piece as a solid role player when healthy.

When I look at our wings though I want a 4 man rotation.    Grant Williams is one.  Hopefully Green gets out of his funk and plays to the level he can.  He would be two.   Both of those guys are small though and not great rebounders.   We really need Omax to be one of these four.   The last spot is the ?.  I assume this is where we will use our assets to fill.   This guy needs to have size, can defend multiple positions, can rebound and could pair with Grant if Grant plays some small ball 5.   That is a lot to ask for.   I guy like Scottie Barnes or Jaden McDaniels would be ideal...they are just not available.  

At Center, I would probably like an option between Lively and Powell.  Where Powell is your third string center who fills in when we need a spark oi when LIvely is in foul trouble or injured.   This should require minimum assets.   Maybe even a journeyman like Drummond would fit in this role?   Our assets should be used for that big wing though imo.

[omahen]

I have always liked that Toronto team despite them being pretty average the last few years.    The question I have for them is what is their plan?   Going into the offseason where both Siakem and OG (plus Trent) can be free agents is really concerning.  Especially with some comments by their GM prior to the season.   

I agree OG would fit really nice here.  I think he may be overvalued in some trade discussions in the past, but there is no doubt he would have a lot of suitors.   

I really like Barnes and I think I would prefer Siakem over OG.   Age would be consideration though.  So I wonder if they would move OG for a scoring guard.    What about Levine?  It would even them out some.   I just think Toronto needs to do something and they probably need to make a decision between Siakem or OG.   I don't know you can go into the offseason with both free or give both big contracts.

I think Toronto guys are all great, but none of them is good enough to be a number one option on a contender. A bunch of second options is just not good enough. But the one year they were able to add a number one option, they won a ring. Since you mentioned LaVine, I think Chicago is in the same position, really. None of their guys is capable of leading a contender. 

I think the way out for Toronto is to get that number one option. But, I am sure they were trying to do that ever since Kawhi left, but just didn't have success. Toronto is not an attractive destination. As you said, there guys are expiring now and will probably become even more expensive next season. At one point they will probably have to admit that finding their alpha through the draft is the only option, unless they want to be forever mediocre. 

Siakam and OG (also Trent, but less relevant and important) basically control their destiny at this point. A couple of options from this point:
a) If they give a clear message to Toronto, they don't want to resign, Toronto best option is to trade them before summer, as they are certainly not a contender this season. Since the message will be clear they don't want to resign, their trade value will be limited, as only teams with high amount of certainty they will resign with them will be willing to offer something valuable. Philadelphia is being mentioned a lot regarding OG ever since they solved the Harden situation. Relationship plays great role in this. Convince them they want to be with a certain team and their market will be limited. 
b) Players keep it open, giving vague answers about summer. Past experience would show that Toronto would stay pat in this situation and hope to resign them in summer, taking the risk if they decide to go elsewhere (Lowry, FVV cases as examples).

I think Toronto will trade Siakam and try to do everything to keep OG. But, he might demand to be traded (send signals he won't resign). 

I mentioned OG as the type of player it would really fit great with Mavs next to Luka and Kyrie. I don't think it is very likely Mavs will be able to get him. He can play a third violine on a more established "almost contender" like Philly or choose the path of Bridges or Grant, seeking a bigger role with a weak team to inflate his value. But, fortunately for us, there are other big wings that could be available either at TDL or next season that could be more realistic targets.

[omahen]

If I am the Mavs GM, Maxi is not in my plans for the future.  That is not saying I would cut him now.  He has been a valuable piece as a solid role player when healthy.

When I look at our wings though I want a 4 man rotation.    Grant Williams is one.  Hopefully Green gets out of his funk and plays to the level he can.  He would be two.   Both of those guys are small though and not great rebounders.   We really need Omax to be one of these four.   The last spot is the ?.  I assume this is where we will use our assets to fill.   This guy needs to have size, can defend multiple positions, can rebound and could pair with Grant if Grant plays some small ball 5.   That is a lot to ask for.   I guy like Scottie Barnes or Jaden McDaniels would be ideal...they are just not available.  

At Center, I would probably like an option between Lively and Powell.  Where Powell is your third string center who fills in when we need a spark oi when LIvely is in foul trouble or injured.   This should require minimum assets.   Maybe even a journeyman like Drummond would fit in this role?   Our assets should be used for that big wing though imo.

Maxi has been really bad in this season start. To be honest, I was never his fan. He had one great playoff run, but other than that he was constantly injured and ineffective most of the time. I really hate his extremely slow shot and passes. Really limited player on offense. But, I agree with some that already mentioned, Mavs are not really doing him much favors playing him as a solo big. I would definitely try him in a PF role, especially since we can see Mavs look small against many teams now. Even more so with their long line of small players on the bench. Despite Curry losing all his minutes and Exum most of them, Mavs are still playing considerable minutes of small line-ups with 4 guards and a center. THJ is a great guy and can be very good player in the right setting, but unfortunately I think Mavs-THJ marriage is more or less a lose situation for the Mavs regarding overall result. He just doesn't fit with what would Mavs really need, despite several positive contributions. I really don't have anything against THJ, but team building is about putting the right pieces together. I am sure he can be a very valuable piece in the right setting. Orlando, for example, could certainly use him a lot.

Totally agree Mavs need another wing as you described him. All of the assets should be saved to get that guy. Once you get him, you tinker around the edges finding better role players.

[Ghost of Podkolzin]

If I am the Mavs GM, Maxi is not in my plans for the future.  That is not saying I would cut him now.  He has been a valuable piece as a solid role player when healthy.

When I look at our wings though I want a 4 man rotation.    Grant Williams is one.  Hopefully Green gets out of his funk and plays to the level he can.  He would be two.   Both of those guys are small though and not great rebounders.   We really need Omax to be one of these four.   The last spot is the ?.  I assume this is where we will use our assets to fill.   This guy needs to have size, can defend multiple positions, can rebound and could pair with Grant if Grant plays some small ball 5.   That is a lot to ask for.   I guy like Scottie Barnes or Jaden McDaniels would be ideal...they are just not available.  

At Center, I would probably like an option between Lively and Powell.  Where Powell is your third string center who fills in when we need a spark oi when LIvely is in foul trouble or injured.   This should require minimum assets.   Maybe even a journeyman like Drummond would fit in this role?   Our assets should be used for that big wing though imo.

Great analysis.

OMax isn't going to contribute this year.  His game is at least a year away.

GWill is who he is.  Gritty.  Great outside shooter.  Below par rebounder.  Undersized.  Inconsistent defender.

DJJ has the profile, but perhaps not the talent/skill/consistency.

So, we need our OG.

We need a starting level backup C to platoon with Lively, or better yet someone who could also play the 4 with Lively (GWill can play the 3 in spots).

Throwing availability to the side, ideally I'd like our 10 man rotation to be...
G Rotation: Kyrie, J.Green, Hardy. Exum
SF/PF Rotation: Luka, T.Eason, GWill
PF/C Rotation: Z.Collins
C Rotation: Lively, Powell
Trade/Bury on the bench: Holmes, Curry, THJ, Maxi, Morris
*The plus side is that THJ is playing up to his contract this year.  Sell high.
*Get OMax 35 minutes as a point forward on the Legends.

[StrandedOnBeauboisHill]

Straight bullied last night plus just really rough games for the majority of our role players. Need a little more size and talent on those wings still...

OG would be awesome here.