TRADE: Dinwiddie + Bertans to DAL | KP + 2nd to WAS

[KillerLeft]

Re: getting rid of KP, even at this return...

If you guys think Luka didn't sign off on this, you're crazy. 

Not saying that makes it right if you don't like it, but if Luka didn't buy the deal, it wouldn't have been done. I honestly believe those two dudes didn't like each other very much.

[SleepingHero]

The Athletic is giving Mavs a C for this trade, Bleacher is giving us a D.

Too generous.

[fifteenth]

You can’t hate KP so much that you overlook a terrible return or overlook how the other team was desperate to get rid of these players. 

 If you are going to justify it by saying we got a better fit that’s fine. But at this point we gave up the more talented and younger player. Get a FRP or don’t budge. That’s all most are saying. Instead we not only did not get a pick but threw in a 2nd round pick too. You can sell me somewhat on the players. You can’t sell me at all on the asset mgmt part.  That is where I have the biggest problem.

I don't hate KP. He's just not what I thought he was.

His combination of not wanting to be considered a center, demanding how he thinks he should be played, getting frustrated over visibly not getting passes (the guy is all about HIMSELF), his lack of availability, his poor shooting, and that he has to be in optimal condition to do anything on defense ALL point to the fact the his contract is actually worse than having the two smaller bad contracts. 

Plus there is at least a little hope with the new guys. Kidd and Luka might rehab these guys a bit. These smaller contracts are more useful in subsequent deals. There wasn't much hope left with KP. He could go in and get his numbers but he didn't move the needle at all on making the team play better. The non-KP Mavs have played better than the KP Mavs. 

I cheered for ya, KP. But glad your gone.

[DrMav]

You can’t hate KP so much that you overlook a terrible return or overlook how the other team was desperate to get rid of these players. 

 If you are going to justify it by saying we got a better fit that’s fine. But at this point we gave up the more talented and younger player. Get a FRP or don’t budge. That’s all most are saying. Instead we not only did not get a pick but threw in a 2nd round pick too. You can sell me somewhat on the players. You can’t sell me at all on the asset mgmt part.  That is where I have the biggest problem.

Yep, we should have gotten the pick. Mavs are the ones who gave up the current best on-court player and took on longer money. Wiz should have been throwing in a 1st rounder for that. With health concerns maybe they negotiate it down to a couple 2nds, but the fact that we had to put in the 2nd baffles me.

[SatnamSingh]

How is Dinwiddies defense?

lol

[fifteenth]

This isn't the deal I expected for KP, and I get why people hate it. But set aside the initial reaction, and I think there's something to learn here about the type of team Dallas wants to build.

Looking at the roster, there are some clear archetypes developing:

Luka/Brunson -- offensive initiators
THJ/Dinwiddie -- bigger gunners
DFS/Bullock -- 3&D wings
Maxi/Bertans -- floor-spacing 4s
Powell/Chriss -- rim-rolling centers

I agree with the observations that Dallas is moving on from the "run plays for your frontcourt guy on the block" offense and committing to ball movement. Now how it works on defense is TBD, but it'll be interesting to see how the overall team adjusts to the new paradigm.

Tyler, this is outstanding! Well done, sir.

[cow]

We need another big.  Chriss is kind of bad and fouls like his life depends on it.

[SatnamSingh]

Lol almost every team wants the same archetypes.  This is not some breakthrough on the Mavs part.

The point is about value.  Dinwiddie and Bertans are bums on long term deals.  Even if they'll be better here (not a given), their value is still based on how AWFUL they've been so far this year.  They're two of the worst players in the NBA right now and both signed to lucrative long term deals.

[cow]

Someone update the KP thread to "End of an Error"

[HoosierDaddyKid]

West is weak this year so you might get a second round.  We are nowhere near the likes of the Suns, Chicago, 76ers, Memphis, Chicago, etc.

Our best option this summer is to lock in Jalen and then you've got a tandem on par with Dame/CJ.  How'd that work out?  You've then got a year left of Powell and multiple years left of Dinwiddie and Bertans who are equally untradeable.  We might as well have attached a FRP to KP and looked for an someone expiring much sooner.

Besides Phoenix, GS, and Memphis, The East is better this year. Brooklyn won the Harden trade, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Chicago, Boston, maybe Philly,  Miami, and Toronto. The pendulum has swung.

[KillerLeft]

but the fact that we had to put in the 2nd baffles me.

I was surprised at first, too.

I think it should tell us something about how two, smaller bad contracts are preferred over one, huge one, even if the money is the same, overall. 

People are acting like the Mavs did a salary dump for WAS, and I get how they're looking at it that way (added a year of hell, potentially). But that pick signals to me that it was Dallas trying to dump KP, not the other way around. 

Can't say this enough: they just flat out wanted KP off the team. That was the biggest goal here.

[SleepingHero]

Yep. As @dirkfansince1998 said, this is all setting up this summer while not screwing with what the Mavs have going right now.

How many times have we heard that before with the Mavs?

The fact we couldn't get a guy like Kispert is insane to me.

[hakeemfaan]

I don't hate KP. He's just not what I thought he was.

His combination of not wanting to be considered a center, demanding how he thinks he should be played, getting frustrated over visibly not getting passes (the guy is all about HIMSELF), his lack of availability, his poor shooting, and that he has to be in optimal condition to do anything on defense ALL point to the fact the his contract is actually worse than having the two smaller bad contracts. 

Plus there is at least a little hope with the new guys. Kidd and Luka might rehab these guys a bit. These smaller contracts are more useful in subsequent deals. There wasn't much hope left with KP. He could go in and get his numbers but he didn't move the needle at all on making the team play better. The non-KP Mavs have played better than the KP Mavs. 

I cheered for ya, KP. But glad your gone.

Look at my posts for the last couple of months. I have been very consistent in wanting KP gone mainly because he misses so many games. I was not even looking at the on court fit with Luka. 

So it is not that I am upset in any way about KP being gone. I am upset that whenever there is a trade the Mavs are the ones always capitulating.  We should absolutely have asked for a FRP and stood firm. I don’t care how well Bertans or Dimwiddie might fit here or play here. Great if they do, but at this point we should have got a pick. Not only did we not do that but we gave up a 2nd round pick. 

I am the same guy who said when everyone was giddy at the KP trade that I would have held off on 2 FRP for him.  At that point folks here or the previous board were trying to say why those picks didn’t matter. 

Picks and assets matter. They always do.  If Washington was not budging.  Fine. Move on and punt this to summer to see if a better deal could be made. There is nothing so enticing here with what we got back that this deal had to be done right now.

[KillerLeft]

We need another big.  Chriss is kind of bad and fouls like his life depends on it.

Yes, finding someone on the buyout market who could push Chriss out of everyday backup 5 role would be my top priority right now, short term. 

On the other hand, if you truly don't expect them to do well, you might prefer to invest playoff minutes into him. Me? I don't think this deal hurts their chances in the least. They are primed to do just as well in this year's playoffs as they were yesterday. No more, no less. I'd be looking for a buyout 5.

[MaxiThreeba]

This isn't the deal I expected for KP, and I get why people hate it. But set aside the initial reaction, and I think there's something to learn here about the type of team Dallas wants to build.

Looking at the roster, there are some clear archetypes developing:

Luka/Brunson -- offensive initiators
THJ/Dinwiddie -- bigger gunners
DFS/Bullock -- 3&D wings
Maxi/Bertans -- floor-spacing 4s
Powell/Chriss -- rim-rolling centers

I agree with the observations that Dallas is moving on from the "run plays for your frontcourt guy on the block" offense and committing to ball movement. Now how it works on defense is TBD, but it'll be interesting to see how the overall team adjusts to the new paradigm.

Appreciate your take on this.

If they snag Dragic in the buyout market then I think you could make some adjustments to your list and notice who the odd man out is:

Luka/Dinwiddie - High usage ball handlers
Brunson/Dragic - Secondary initiators with veteran game (and of course lefties)

Keeping your other three archetypes in place and building off multiple reports of what they were trying to do today I think THJ is the odd man out.  I have to believe they were doing everything they could to turn him into a center today and will revisit that on draft night, potentially attaching that pick to THJ's contract.

[SleepingHero]

Bertans and Dinwiddie at least look more than serviceable in the rotation.

Once I sober up I think I'll start to agree with this statement more.

Then I look at Bertans shooting 32% on 4 threes in FIFTEEN minutes a game, makes me want to drink more. 

Boy if we thought THJ was a gunner, just wait until you see Bertans!

[Mavs2021]

Wizards fans unanimously are celebrating their GM as the GOAT for getting rid of Bertans/Dinwiddie without giving up a pick. They also all concede that this means Thomas Bryant is gone in the summer.

So here is another question:

Why in the world do you not insist to ADD Thomas Bryant to the trade, if necessary via the TPE.

The Wizards are tanking. Bryant is expiring.

Thomas Bryant is 24 years old. Last year he averaged 14/6, shooting 64% from the field, 42% from 3pt range.

I guess the Mavs didn´t want him either, right.

[Hypermav]

Can't say this enough: they just flat out wanted KP off the team.

I agree and that is why it bothers me less than I thought it might.  Luka had to agree with this.

[SleepingHero]

Not saying that makes it right if you don't like it, but if Luka didn't buy the deal, it wouldn't have been done. I honestly believe those two dudes didn't like each other very much.

Given the fact that Luka doesn't like mid-season trades as he said in his rookie year, then you might be onto something.

Still. I need more of a concrete statement of Luka's approval himself than reading the tea leaves trying to explain a catastrophic trade. 

I understand they really wanted to get off KP. Why not choose the deal that gets you a first AND Luka's buddy Goran then? Why take back 2 of the worst contracts in the league? 

I seriously hope to eat crow. Back to my whisky.

[cow]

Look at my posts for the last couple of months. I have been very consistent in wanting KP gone mainly because he misses so many games. I was not even looking at the on court fit with Luka. 

So it is not that I am upset in any way about KP being gone. I am upset that whenever there is a trade the Mavs are the ones always capitulating.  We should absolutely have asked for a FRP and stood firm. I don’t care how well Bertans or Dimwiddie might fit here or play here. Great if they do, but at this point we should have got a pick. Not only did we not do that but we gave up a 2nd round pick. 

I am the same guy who said when everyone was giddy at the KP trade that I would have held off on 2 FRP for him.  At that point folks here or the previous board were trying to say why those picks didn’t matter. 

Picks and assets matter. They always do.  If Washington was not budging.  Fine. Move on and punt this to summer to see if a better deal could be made. There is nothing so enticing here with what we got back that this deal had to be done right now.

Dating myself a bit but our stance on KP reminds me of one of Bill Hicks sketches.

• Bill Hicks : [about the Gulf War]  It was a very stressful time for me, the war. I'll tell you why - I was in the unenviable position of being for the war, but against the troops. And ah... Not the most popular stance I've ever taken on an issue.

We have seemingly put yourself in a worse long-term position and spent an asset to do so.  We could have just taken the PR hit and given KP the John Wall treatment.