Mavs 127, Clippers 121

[fifteenth]

I would give up a toenail to see that!

I lost one to the top of a concrete wheel stop recently

[dirkfansince1998]

Carlisle doesn't seem to have that strategy and certainly doesn't have Boban in his rotations for playing purposes. 

RC coached the 00s Pistons and Pacers (Pacers in the "Malace at the Palace" season). He certainly knows a thing about enforcers and goons. And it´s not like the championship team lacked the "DAWG" nature. Stevenson had a bad reputation (similar to PatBev). Butler as well. Cardinal had two jobs. Hard fouls and 3-point shooting. Kidd was the original master of the sneaky dirty play. Nowadays it is CP3.

I don´t think RC is a fan of those kind of things. He would never openly encourage his team to go after a player or allow Harrell´s and Pat Bev´s chirping.

Personally I don´t want the Mavs to turn into a "dirty" team but more toughness wouldn´t hurt. A hard foul every now and then just to send a message. Especially against players that like to flop or try to draw fouls. A no layups/dunks/fastbreaks approach. Make them earn it on the FT line.
Just a more physical play style in general. Boxouts, defense, screens. Right now Luka is by far the most physical player on the team but he is also the one guy that cannot get in foul trouble. Guys like WCS or Powell don´t have to worry about foul trouble. Same for the rest of the bench guys.

I guess the Mavs added Johnson to fill that role but this isn´t the MMA. If a guy cannot get on the floor because he lacks bball skills the rest doesn´t matter. Wouldn´t mind another attempt to add a guy that brings all the intangibles (leadership, toughness...). Be it a small guard like McConnell (pesky waterbug guard that loves to full court press and doesn´t shy away from contact) or a wing/big like Tucker/Batum/Millsap.

[mavsluvr]

I lost one to the top of a concrete wheel stop recently

https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m61wt...o1_400.gif

[Scott41theMavs]

Actually the idea of Boban as an enforcer is in theory an excellent one.  NBA teams used to actually send in guys now and then that were essentially designated GOONS. 
That's for real, but I think today that role has kind of evolved into one that's more subtle where real rotation players, like say a Morris Twin, still in fact deliberately foul, hold and harass key players while avoiding being seen as the instigator by a referee. 

The old Goons didn't try much to hide it, they just came in and threw a hard foul or two or three because they have the fouls to spare.  

With Boban this only works in theory I think because 

1) Boban doesn't seem to have that real DAWG in his nature.  Who knows though, maybe he could surprise if actually given the task. 

2) Carlisle doesn't seem to have that strategy and certainly doesn't have Boban in his rotations for playing purposes. 

It would be great to see Boban used like that because he plays limited minutes, is more often a + in the +/- and despite his PnR challenges can give more than he takes from his team.  That said, its not going to happen, but it would be a lot of fun to see Bobi really laying his body on some Clippers.  

Don't forget Bobi's recent Flagrant 2 ejection. Man's an animal.

[Dahlsim]

I would give up a toenail to see that!

I'll donate a toenail to that pot ML, in fact put me down for 2 toenails although taking one off could be pretty painful ya think?  
You first.

---

Don't forget Bobi's recent Flagrant 2 ejection. Man's an animal.

Yeah, that was a real tease showing us he could have a bit of a tough side. 
Just an unfair tease. 

[Dahlsim]

RC coached the 00s Pistons and Pacers (Pacers in the "Malace at the Palace" season). He certainly knows a thing about enforcers and goons. And it´s not like the championship team lacked the "DAWG" nature. Stevenson had a bad reputation (similar to PatBev). Butler as well. Cardinal had two jobs. Hard fouls and 3-point shooting. Kidd was the original master of the sneaky dirty play. Nowadays it is CP3.

I don´t think RC is a fan of those kind of things. He would never openly encourage his team to go after a player or allow Harrell´s and Pat Bev´s chirping.

Personally I don´t want the Mavs to turn into a "dirty" team but more toughness wouldn´t hurt. A hard foul every now and then just to send a message. Especially against players that like to flop or try to draw fouls. A no layups/dunks/fastbreaks approach. Make them earn it on the FT line.
Just a more physical play style in general. Boxouts, defense, screens. Right now Luka is by far the most physical player on the team but he is also the one guy that cannot get in foul trouble. Guys like WCS or Powell don´t have to worry about foul trouble. Same for the rest of the bench guys.

I guess the Mavs added Johnson to fill that role but this isn´t the MMA. If a guy cannot get on the floor because he lacks bball skills the rest doesn´t matter. Wouldn´t mind another attempt to add a guy that brings all the intangibles (leadership, toughness...). Be it a small guard like McConnell (pesky waterbug guard that loves to full court press and doesn´t shy away from contact) or a wing/big like Tucker/Batum/Millsap.

All good.  I'm very aware that Coach Carlisle used to operate different strategically like pretty much all NBA coaches have had to evolve and adjust to the changes of the current game.  
In fact back in his Pacer days Rick Carlisle had Jermaine O'Neal who operated one of the best offensive Big man games in the league complete with *gasp* POST UPS and a powerful paint game.  That team worked the classic inside/out game very well under Coach C. 

What we're talking about now is the way his strategic approach is today which includes a coach that has said publicly "Let's face it, the Post up is dead.". 
I'm not arguing that point here at all either, Carlisle has a great high powered offense and right now seems to have a great roster mix that could really execute it well. 

As far as the Goon thing, I don't think we're necessarily talking about trying to injure someone, although that is certainly a possible when play gets too rough for too long. 
An enforcer can put a body on people, take some harder fouls and generally annoy or get under the skin of the other teams key players without any intent of causing an injury. 
Now there are also dirty and dangerous plays, which is really another category and discussion in and of itself.  I recall earlier this season when Lebron executed what many saw as a dirty play that injured and could have very seriously injured Joel Embiid.  He 2 handed shoved him in the air during a high flying dunk.  

Lebron however has no reputation as an enforcer let alone a dirty player so most media gave him a pass along with the fact that he pretty much owns the league.  
On the other hand there are occasionally some flat dirty and dangerous plays that seem quite deliberate.  
I would hate to think any NBA coach would send someone into the game with an intention of doing that.

[mavsluvr]

All good.  I'm very aware that Coach Carlisle used to operate different strategically like pretty much all NBA coaches have had to evolve and adjust to the changes of the current game.  
In fact back in his Pacer days Rick Carlisle had Jermaine O'Neal who operated one of the best offensive Big man games in the league complete with *gasp* POST UPS and a powerful paint game.  That team worked the classic inside/out game very well under Coach C. 

What we're talking about now is the way his strategic approach is today which includes a coach that has said publicly "Let's face it, the Post up is dead.". 
I'm not arguing that point here at all either, Carlisle has a great high powered offense and right now seems to have a great roster mix that could really execute it well. 

As far as the Goon thing, I don't think we're necessarily talking about trying to injure someone, although that is certainly a possible when play gets too rough for too long. 
An enforcer can put a body on people, take some harder fouls and generally annoy or get under the skin of the other teams key players without any intent of causing an injury. 
Now there are also dirty and dangerous plays, which is really another category and discussion in and of itself.  I recall earlier this season when Lebron executed what many saw as a dirty play that injured and could have very seriously injured Joel Embiid.  He 2 handed shoved him in the air during a high flying dunk.  

Lebron however has no reputation as an enforcer let alone a dirty player so most media gave him a pass along with the fact that he pretty much owns the league.  
On the other hand there are occasionally some flat dirty and dangerous plays that seem quite deliberate.  
I would hate to think any NBA coach would send someone into the game with an intention of doing that.

I think I get what u r saying, and thanks for the elaboration on the differences between an enforcer and a goon. Good stuff!

As far as whether an NBA coach would send a player into the game who intends to hurt someone, players aren't going to announce that they intend to hurt another player, even if that is exactly their intent. And unfortunately, I think coaches tend to turn their heads at such behavior if it is "working," or even tacitly encourage it.

[dirkfansince1998]

I think I get what u r saying, and thanks for the elaboration on the differences between an enforcer and a goon. Good stuff!

As far as whether an NBA coach would send a player into the game who intends to hurt someone, players aren't going to announce that they intend to hurt another player, even if that is exactly their intent. And unfortunately, I think coaches tend to turn their heads at such behavior if it is "working," or even tacitly encourage it.

Doc Rivers is probably the best example. His teams always had a bad reputation. Garnett, Posey, Perkins, Rondo, Powe on the Celtics. CP3, Matt Barnes, Stephen Jackson on the lob city Clippers. Last years Clippers. He obviously isn´t encouraging it in the media but when he is asked about it he always finds excuses.

[mavsluvr]

Doc Rivers is probably the best example. His teams always had a bad reputation. Garnett, Posey, Perkins, Rondo, Powe on the Celtics. CP3, Matt Barnes, Stephen Jackson on the lob city Clippers. Last years Clippers. He obviously isn´t encouraging it in the media but when he is asked about it he always finds excuses.

Yes, Doc Rivers would be a poster child for the dirty play culture. It hasn't been only him, of course. How many times did Pop countenance Bruce Bowen sticking his foot into a jump shooter's landing space? And I still remember Cuban telling Josh Howard to "slap the ball into [Bowen's] face" and promising to pay any fine Howard incurred as a result of the retaliation. We might say that Bowen had it coming, but a spiraling cycle of retaliations is far from ideal from a league point of view. 

Just to cite a couple of examples. 

Interestingly, at one point, the league seriously considered instituting prohibitive penalties for intentional and reckless fouls, and decided against it. Part of the reason was that a sizable segment of fans find the possibility of violence on the court titillating, and you got to give the people what they want.

[Hogmelon]

Interestingly, at one point, the league seriously considered instituting prohibitive penalties for intentional and reckless fouls, and decided against it. Part of the reason was that a sizable segment of fans find the possibility of violence on the court titillating, and you got to give the people what they want.

[mavsluvr]

lol

[Dahlsim]

I grew up with a solid dose of hockey in my sports mix. 
I remember it was always a debate whether the NHL would survive as a league without the fights.  

[mavsluvr]

I grew up with a solid dose of hockey in my sports mix. 
I remember it was always a debate whether the NHL would survive as a league without the fights.  

I had forgotten about that, lol. Laughing/notlaughing.