Kyrie Irving: we already named a city after him!

[F Gump]

Hm, I thought waiving him (which can be done any time) would take his $ off the tax calculations. I guess that must be wrong?

It's a bit different than that.

The only time you can do a S-W on the salary in a current season is in July or August. Otherwise, if you waive a player, the guaranteed part of the salary stays on the cap for this season, but you can stretch future seasons over "twice the years plus one" number of seasons.

[The Jom]

It's a bit different than that.

The only time you can do a S-W on the salary in a current season is in July or August. Otherwise, if you waive a player, the guaranteed part of the salary stays on the cap for this season, but you can stretch future seasons over "twice the years plus one" number of seasons.

All that I read and understood. It’s the counting towards luxury tax I didn’t get. I thought once waived the guys numbers wouldn’t be taxed. I guess you’re saying it all counts for tax purposes. Even the stretched numbers.

[F Gump]

All that I read and understood. It’s the counting towards luxury tax I didn’t get. I thought once waived the guys numbers wouldn’t be taxed. I guess you’re saying it all counts for tax purposes. Even the stretched numbers.

I'm not sure I fully follow you ...

But the tax is based on the cap number, whatever it is (with a few minor tweaks).

The full waived salary (less any give-back, if there's a buyout agreement) will ALL hit the cap/tax accounting at some point, and all the S-W does is revise what hits when.

So the DB contract is 16, 17, 5 (guaranteed portion) year by year.

As is, the cap hit (and tax hit) year by year would be...16, 17, 5

If S-waived now, the cap hit (and tax hit) year by year would be...16, 4.4, 4.4, 4.4, 4.4, 4.4,

[Jason Terry]

SAS, HOU, DET, CHA, OKC, IND are the teams with Kyrie sized space this summer. Anybody see him signing with any of those teams? 

LA has significant space. Not enough for his max even if they let Rui walk for nothing and strip down the whole roster. 

Therefore, if this does not work out there WILL be SnT opportunities this summer. This wouldn’t make us whole, but we could get at least a pick back 

There’s been mention of possibly having the option of moving the pick to Brooklyn this summer to 2030 when that comes available. Therefore, we could still trade 2024, 2026 and 2028(plus pick we get in SnT) in a hypothetical trade to bring in someone else

Now, if we trade the 2027 FRP right now then this is not possible. My thinking is: If superstar Kyrie doesn’t work out, we can say “hey Luka we tried and the co-star thing doesn’t work with you”. “Let’s build going forward by getting all the best role players that fit perfect with you and try that way” In this case we wouldn’t be looking for the single star that requires a full draft anyways. So, keeping 2027 isn’t as big of a deal

I really do think this move at the least buys us some time with Luka and helps the case for him staying. Having tangible evidence of what success/failure looks like with a true star next to him is worth what we gave up. Luka doesn’t have to think for the next 3 years, “Hey, what would it be like to play with an all star?”.

[Chicagojk]

Yesterday afternoon I was ready to go all in with the rest of our remaining picks.    This team clearly has a ton of holes: big PF/wing, rim protector, backup creator, more shooting, more wing defense, etc.

Although, the more I think about it, it may be best to take a step back.  Trades right now are such a premium for the good, not great players on the market. Even teams like the Nets with extra picks are looking for upgrades.  Dallas is at such a disadvantage right now in trade talks.   The players they can get are more complimentary players.  Do you really want to use our remaining first for those?

So unless there is a player I really like, lets stick to the player for player swaps.  Even those are challenging with this roster.   It may suck because this season may continue to be a slog with the current roster, but it may be best to wait until the offseason where you are not paying such high prices for good, not great players.

[DanSchwartzgan]

If S-waived now, the cap hit (and tax hit) year by year would be...16, 4.4, 4.4, 4.4, 4.4, 4.4,

Only thing I'll add is I don't think you S/W Bertans to save tax hit.  IF you do it, it would be to create more cap room this summer (not Plan A).  Otherwise, better to wait a year and stretch $5mm over 3 years.

[DanSchwartzgan]

SAS, HOU, DET, CHA, OKC, IND are the teams with Kyrie sized space this summer. Anybody see him signing with any of those teams? 

LA has significant space. Not enough for his max even if they let Rui walk for nothing and strip down the whole roster. 

Therefore, if this does not work out there WILL be SnT opportunities this summer. This wouldn’t make us whole, but we could get at least a pick back 

There’s been mention of possibly having the option of moving the pick to Brooklyn this summer to 2030 when that comes available. Therefore, we could still trade 2024, 2026 and 2028(plus pick we get in SnT) in a hypothetical trade to bring in someone else

Or, could you trade 26 now knowing you have this wink/wink deal in place with Brooklyn.  Then you'd still be able to add a player to what you already have using 24 and 28.  You kind of have to play chess on two boards simultaneously with this one.  In one game you are playing the Kyrie gets his 4 year max game.  On the other, you are playing the Kyrie S&T game.

In July of 2018 a team in Canada traded two starters and a first for another mercurial star.  A year later he was lost for nothing in return.  That rental worked out OK.

[ItsGoTime]

SAS, HOU, DET, CHA, OKC, IND are the teams with Kyrie sized space this summer. Anybody see him signing with any of those teams? 

LA has significant space. Not enough for his max even if they let Rui walk for nothing and strip down the whole roster. 

Therefore, if this does not work out there WILL be SnT opportunities this summer. This wouldn’t make us whole, but we could get at least a pick back 

There’s been mention of possibly having the option of moving the pick to Brooklyn this summer to 2030 when that comes available. Therefore, we could still trade 2024, 2026 and 2028(plus pick we get in SnT) in a hypothetical trade to bring in someone else

Now, if we trade the 2027 FRP right now then this is not possible. My thinking is: If superstar Kyrie doesn’t work out, we can say “hey Luka we tried and the co-star thing doesn’t work with you”. “Let’s build going forward by getting all the best role players that fit perfect with you and try that way” In this case we wouldn’t be looking for the single star that requires a full draft anyways. So, keeping 2027 isn’t as big of a deal

I really do think this move at the least buys us some time with Luka and helps the case for him staying. Having tangible evidence of what success/failure looks like with a true star next to him is worth what we gave up. Luka doesn’t have to think for the next 3 years, “Hey, what would it be like to play with an all star?”.

You forgot to list the teams willing to use those teams listed to get their payroll down enough to sign him. A list that we cannot know but might be out there. How many times are we fans gonna get kicked in the Gortats before we realize where there’s a will there’s a way with this sort of thing? IT JUST HAPPENED LAST OFFSEASON!

[HoosierDaddyKid]

Yesterday afternoon I was ready to go all in with the rest of our remaining picks.    This team clearly has a ton of holes: big PF/wing, rim protector, backup creator, more shooting, more wing defense, etc.

Although, the more I think about it, it may be best to take a step back.  Trades right now are such a premium for the good, not great players on the market. Even teams like the Nets with extra picks are looking for upgrades.  Dallas is at such a disadvantage right now in trade talks.   The players they can get are more complimentary players.  Do you really want to use our remaining first for those?

So unless there is a player I really like, lets stick to the player for player swaps.  Even those are challenging with this roster.   It may suck because this season may continue to be a slog with the current roster, but it may be best to wait until the offseason where you are not paying such high prices for good, not great players.

Good call using a real estate analogy, this is a sellers market, not a buyers  where the sellers want ridiculous money for a home that's not worth the price. Every team is looking for moves to put them in a position of strength. So teams like Detroit, Toronto and others has some assets other teams can use, but they can sit on them if they don't get what they demand back in trades. It puts teams in a tough position giving up draft capital for moves that have no guarantees of working out. Personally, I wouldn't have touched Kyrie. You're always waiting on the next shoe to drop with him. He's a narcissist who only cares about himself. It just seems like a panic move by Dallas, which didn't have a choice to try to stay in the playoff race. Hope it works out.

[Jason Terry]

You forgot to list the teams willing to use those teams listed to get their payroll down enough to sign him. A list that we cannot know but might be out there. How many times are we fans gonna get kicked in the Gortats before we realize where there’s a will there’s a way with this sort of thing? IT JUST HAPPENED LAST OFFSEASON!

It always costs those teams picks to do that. In that case we just cut out the middle man and trade him to whatever team is willing to do that

[WildArkieBoy]

While I'm not sure exactly how the team will improve with the addition of Kyrie Irving, but I know I'm more than tired of one-man ball.

[ItsGoTime]

It always costs those teams picks to do that. In that case we just cut out the middle man and trade him to whatever team is willing to do that

Like we did with NYK last offseason.

[LukaMVP]

deal may turn out either way but it's one that had to be made. We ain't doing crap with the squad we had prior to the trade, and now we have some hope at least. 

when we got TC back then at the expense of DUST, it was also controversial to some extent when there were alternative targets seemingly better (for example iggy), and no one expected it would be such a huge success as it actually turned out to be.

[Guwop]

GREAT JOB CUBAN I LOVE ROOTING FOR A FRANCHISE WILLING TO TAKE RISKS. NIKO MAKES COMPLETE SENSE NOW. FINALLY GOT A BIG FISH! WE HAVE BEST BACKCOURT IN BASKETBALL NOW.  I’ll miss Dinwiddy and DFS! They play hard every night.

[HoosierDaddyKid]

This trade is the classic case of covering up a previous mistake (not resigning Brunson) with another potential mistake that's cost you a lot more than the first one.  Look. Brunson is no Kyrie, but he's having a pretty good season in NY. But  I have no doubt that if Kyrie is on his best behavior, he and Luka can be special. The question will be for how long?

[mvossman]

This trade is the classic case of covering up a previous mistake (not resigning Brunson) with another potential mistake that's cost you a lot more than the first one.  Look. Brunson is no Kyrie. But  I have no doubt that if Kyrie is on his best behavior, he and Luka can be special. The question will be for how long?

I don't think this is about covering up the Brunson mistake.  I think Cuban has had a fetish for getting stars since 2011.  My guess is if Brunson was still on this team he would have been part of the outgoing in this trade.

[DallasMaverick]

One benefit of the trade -- now we don't have to hear Kamm moan every day about how bad SD is, and how the Mavs need to trade him, and how he's the biggest negative on this roster.

In Kamm's posts it feels like he's now become a great player that the Mavs are going to miss badly!! LOL

We also don't have to hear F Gump moan about how cheap Cuban is!

[HoosierDaddyKid]

https://theathletic.com/4158681/2023/02/...mavericks/

[Chicagojk]

https://theathletic.com/4158681/2023/02/...mavericks/

pretty much sums up that he expects the smart team will watch their future first round picks tightly.   Keeping an eye on upcoming Durant sweepstakes and the possibility Luka becomes available within the next two years.

[DallasMaverick]

Good call using a real estate analogy, this is a sellers market, not a buyers  where the sellers want ridiculous money for a home that's not worth the price. Every team is looking for moves to put them in a position of strength. So teams like Detroit, Toronto and others has some assets other teams can use, but they can sit on them if they don't get what they demand back in trades. It puts teams in a tough position giving up draft capital for moves that have no guarantees of working out. Personally, I wouldn't have touched Kyrie. You're always waiting on the next shoe to drop with him. He's a narcissist who only cares about himself. It just seems like a panic move by Dallas, which didn't have a choice to try to stay in the playoff race. Hope it works out.

I'd like to point out that almost all of the unhappiness with Kyrie has to do with off-court issues.  His ability to play basketball has never been questioned.

Mavs bought low.