Ranking the Mavs' non-Luka/KP players

[Scott41theMavs]

Yeah, Fuerza has some sort of agenda against Seth. Seth was way more than just a spot-up three-shooter for the Mavs three years ago. Seth is playing poorly overall this year, but I suspect that Fuerza's main agenda has to do with his avatar.

Zero agenda. Lets look at the facts:

Seth has the second worst on/off court on the team at -13.6; since becoming the starter, he's at a -27.1! His defensive rating has been the worst on the team in that span.

Maybe you don't like those "advanced analytics" anymore. That's okay. Lets look at the basics:

Since becoming the starter, Seth is averaging 37% from the field, 33% from 3PT, 1 apg, 1 rpg. This is like looking at a Barnes box score a year ago. At least Seth did well against powerhouses in CLE and MEM though.

I don't dispute at all that Seth has played poorly this year. I'm not part of the "start Seth" crew. However, you have been his biggest basher this year. Taking into account that two seasons ago was a lost year to injury for Seth, he 1) was far more than just a spot-up three shooter for the Mavs three seasons ago, and 2) last year had good analytics as an on-ball guard. We ought to be seeing better numbers (including advanced analytics) from him than we're getting.

I think it's clear that Wright was signed to be a starter. We need to stop catering to his touches whinging and start him.

Wright
Luka
DFS
KP
Maxi

Brunson
Curry
Justin
Powell
Bobi

THJ
JJB
RFA

[burekemde]

1) Wright

2) Kleber

3) Boban

4) KP

5) JJ

6) DFS

7) THJ

8) Curry

9) Powell

Had to include KP since he has not been the 2nd best player IMO.

[Scott41theMavs]

1) Wright

2) Kleber

3) Boban

4) KP

5) JJ

6) DFS

7) THJ

8) Curry

9) Powell

Had to include KP since he has not been the 2nd best player IMO.

Where's Brunson?

[burekemde]

1) Wright

2) Kleber

3) Boban

4) KP

5) JJ

6) DFS

7) THJ

8) Curry

9) Powell

Had to include KP since he has not been the 2nd best player IMO.

Where's Brunson?

1) Wright
2) Kleber
3) Boban
4) KP
5) Brunson
6) JJ
7) DFS
8) THJ
9) Curry
10) Powell


Thanks for pointing Brunson out to me. To me its clear the best 5 are Luka, Wright, Kleber, Boban and KP. If we can put all of them in the same unit, as a monster big lineup, i think it would create something special. In any case i want to see more of Kleber and Boban and we are going to be tough to breakdown and push around as we are now. Same goes with more Wright, we will have more toughness on D and IQ on offense. Players on this list starting from KP and down are inconsitent and have quiet a bit of ups and downs, not reliable starter material. Luka, Wright, Kleber, Boban are the only 4 on this roster that consistently produce. Thats the starters, the one that are consistent and that produce regardless of matchup. The ones other teams need to adjust for, not the other way around.

There is a big drop off starting and including KP and the below players, and compared to Luka, Wright, Kleber and Boban. DFS has not been productive enough. He averages 26 minutes, and 7.9 PPG while shooting 28.6%, with all the great passes from Luka, thats really bad.

The only starter material in the players from 4-9 are KP and JJ. KP given that he has potential to be much more consistent than he is now as he is recovering. JJ has been super efficient when given the chance and all his stats have improved per minute. The rest of these are all backup material and the less we play them the better IMO. Need to go more heavy minutes in for Wright, Kleber, Boban and KP as well as JJ, if we want to make a serious playoff push. And develop a new style of play around very very big lineups!

[Scott41theMavs]

The hiatus didn't last long. I checked out box scores and highlights from the first two games in the streak, and watched the last three games. This is can't-miss Mavs fandom time. Luka is transcendent, while KP is developing in the one area of the game we expected to excel at (defense and rim protection), as well as many things I don't think they saw in NY (significant improvement on the boards, great dirty work and team play). His offense will come around. 

The rankings as of now...
1) THJ. I can't believe I just typed that. I'm not sure he will ever be worth that damned contract, but if he plays as he did during this five-game streak consistently, he will. If nothing else, his improved play skyrockets his trade value from albatross negative to slightly negative. The Mavs will have to determine whether they want to #$%@ with the chemistry enough to make a big deal. 

2) DFS. Goodness gracious, the two players most responsible for me taking the hiatus in the first place top the list! Defense, dirty work, complementary play... Still not yet an average starter, but getting there.

3) Wright. Still the best signing of the offseason. Defense, attacking the rim, good decision-making... I put DFS above him this week because playing with Luka was supposed to raise his 3p%. Not yet. 

4) Brunson. Excellent, crafty play every time he gets burn. Why is he getting so little? Another player who needs to spend lots of time in the gym shooting threes. 

5) Kleber. While his defense on Siakam was key to the win, Maxi has been overmatched at times and not so great offensively. 

6) Justin. Still not playing as often as he should. Hopefully his minutes will increase as the season goes on. Perhaps the Mavs' most efficient offensive player. 

7) Boban. It's disappointing that he was effective in the two blowouts, but not used at all in the competitive games. 

8) Curry. Bad time to get sick, dude. But it contributed to seeing the impact THJ could have playing next to Luka and learning to play within himself. Seth had good contributions to the first two games.

9) JJB. Fun to see him in the Cavs blowout. I think he could help the team in bursts if he were needed - and he may be, if a major trade is made that ships out a couple of the guys ahead of him for a single player.

10) Powell. Still not impressed, at all. The Mavs' biggest upgrade necessity. 

11) Ryan from accounting. Good to see him get burn in the blowouts. Still think his shooting could help the Mavs once in a while. 

12) Lee. That's it, Court. Jack up that trade value.

[Fuerza1]

My new list:

1.) THJ - looking like a legit 3rd option, playing more team ball with starters.

2.) DFS - starting to hit more 3's finally, still crashing the boards and bringing the hustle.

3.) Brunson - been sneaky good the last 5 games, just too bad he can't get more playing time.

4.) Wright - consistent defense and presence but offense is starting to fade a bit imo; not a primary ball handler. 

5.) JJax - still love his skill set in this system, and had a great performance vs CLE; needs more opportunity to develop consistency. 

6.) Kleber - been a little quiet recently, still bringing the defense though.

7.) Powell - overpaid, limited player but he's still battling hard and staying within himself on offense. 

8.) - ???) - who cares

[SportPsychMav]

Mavs are extremely deep. We have no bad player on the team. That's crazy.

[dirkfansince1998]

Recency bias is strong in the latest rankings. I actually like the power ranking style but for the whole season I would not put THJ and DFS at 3) and 4).
Just for comparisation. THJ is still last in FG% and second last in TS%. Maxi for example has a better 3-point % despite his recent cold stretch.

[Scott41theMavs]

Recency bias is strong in the latest rankings. I actually like the power ranking style but for the whole season I would not put THJ and DFS at 3) and 4).
Just for comparisation. THJ is still last in FG% and second last in TS%. Maxi for example has a better 3-point % despite his recent cold stretch.

Power rankings do include recency bias... how would you rank these 12?

[dirkfansince1998]

Recency bias is strong in the latest rankings. I actually like the power ranking style but for the whole season I would not put THJ and DFS at 3) and 4).
Just for comparisation. THJ is still last in FG% and second last in TS%. Maxi for example has a better 3-point % despite his recent cold stretch.

Power rankings do include recency bias... how would you rank these 12?

They do but players jumping from last two first is a little bit to much for me. I would still have Kleber and Wright at 3/4. Probably followed by THJ. Powell and Seth are the "losers" of the last two weeks.

[ClutchDirk]

Our top 3 players scored 95 points yesterday...

Just saying...

[Scott41theMavs]

Our top 3 players scored 95 points yesterday...

Just saying...

That's good enough to win a game back in the bad old days of the early '90s.

[SportPsychMav]

Recency bias is strong in the latest rankings. I actually like the power ranking style but for the whole season I would not put THJ and DFS at 3) and 4).
Just for comparisation. THJ is still last in FG% and second last in TS%. Maxi for example has a better 3-point % despite his recent cold stretch.

Power rankings do include recency bias... how would you rank these 12?

They do but players jumping from last two first is a little bit to much for me. I would still have Kleber and Wright at 3/4. Probably followed by THJ. Powell and Seth are the "losers" of the last two weeks.

Why did Seth drop now? He played good, then got ill.

Right now it's Luka, Kleber, Zinger, all others aren't consistent enough yet to rank for me.

[fifteenth]

Why did Seth drop now? He played good, then got ill.

Right now it's Luka, Kleber, Zinger, all others aren't consistent enough yet to rank for me.

You don't think Delon and DFS are consistent? They might be the two most consistent players not named Luka. I agree with Maxi being in that group too.

[SportPsychMav]

Why did Seth drop now? He played good, then got ill.

Right now it's Luka, Kleber, Zinger, all others aren't consistent enough yet to rank for me.

You don't think Delon and DFS are consistent? They might be the two most consistent players not named Luka. I agree with Maxi being in that group too.

Wright is so low key he skipped out of my mind while writing this post. He is invisible, he is very similar to Luka in a lot of ways.

Not consistent for me to rank. Doesn't mean not consistent at all.

I think Delon hasn't fully arrived yet. I love his game but there is still room. I love his timeskipping. He is low-key and unselfish. His bet ability for me is to control the game. When Luka is out he uses his time manipulation ability to stop opposing runs, gives his team a breather.

If I'm forced to I put him at 4th

Luka, Maxi/Porzingis, Delon 

Can't really rank Finney yet.

[dirkfansince1998]

Recency bias is strong in the latest rankings. I actually like the power ranking style but for the whole season I would not put THJ and DFS at 3) and 4).
Just for comparisation. THJ is still last in FG% and second last in TS%. Maxi for example has a better 3-point % despite his recent cold stretch.

Power rankings do include recency bias... how would you rank these 12?

They do but players jumping from last two first is a little bit to much for me. I would still have Kleber and Wright at 3/4. Probably followed by THJ. Powell and Seth are the "losers" of the last two weeks.

Why did Seth drop now? He played good, then got ill.

Right now it's Luka, Kleber, Zinger, all others aren't consistent enough yet to rank for me.

Wouldn´t say that Seth got any worse but THJ, Brunson and Wright all had a good week and the Mavs played their best basketball of the season without him.
I agree on your overall take that the three mentioned guys are probably the easiest to rank. KP despite his early struggles is getting better and even though he hasn´t played like the second best player on the team in the early games he is clearly the most talented behind Luka. Kleber always contributes. Even on a bad shooting night his defense is a valuable asset for the Mavs. We don´t need to talk about Luka. He is one pace to break all sophomore records and leads the MVP race.

Rest of the team has more question marks and we don´t know who is going to perform best on a given night.
Delon was probably the most consistent among them. THJ has both the best and worst games among those guys.

Only guys that really stands out as playing worse than he did last year is Powell. It´s painful to watch him on defense. He is getting bullied by players that are at least 5-6 inches smaller than he is and is completly outmatched against any real bigman.

[Scott41theMavs]

Only guys that really stands out as playing worse than he did last year is Powell. It´s painful to watch him on defense. He is getting bullied by players that are at least 5-6 inches smaller than he is and is completly outmatched against any real bigman.

He's also getting about 4.4 rebounds a contest in 26 mpg. That's putrid for a big man. No defense, no rebounds, the other teams have reduced his lob capabilities (often by undercutting him, tbh). $10 mil a year is a lot to pay for hustle and dirty work.

[Scott41theMavs]

Updated based on the past three games...

1) Wright. The Laker game showed us what a difference maker he could be for the Mavs. His line in the Suns game was unimpressive, except for his team-leading +20 =/-.

2) THJ. Fell a bit back to earth in the two LA games (especially the Laker game) but huge in the Suns game, as he had been the week before.

3) Maxi. Played poorly against the Clippers, and his offensive game has been off, but still contributing on rebounds and defense. 

4) Justin. Played a huge offensive role in the Laker game. Hope it results in more minutes.

5) DFS. Still our resident dirty worker, along with Maxi, Wright, and (!) KP. Represents the team's scrappiness in the starting lineup, contributing those OR's. Fell a bit back to earth this week.

6) Brunson. He isn't hurting the team when he plays, unlike some of the previous games. Seems to have adapted well to his bench partnership with Wright. Needs more minutes. 

7)  JJB. Just one appearance this week, giving the team a late spark against the Clipps. Don't have a sense that he's going to be playing very often this year without a trade that dumps one or more of Brunson, Seth, or Wright (who should only be traded for a very good starter). 

8) Powell. Had a nice breakout game in all phases of the game against the Lakers. If he starts to do something like that most games moving forward, he will rise on this list.

9) Seth. Slumping since returning from injury. Showed well in the Clipps game to little avail.

10) Boban. Speaks well for the team that he has fallen this far when his only crime is not getting minutes. I'm still a bit disturbed that we only play three bigs.

11) RFA. No burn this week. Still like him better than Lee.

12) Lee. Hope you didn't unpack all of your boxes.

[Scott41theMavs]

Ranking as of 12/9/19:

1) Wright. How can I put him so high on this list after 2 somewhat weak offensive games, a game in which he was injured, and a game he missed? Because of that last one. The bench absolutely collapsed without him. Third most-important current Mavs player, by a big margin. 

2) Hardaway. He was off offensively before the Kings game, but the threat that he'll get hot is often enough. 

3) JJB. Good things happen when he plays, even when his shot isn't falling. 

4) Bobi. Hard to put him lower after that monster game. 


5) Brunson. I'm actually tempted to put him lower after the Kings game, but that Wolves game... second Pels game was good, too. 

6) DFS. As I've said before, he's a spare, but he's our spare, and he plays with heart and energy. Being one of Luka's best buds on the team (along with Barea and Bobi, afaics) helps too.

7) Powell. He doesn't always hit all of his shots, but at least he's playing hard and looks more comfortable. He'll never be a worthy starter for a contender, but that isn't his fault. If he can hit that three consistently to complement the rim rolls, he deserves some court time. 

8) Curry. Was great against the Pels, and part of the problem against the Kings. 

9) Kleber. Another one whose ranking is hurt because of the Kings game. However, he's still a huge part of why the bench is usually good, with his defense and chipping in a bit on offense, and would certainly be ranked above Powell if Powell hadn't had that huge game against the Wolves.

10) Justin. Rough week for the young man. 

11) Lee. Showed well in garbage time. 

12) RFA. Inactive this week.

[J0n]

1. Luka
2. Dodo
3. Broekhoff
4. THJ
5. JJB
6. KP
7. Kleber
8. Dwight
9. Justin Jackson
10. not jalen brunson