TAKE DAT WIT YOU 11/11

[mavsluvr]

That's really crazy that an NBA offense runs like that. The Mavs players here looks like sheep running around randomly (balkan saying). Well maybe even sheep do run together in a non-random pattern, as a team. I mean this is completely random what they are doing, nobody is on the same page. 

I mean, that is really bad. Essentially, they are running into one another clogging lanes. I noticed in previous games there would be 3 players right next to one another so often, easy for two defenders to cover the 3 Mavs players. The additional one could just go to Luka and double.

Luka's +/- might absolutely to large extent be due to this. There may be other things also, but this seems an obvious explanation.

Yeah, it almost doesn't matter what Luka does, if his teammates are just going to run around like chickens with their heads cut off (American saying, lol). 

Iztok also talked a little about the team's +/- numbers so far. Said they have had two blowouts, which really skew the data in a small sample size, to the point where it verges on being unusable. Of course,  that should even out as they play more games.

[Kammrath]

RE: Offensive Issues

Here is my big question:

If the issues are with the offensive system being changed and being poor/poorly executed, then why is the offense scoring 112.3 pts/100 poss. when JB plays and the offense only scoring 101.9 pts/100 poss. when Luka plays? 

Are they only running a new offense when Luka plays? 

Is JB picking up the new offense better than Luka (but isn't the new offense supposed to be from Igor and something Luka would be familiar with?)?

The offense when JB has played is good for 3rd in the NBA (GSW scores 112.3 pts/100 poss. this year).  The offense when Luka has played is good for 26th in the NBA (slightly better than NOP). 

Why the discrepancy IF the offensive system is to blame?


If the offensive system isn't to blame, you can point to the team shooting 26.6% on OPEN threes.

[fifteenth]

Why the discrepancy IF the offensive system is to blame?

Yeah, it almost doesn't matter what Luka does, if his teammates are just going to run around like chickens with their heads cut off (American saying, lol). 

[burekemde]

run around like chickens with their heads cut off (American saying, lol). 

That's the Kidd chicken offense lol.

Will be interesting to see what comes out of this long-term. Obviously not working out now, but great to see that they are trying to installing some new "concepts". Even if these concepts involve making them look like chickens running with heads cut off. In order to improve something from the RC system, I guess one has to try something different, so if there is any positive to say about this Kidd chicken offense, it is this. Although the offense in the RC system was quiet great, actually exceptional, and it was maybe defense one had to improve upon.

I fully agree with your other post also, that one shoubeld may design the system with the players you have available - Not the other way around.

Interestingly, i think we have played a better defense than in the past, sample size is small, but its encouraging at that end.

[sefant]

Did people ever criticize or question the defense so far. Feels like the defense is an even bigger problem than the offense so far. Luka + THJ + Powell isn't working.

- Mavs have 150 minutes of a 91.7 DefRtg with Luka off the floor (bench).
- best defense in the league is Warriors at 99.2 DefRtg.

- 350 minutes with Luka: 115.0 DefRtg.
- worst defense is Memphis with 112.4 DefRtg.

I mean the starters literally can't stop anyone so far.

[Kammrath]

- Mavs have 150 minutes of a 91.7 DefRtg with Luka off the floor (bench).
- best defense in the league is Warriors at 99.2 DefRtg.

- 350 minutes with Luka: 115.0 DefRtg.
- worst defense is Memphis with 112.4 DefRtg.

I have been beating this drum a LOT in the Luka-thread. This is a big deal.

[Kammrath]

@"fifteenth" so the teammates are cool when JB is on the court? But chickens without heads as soon as Luka is on the court? Is that what you are saying?

[fifteenth]

@fifteenth so the teammates are cool when JB is on the court? But chickens without heads as soon as Luka is on the court? Is that what you are saying?

I don't know. Just trying to sort through all this. The guy that did the nifty analysis and showed the clips of chickens with their heads cut off with Luka on the floor. Can he do the same with the Brunson unit? Are the particular folks playing with the Luka unit doing a better job of imitating chickens with their heads cut off than are the folks playing with Brunson? All I have at the moment are questions, guesses a bit of building angst.

[Thukydides]

@"fifteenth" so the teammates are cool when JB is on the court? But chickens without heads as soon as Luka is on the court? Is that what you are saying?

Luka is dealing with Powell and KP. Brunson finds a much better spacing. 

The defensive numbers are interesting. KP, Luka and Powell of the floor does wonders to the D. Not very surprising. I'm not ready to put it solely on Luka

[michaeltex]

Did people ever criticize or question the defense so far. Feels like the defense is an even bigger problem than the offense so far. Luka + THJ + Powell isn't working.

- Mavs have 150 minutes of a 91.7 DefRtg with Luka off the floor (bench).
- best defense in the league is Warriors at 99.2 DefRtg.

- 350 minutes with Luka: 115.0 DefRtg.
- worst defense is Memphis with 112.4 DefRtg.

I mean the starters literally can't stop anyone so far.

Where to go from here? Start better  defensive player(s)? Bullock instead of THJ? Maxi for DP? 

What is the overall defensive scheme? Tight M2M? Drop M2M? Zone?

Seems like RC would drop into a zone when things weren't going right, but I don't think that's a long term answer either. I thought Bullock, Frankie and S.Brown were brought in to provide defensive improvements. Seems a little uneven right now.

[mavsluvr]

I have been beating this drum a LOT in the Luka-thread.

You can say that again.

[burekemde]

@"fifteenth" so the teammates are cool when JB is on the court? But chickens without heads as soon as Luka is on the court? Is that what you are saying?

If the plays called in Luka offense are the ones that asks for chickens without heads, then yes. But I dont know, Im only saying it might be. It could also be JB executing that type of offense better, and it maybe does not suit Luka. But my guess would be that Kidd tries to install new concept in Lukas offense, not in the one of JB. It could also be that the players Luka plays with in Lukas offense, cant make the movements that the coaches ask for, while the one JB plays with can do that. Lots of variables like this.

[KillerLeft]

I think it's VERY possible, likely even, that two different approaches are being taken here, regarding Luka and Brunson.

Brunson came into the season as the backup PG for a team that had second unit scoring issues in the past. I think we've seen three, basic approaches to non-Luka minutes, so far: 

1) everyone space for Brunson to attack off of the dribble or run pnr
2) Everyone space for KP at the extended ft line
3) Everyone space for Boban in the post (you can tell they worked a lot on this one in camp, because they seem to understand techniques for beating a fronting defense, even, such as a pass to another perimeter guy for the sole purpose of creating a better post-pass angle)

I think it's likely that these approaches were communicated clearly, both in training camp, and during these games. They have been effective, to various extents (well, #1 and #3 have been) at various times. 

I think with Luka, it's POSSIBLE that they are trying to add more wrinkles to what he has done successfully in the past, and that his teammates and even Luka, himself, are simply struggling with their understanding of what to do, or WHEN to do WHAT, or whatever wording makes sense to you. 

I don't think ANYONE is saying that Luka is totally blameless. It's just really obvious that his level of play is at least partially connected to the team's understanding of the plan, and not JUST about him being slightly out of shape (though I agree that this is a factor).

[Kammrath]

Luka is dealing with Powell and KP. Brunson finds a much better spacing. 

KP+DP (78 mins) = 93.2 O, 111.1 D.

KP+DP+Luka (78 mins) = 93.2, 111.1 D.

KP+DP+JB (0 mins) = .......

Super interesting. DP+KP have ONLY played alongside Luka this year. This is only 78 minutes, so it doesn't explain everything, but this is a good find. Nice call @"Thukydides"

[Kammrath]

@"KillerLeft" let's watch this in the game tonight. Tell me if you notice clear differences in the offensive system when JB plays. I am intrigued by this.

[Kammrath]

KP+DP (78 mins) = 93.2 O, 111.1 D.

KP+DP+Luka (78 mins) = 93.2, 111.1 D.

KP+DP+JB (0 mins) = .......

Super interesting. DP+KP have ONLY played alongside Luka this year. This is only 78 minutes, so it doesn't explain everything, but this is a good find. Nice call @Thukydides

I think I saw somewhere that the Mavs are playing DP with KP to "protect him" and try to not expose him to all the beating that a big takes. 

Well, it may be protecting KP's body some....but man it is KILLING the team right now.

[michaeltex]

KP+DP (78 mins) = 93.2 O, 111.1 D.

KP+DP+Luka (78 mins) = 93.2, 111.1 D.

KP+DP+JB (0 mins) = .......

Super interesting. DP+KP have ONLY played alongside Luka this year. This is only 78 minutes, so it doesn't explain everything, but this is a good find. Nice call @"Thukydides"

Not letting Luka's individual performance slide, but appears the spacing issues highlighted elsewhere (KP posting as Luka/DP PnR) are contributing to the negative here (-17.9)?

[fifteenth]

I think it's VERY possible, likely even, that two different approaches are being taken here, regarding Luka and Brunson.

Brunson came into the season as the backup PG for a team that had second unit scoring issues in the past. I think we've seen three, basic approaches to non-Luka minutes, so far: 

1) everyone space for Brunson to attack off of the dribble or run pnr
2) Everyone space for KP at the extended ft line
3) Everyone space for Boban in the post (you can tell they worked a lot on this one in camp, because they seem to understand techniques for beating a fronting defense, even, such as a pass to another perimeter guy for the sole purpose of creating a better post-pass angle)

I think it's likely that these approaches were communicated clearly, both in training camp, and during these games. They have been effective, to various extents (well, #1 and #3 have been) at various times. 

I think with Luka, it's POSSIBLE that they are trying to add more wrinkles to what he has done successfully in the past, and that his teammates and even Luka, himself, are simply struggling with their understanding of what to do, or WHEN to do WHAT, or whatever wording makes sense to you. 

I don't think ANYONE is saying that Luka is totally blameless. It's just really obvious that his level of play is at least partially connected to the team's understanding of the plan, and not JUST about him being slightly out of shape (though I agree that this is a factor).

I like that we're all throwing out possibilities. But the above is my leader in the clubhouse.

[Kammrath]

I like that we're all throwing out possibilities. But the above is my leader in the clubhouse.

It was a very astute take by @"KillerLeft".

[Kammrath]

Not letting Luka's individual performance slide, but appears the spacing issues highlighted elsewhere (KP posting as Luka/DP PnR) are contributing to the negative here (-17.9)?

Probably along with missed open shots (which are happening across the board).