THE CRUCIFIX: Cato: Wood isn't thrilled w/ his role...Will depart in the summer

[mvossman]

Well, "we" aren't praising them for that trade. "We" are on record trashing that trade with a vengeance. 

But, you say "Sabonis is clearly a center," yet IND tried to play him with Turner for years. YEARS. It took Carlisle landing there for them to admit one of them had to go, finally. 

And, think what you want, but I can 100% promise you that people here would be calling Sabonis a PF if he played here. They said it with Porzingis, now they're saying it with Wood. I agree that he's "clearly a center." Wood, too, is clearly a center. Maybe not a good enough one, but a center.

Indy didn't have a choice because Sabonis and Turner were two of their best players.  No question they needed to move one of them long before they finally did (but can't complain about the return they finally got).

As good as Sabonis is offensively, I am skeptical a team can win a championship with somebody like him or Vuc or Kat anchoring the team.  Feel the same about Wood.

[KillerLeft]

As good as Sabonis is offensively, I am skeptical a team can win a championship with somebody like him or Vuc or Kat anchoring the team.  Feel the same about Wood.

And hey, that skepticism is valid. I'm right there with you. 

Doesn't mean the situation is improved playing them out of position. Worsened, if anything. 

They're either good enough or they're NOT. Playing them in a spot where their speed and quickness is even more guaranteed to be a huge issue compounds the problem. 

Two bigs = twice the "yuck" for me. I'd rather play 0 bigs than 2. (hyperbole - I'd obviously rather play 1 really good one)

[mvossman]

And hey, that skepticism is valid. I'm right there with you. 

Doesn't mean the situation is improved playing them out of position. Worsened, if anything. 

They're either good enough or they're NOT. Playing them in a spot where their speed and quickness is even more guaranteed to be a huge issue compounds the problem. 

Two bigs = twice the "yuck" for me. I'd rather play 0 bigs than 2. (hyperbole - I'd obviously rather play 1 really good one)

So I am looking at this a little differently.  I am thinking two bigs but no traditional bigs.  You could almost think of it as two PF and no center.  Powell, Maxi and Collins all have the mobility to play PF and the size to play small ball center.  Putting two of those guys on the court at the same time gives you more length and rebounding without sacrificing the ability to play a switch heavy defense.  We could still play plenty of minutes with one of those guys as a single big, providing even more lineup flexibility.

[ItsGoTime]

So I am looking at this a little differently.  I am thinking two bigs but no traditional bigs.  You could almost think of it as two PF and no center.  Powell, Maxi and Collins all have the mobility to play PF and the size to play small ball center.  Putting two of those guys on the court at the same time gives you more length and rebounding without sacrificing the ability to play a switch heavy defense.  We could still play plenty of minutes with one of those guys as a single big, providing even more lineup flexibility.

This is no different than GSW with Green and Looney. They play heavy minutes together.

[KillerLeft]

So I am looking at this a little differently.  I am thinking two bigs but no traditional bigs.  You could almost think of it as two PF and no center.  Powell, Maxi and Collins all have the mobility to play PF and the size to play small ball center.  Putting two of those guys on the court at the same time gives you more length and rebounding without sacrificing the ability to play a switch heavy defense.  We could still play plenty of minutes with one of those guys as a single big, providing even more lineup flexibility.

And that's rad! Love it! 

Right up to the point where you say (and this is more of @"DanSchwartzgan"'s argument than yours) that one of those guys can ONLY be played with another one, as in "______ can't be played as a solo big."  At that point, if the statement is correct, I flatly don't want that player in my rotation. THAT is NOT flexibility.

You might disagree with this, which is fine, but just to be clear, while I like what you're selling above (it is flexibility, as long as it's just an option), I suspect it would be less useful from a frequency of use perspective than playing one big...unless you happen to have two uncommonly skilled and athletic guys at once. Idk, maybe that would differ from coach to coach.

[mvossman]

And that's rad! Love it! 

Right up to the point where you say (and this is more of @"DanSchwartzgan"'s argument than yours) that one of those guys can ONLY be played with another one, as in "______ can't be played as a solo big."  At that point, if the statement is correct, I flatly don't want that player in my rotation. THAT is NOT flexibility.

You might disagree with this, which is fine, but just to be clear, while I like what you're selling above (it is flexibility, as long as it's just an option), I suspect it would be less useful from a frequency of use perspective than playing one big...unless you happen to have two uncommonly skilled and athletic guys at once. Idk, maybe that would differ from coach to coach.

I don't think the argument is (or really ever has been) that a player has to play with another player.  I think some combinations work better than others generally.  Any two of Collins/Maxi/Powell should work but I would argue Collins/Maxi probably makes the most sense and Collins/Powell the least.  

I also don't think it would be an issue to have any two of those guys on the court defensively.  Maxi and Powell have played a lot of minutes together without hit to defense (the bigger issue being two offensively limited players which is not a problem with Collins).

[KillerLeft]

I don't think the argument is (or really ever has been) that a player has to play with another player. 

I beg to differ. That is exactly what some people are saying. Not you, quite that extremely.

[KillerLeft]

Maxi and Powell have played a lot of minutes together without hit to defense (the bigger issue being two offensively limited players which is not a problem with Collins).

Love the Kleber/Powell option. Because it's an option. Both can and do play well without the other, too. 

Again, I'll caution that we pump the brakes on assuming Collins is some polished offensive player consistently. He might be, and I'm sure he's more skilled with the ball than either of those two, but I doubt he can do the things Wood can do on offense, quite frankly. He might be a better pick and roll guy (but idk, Wood seems pretty damn good to me) but again, from everything I've read and heard from my ATL fan friends, they think he's not really special at forward. As in, "not worth his contract" not special. It might be a good get, so I'm not trying to crap on it, and judging by how it's going here with Wood I'd probably do it.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Again, I'll caution that we pump the brakes on assuming Collins is some polished offensive player consistently. He might be, and I'm sure he's more skilled with the ball than either of those two, but I doubt he can do the things Wood can do on offense, quite frankly. He might be a better pick and roll guy (but idk, Wood seems pretty damn good to me) but again, from everything I've read and heard from my ATL fan friends, they think he's not really special at forward. As in, "not worth his contract" not special. It might be a good get, so I'm not trying to crap on it, and judging by how it's going here with Wood I'd probably do it.

Agreed on skill.
Wood > Collins

Wood is better at most things, can handle the ball better, has a better face-up game, is more crafty, can post-up, can dribble the length of the court and end-up with a lay-up or dunk, has better vision, a better 3 ball, a better rebounder, etc. Overall - a big who's more than competent on the offensive end scoring by himself or assisted. Collins could be better than Wood at lobs and PNR play, but not entirely sure about that too. 

Not going to go with stats such as blocks for the defensive end, Wood can equally block shots when he goes up to contest shots, but as far as overall defense goes, Collins is better. But not by a wide margin. Still, he is the better defender and that counts with a quasi-coach like Kidd.

*I don't see Wood as Mav next season, so they better trade him now than lose him later. If Collins is the eventual replacement, it's one more player who can't dribble/play-make so better have another guy from the TDL who can, to come along with Collins (from the Hawks or thru some other team).

[KillerLeft]

*I don't see Wood as Mav next season, so they better trade him now than lose him later. If Collins is the eventual replacement, it's one more player who can't dribble/play-make so better have another guy from the TDL who can, to come along with Collins (from the Hawks or thru some other team).

This is where I am, too. I would do the deal for Collins I think, as it would add stability and legitimacy in some important ways. But, if they're going to play him at the 4, and I bet they are, I would much rather go after a guy like Siakim. That might be pipe dreaming, and I get that, but even a poor man's version...like a Jerami Grant type, would be better for this team, imo.

[cow]

This is where I am, too. I would do the deal for Collins I think, as it would add stability and legitimacy in some important ways. But, if they're going to play him at the 4, and I bet they are, I would much rather go after a guy like Siakim. That might be pipe dreaming, and I get that, but even a poor man's version...like a Jerami Grant type, would be better for this team, imo.

Siakim would be great but I just don't see a path to him.  I'm also a little weary of an all in move until our foundation is a little more solid.

[Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo]

Just a thought: How good would Christian Wood look if you have him coached by Don Nelson or DÁntoni?
He'd fit right in with the 2003 Mavs or the seven seconds or less Suns.

[dirkfansince1998]

This is where I am, too. I would do the deal for Collins I think, as it would add stability and legitimacy in some important ways. But, if they're going to play him at the 4, and I bet they are, I would much rather go after a guy like Siakim. That might be pipe dreaming, and I get that, but even a poor man's version...like a Jerami Grant type, would be better for this team, imo.

Grant is averaging 22.6ppg. Shooting 45.3% from 3 on 6 attempts per game. That´s the best poor man´s version of all time. Not sure if his trade value is any lower than Siakam´s.

[KillerLeft]

Grant is averaging 22.6ppg. Shooting 45.3% from 3 on 6 attempts per game. That´s the best poor man´s version of all time. Not sure if his trade value is any lower than Siakam´s.

Touché. I stand behind my point regarding player type needed at the 4. Are there any examples of that who might be available?

[dirkfansince1998]

Touché. I stand behind my point regarding player type needed at the 4. Are there any examples of that who might be available?

Type. Yes. But unless you think about an all in trade for a player like Siakam or Grant we are talking about real poor man´s versions with major flaws.

Kyle Kuzma brings the offense but is not as good or versatile on defense.
Jonathan Isaac brings the defense and has shown flashes on offense but he might be a Kyrie level headcase and cannot stay healthy.
Saddiq Bey has the frame and has shown flashes but hasn´t really improved since his sophomore season.
Same for Patrick Williams.
PJ Washington is having a down year and doesn´t bring the elite kind of versatility the Mavs need. More like mediocre all around. Can do a little bit of everything.
Same for Rui Hachimura.
OG Anunoby might be a little bit undersized but he brings the full package on defense and can somewhat handle the ball on offense. Probably also outside the Mavs price range.

Could also include a number of veterans that at least can play that role on defense. Batum, RoCo, Kyle Anderson, Crowder.

[IamDougieFresh]

https://twitter.com/bibscorner/status/16...80928?s=46&t=g_ag6jELo37NcQirecqzrA

[KillerLeft]

Saddiq Bey has the frame and has shown flashes but hasn´t really improved since his sophomore season.
Same for Patrick Williams.
PJ Washington is having a down year and doesn´t bring the elite kind of versatility the Mavs need. More like mediocre all around. Can do a little bit of everything.
Same for Rui Hachimura.
OG Anunoby might be a little bit undersized but he brings the full package on defense and can somewhat handle the ball on offense. Probably also outside the Mavs price range.

I think of PJ as more of a 5, tbh, but agree he can play 4, and I would GLADLY take anyone on this list.

[IamDougieFresh]

https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1603...16610?s=20&t=zH-GPdGkoHt2STjo5EnFTQ

[cow]

Live footage Jason Kidd with the square peg that is "Mavs basketball".

[KillerLeft]

Without Kleber available (which sucks, regardless of where you are on the Wood spectrum), I have a feeling we're about to get as much Wood as we can possibly handle, and probably in a wider variety of capacities.