TAKE DAT WIT YOU 11/11

[Thukydides]

https://twitter.com/Velleius_NBA/status/...35496?s=20

https://twitter.com/Velleius_NBA/status/...92871?s=20

https://twitter.com/Velleius_NBA/status/...89126?s=20

I tweeted about this in October.  Mavs are doomed with Kidd

[Kammrath]

I don't remember that being suggested. 

More like, they will assess where they are after 20-25 games, and see which of the new experiments they are trying they want to continue with, modify, or abandon. It is not expected that every experiment will survive the assessment. 

It seemed to me that Nico suggested that by saying they would evaluate "who we are" at 20-25 games when he was asked directly about Jalen Brunson's contract situation. I cannot figure why else he would talk about that when asked about JB's contract.

[Thukydides]

Guys, talking about players and trades is completely the wrong approach. We have a decent team, KP looks solid at times. Bullock will be fine, Brunson is emerging. Clearly the best Mavs team in years. We just have an idiot steering the ship

[mavsluvr]

It seemed to me that Nico suggested that by saying they would evaluate "who we are" at 20-25 games when he was asked directly about Jalen Brunson's contract situation. I cannot figure why else he would talk about that when asked about JB's contract.

I would imagine that JB and the things they are trying with him will be part of the assessment.

[fifteenth]

Guys, talking about players and trades is completely the wrong approach. We have a decent team, KP looks solid at times. Bullock will be fine, Brunson is emerging. Clearly the best Mavs team in years. We just have an idiot steering the ship

Is Mak your burner account? 

[BackToSquareOne]

There are some pretty spectacularly bad shooting stats, particularly from 3pt and FT, all the way through apart from Timmy and JB. If those tick up things look rosier.

[Thukydides]

Is Mak your burner account? 

I loved at my screen reading this. That was a good one . I´m usually realistic, but I understand that my stance sounds pessimistic, but this situation also is super bad. Mavs are seriously in danger to not make the playoffs this year, if you ask me.

And no, the bad shooting has nothing to do with it. THJ is back to his NYC years and guess what, the reason is he is coached by an equally bad coach. #carlislemattered (yes I know that RC needed to be substituted. Still going from RC to Kidd offensively is the downgrade of all downgrades)

[chaparral]

If trades do take place to bring in guys that fit Kidd's system, who are the types of players?  Is a Siakam type player a fit w/KP at C.  Would M.Turner work better with KP?  Who would be a Kidd type SF and SG?

And I know the answer to this question is "Mark Cuban" but w/31 mil this past offseason why didn't we get players to play Kidd's system?

[Thukydides]

There is one main problem: KP doesn't want to be a floor spacer. So we can't play five out, which arguably is our most efficient offense. This would be the premium solution. (A)

(B) is having KP set screens with shooters all around. This should be the absolute baseline, but we hardly use it. I suppose, it's because KP doesn't want to.

© would be KP clogging the paint with inefficient post ups. That's our best offense so far, as we almost never so A and B too rarely.

Instead, we do (D) playing two bigs, letting Powell screen and posting KP up at the same time (starting line up). 

These choices stop Luka from getting to the rim and the shooters can't find a rhythm, as they must take many bad shots between the fewer good ones(especially THJ). That's the sad story and Kidd has to be blamed.

[Mapka]

There is one main problem: KP doesn't want to be a floor spacer. So we can't play five out, which arguably is our most efficient offense. This would be the premium solution. (A)

(B) is having KP set screens with shooters all around. This should be the absolute baseline, but we hardly use it. I suppose, it's because KP doesn't want to.

© would be KP clogging the paint with inefficient post ups. That's our best offense so far, as we almost never so A and B too rarely.

Instead, we so (D) playing two bigs, letting Powell screen and posting KP up at the same time (starting line up). 

These choices stop Luka from getting to the rim and the shooters can't find a rhythm, as they must take many bad shots between the fewer good ones(especially THJ). That's the sad story and Kidd has to be blamed.

Or we are just down a starter/sixth man level ballhandler-playmaker.

KP seems to be very fine to space out any other play and take some deep threes if he is disrespected there.

[Thukydides]

Or we are just down a starter/sixth man level ballhandler-playmaker.

KP seems to be very fine to space out any other play and take some deep threes if he is disrespected there.

That´s how he was used against the Clippers. You think he was happy? 

In my eyes a sixth man level ballhandler would do nothing for this team. The scheme issues are too severe.

[michaeltex]

@"fifteenth" I'd say it's beyond obvious that KP is part of the problem below, but what's truly skull-numbing is that NONE of the players on court seem to be on the same page.

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...10978?s=20

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...40420?s=20

https://twitter.com/iztok_franko/status/...72994?s=20

Thanks for posting those, KL. They really illustrate a basic problem with the current offense that we were seeing in the first couple of games. So to say DAL is 7-4 in spite of this disfunction is pretty good.

Watching the clips it seems like they want to do everything on the same play, PnR with Luka & DP, low post KP, DFS & THJ placed for corner 3s. So once Luka and DP start their PnR, KP immediately posts then two dribbles and all 10 players are below the FT line. I know corner 3s are the most effective, but the current system doesn't allow for that unless you make an early pass to the shooter before the sight lines get obscured. As the action moves toward the basket, nobody is rotating out top for a bail out. THJ is pretty good at that spot. You can see in one of the clips that Luka expects someone to be on top as DP runs away and THJ has to rescue the pass. 

This offense can't continue with 2 guys run to the corners while 3 guys run to the basket, can it?

I also want to observe that RCs offense was not that bad. Yes, you often lived and died by 3pt shots, but scoring wasn't really the issue. Defense was the Achilles heel as the team really couldn't defend well when the shooting went cold. That's why everyone wanted 3&D upgrades this offseason. This team was built for the 5 out PnR and whatever this is doesn't fit.

[DanSchwartzgan]

Thanks for posting those, KL. They really illustrate a basic problem with the current offense that we were seeing in the first couple of games. So to say DAL is 7-4 in spite of this disfunction is pretty good.

Watching the clips it seems like they want to do everything on the same play, PnR with Luka & DP, low post KP, DFS & THJ placed for corner 3s. So once Luka and DP start their PnR, KP immediately posts then two dribbles and all 10 players are below the FT line. I know corner 3s are the most effective, but the current system doesn't allow for that unless you make an early pass to the shooter before the sight lines get obscured. As the action moves toward the basket, nobody is rotating out top for a bail out. THJ is pretty good at that spot. You can see in one of the clips that Luka expects someone to be on top as DP runs away and THJ has to rescue the pass. 

This offense can't continue with 2 guys run to the corners while 3 guys run to the basket, can it?
 

This can't be by design unless the design is to let players do what they wish to do.  KP crushes Powell's chance at a lob.  Powell and KP crush Luka's chance at a play at the rim.  Powell crushes KP's (slim) chance at a post basket.  You can't really blame KP and Powell if they are given the freedom to do what they (think) the do best.  But it will never work unless the options off of this kind of action are more clearly delineated.

This is why I've been saying Maxi needs to start and be the first player out at the six minute mark.  From there you get some KP and later Powell as solo big (against reserves) with Brunson.  Then, when Luka returns Maxi comes back.  You can finish halves however you wish, but there is a version of this that holds down the minutes for both KP and Maxi as DFS would get some minutes in the 4/5 rotation when we play single big.

[burekemde]

Thanks for posting those, KL. They really illustrate a basic problem with the current offense that we were seeing in the first couple of games. So to say DAL is 7-4 in spite of this disfunction is pretty good.

Watching the clips it seems like they want to do everything on the same play, PnR with Luka & DP, low post KP, DFS & THJ placed for corner 3s. So once Luka and DP start their PnR, KP immediately posts then two dribbles and all 10 players are below the FT line. I know corner 3s are the most effective, but the current system doesn't allow for that unless you make an early pass to the shooter before the sight lines get obscured. As the action moves toward the basket, nobody is rotating out top for a bail out. THJ is pretty good at that spot. You can see in one of the clips that Luka expects someone to be on top as DP runs away and THJ has to rescue the pass. 

This offense can't continue with 2 guys run to the corners while 3 guys run to the basket, can it?

I also want to observe that RCs offense was not that bad. Yes, you often lived and died by 3pt shots, but scoring wasn't really the issue. Defense was the Achilles heel as the team really couldn't defend well when the shooting went cold. That's why everyone wanted 3&D upgrades this offseason. This team was built for the 5 out PnR and whatever this is doesn't fit.

This is the main reason. Mavs are clogging lanes for Mavs. It makes no sense really. I am not sure what Kidd is trying, but it doesn't work.

[mavsluvr]

Thanks for posting those, KL. They really illustrate a basic problem with the current offense that we were seeing in the first couple of games. So to say DAL is 7-4 in spite of this disfunction is pretty good.

Watching the clips it seems like they want to do everything on the same play, PnR with Luka & DP, low post KP, DFS & THJ placed for corner 3s. So once Luka and DP start their PnR, KP immediately posts then two dribbles and all 10 players are below the FT line. I know corner 3s are the most effective, but the current system doesn't allow for that unless you make an early pass to the shooter before the sight lines get obscured. As the action moves toward the basket, nobody is rotating out top for a bail out. THJ is pretty good at that spot. You can see in one of the clips that Luka expects someone to be on top as DP runs away and THJ has to rescue the pass. 

This offense can't continue with 2 guys run to the corners while 3 guys run to the basket, can it?

I also want to observe that RCs offense was not that bad. Yes, you often lived and died by 3pt shots, but scoring wasn't really the issue. Defense was the Achilles heel as the team really couldn't defend well when the shooting went cold. That's why everyone wanted 3&D upgrades this offseason. This team was built for the 5 out PnR and whatever this is doesn't fit.

Good summary. 

I think Itztok has really put the finger on the offense's worst problems. Either the plan is terrible, or there is no plan, or the players don't understand the plan and/or can't execute it. 

These guys are just fumbling all over each other, getting in each other's way, running to spots that don't make any sense, taking action that makes things worse, taking shots when they shouldn't, not taking them when they should. With this degree of confusion and chaos on the floor, it seems to me that the coaching staff has to bear at least a portion of the responsibility.

[michaeltex]

It's got to be affecting Luka, isn't it? He's played long enough and at high enough competitive levels that he knows what's going to happen, doesn't he? If he's trying to be a good soldier and do what the coach asks, but knows through past experience and current team performance that it's just not going to work, wouldn't he be frustrated and de-motivated?

How many of us have gotten a new boss who doesn't really get how the current processes work but thinks he has a better way, but we know it's going to have problems and have to bear with it until he learns things aren't working?

At some point, don't you stop worrying about keeping KP happy and worry about keeping Luka happy?

[fifteenth]

I also want to observe that RCs offense was not that bad.

That's an understatement!!

[fifteenth]

This is why I've been saying Maxi needs to start and be the first player out at the six minute mark. 

This would help. But even then I think the coaches need to help the players understand better what to do. I can't imagine that "do what you want" would eventually, naturally, just evolve into effective offense. Even the flow offense has principles and actions to follow, rather than just "do what you want". 

So have the coaches designed a poor offense, are they really saying "do what you want", are they doing a poor job of teaching their system, or is this a reasonable amount of time for a team to take for udnerstanding a new offense?

---

Either the plan is terrible, or there is no plan, or the players don't understand the plan and/or can't execute it. 

LOL!!!! Second time in five minutes that if I had read your post I could have just liked your post rather than posting. :-)

[burekemde]

@"fifteenth" I'd say it's beyond obvious that KP is part of the problem below, but what's truly skull-numbing is that NONE of the players on court seem to be on the same page.

That's really crazy that an NBA offense runs like that. The Mavs players here looks like sheep running around randomly (balkan saying). Well maybe even sheep do run together in a non-random pattern, as a team. I mean this is completely random what they are doing, nobody is on the same page.

I mean, that is really bad. Essentially, they are running into one another clogging lanes. I noticed in previous games there would be 3 players right next to one another so often, easy for two defenders to cover the 3 Mavs players. The additional one could just go to Luka and double.

Luka's +/- might absolutely to large extent be due to this. There may be other things also, but this seems an obvious explanation.

[mavsluvr]

This would help. But even then I think the coaches need to help the players understand better what to do. I can't imagine that "do what you want" would eventually, naturally, just evolve into effective offense. Even the flow offense has principles and actions to follow, rather than just "do what you want". 

So have the coaches designed a poor offense, are they really saying "do what you want", are they doing a poor job of teaching their system, or is this a reasonable amount of time for a team to take for udnerstanding a new offense?

---

LOL!!!! Second time in five minutes that if I had read your post I could have just liked your post rather than posting. :-)

Well, then we wouldn't have had the great pleasure of hearing from you, fif. 

I was listening to some comments about this from Iztok Franko, who I think is a great x's-and-o's observer and who has some familiarity with European basketball, as well as American. 

He puts aside for the moment the issue that the players don't know what to do, since that might be only temporary. Then says he doesn't disagree with the decision to diversify the offense, and understands why they are doing it, but thinks they just don't have the players who are capable of making the new offense sing. 

As an example, he uses DFS. When the Mavs decided they needed another offensive focus and ball handler, trying to make DFS into that was a poor choice, from Iztok's point of view. They would be better off acquiring someone who is well-suited to do the job required. 

Not really a revelation, but another suggestion that you can't just show up at a company of fishermen, announce that they're now going to be accountants, and expect anything good to happen. If you want to have an accounting business, hire some accountants.